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73 winchester timing problem


Currahee
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You would tell by observing the relationship between the bolt and the carrier or the ammo in the carrier. What you want to see there is subject to debate. However, if it’s too advanced, you’ll have the bolt crashing into the ammo or the carrier. If it’s too retarded, you’ll likely be seeing issues with unreliable ejection. 

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If the timing is way off, the gun would not cycle, it would jam, as in bolt and lifter being out of time they will hit each other during cycling. Ejecting live rounds is usually a shooter timing problem. Light strikes, what primers are you using? Possibly you need a new or longer firing pin. Longhunter has longer firing pins. What springs are you using? Lots of things can cause light strikes, timing isn't one of them.

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It would be rare to do something to get a gun that runs right out of time.  Unless you do as I did, and try several times to run a round in the chamber with a laser training cartridge already in the chamber.   Then you bend the carrier arm.  That needs a new arm and fitting into place.  

To check, you do it the same way you check timing on a short stroke kit. 
slide the dust cover back, holding it horizontal and run the bolt back, and watch the carrier for interference with the bolt. Run the bolt forward and make sure the bolt and carrier are clearing each other.   Then also do this with the gun at a 45 degree angle up.   (This changes the geometry slightly, and makes sure you have everything in time) 

 

also check you springs on the carrier arm and the lever.  Too loose, and it’ll not get the carrier down in time.  
 

jacking out rounds I found to be operator error running the lever too fast and forgetting to pull the trigger.  

 

doubling shouldn’t happen. There isn’t space in the carrier to hold two.   You didn’t note ammo, or OAL.   Does it do it with all ammo, or factory ammo, or different lengths?   
 

the light pin hits sounds like you need to tighten the hammer spring down, or adjust the tension screw, or your firing pin is all gunky.  So check the firing pin, spring, and inside the bolt to make sure it’s not full of crud.  
 

hope this helps some.   This has been what I’ve seen or done to myself.  
 

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19 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You'll hear a knocking sound.

 

Oh man, beat me to it.

I was going to ask something about running on after it was shut off, but I don't know how many people would get that anymore. 

Kudos to you Sir. 

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1 minute ago, Hendo said:

Oh man, beat me to it.

I was going to ask something about running on after it was shut off, but I don't know how many people would get that anymore. 

Kudos to you Sir. 

Easy to fix.  Put it in gear, foot on the brake, pop the clutch.  She'll shut down.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Easy to fix.  Put it in gear, foot on the brake, pop the clutch.  She'll shut down.

Must be a chevy LOL

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Ejecting live rounds is most often caused by trying to cycle the gun faster than you are proficient in getting the action closed, then trigger pulled, then lever opened.

 

Often 3rd step before 2nd step.  This WILL sometimes leave light firing pin hits on the primers because the hammer falls when a slight gap has opened between the cartridge rim and the chamber breech (cartridge is held only by the extractor hook, and cartridge absorbs much of the impact of the firing pin instead of focusing all the impact into the primer).

 

You don't fix that with mechanical tuning of the gun.  You fix that with solid practice, slowly building up your speed.   Much of that will have to happen with live ammo on a practice range.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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2 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Timing does not/can not cause light hit issues. You have a different problem. 

Good to see you back, Mike.

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Light hits mean too light of a hammer strike. It needs tightening, jacking out rounds is possibly you working it too fast. It happens to eveyone now and then.

 

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* Clean the magazine tube

* Put 5 rounds in the magazine

* Give the rifle to an experienced shooter and fire the 5 rounds

* Come back to Wire and tell us EXACTLY what happened when the experienced shooter shot the 5 rounds ……

Edited by John Boy
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Sounds like it's the jerk on the trigger/lever. 

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Howdy Curahee.  A few random thoughts.  Have you possibly had an OOB incident recently?  That can bend some stuff and change timing.  Other stuff that causes light strikes: high primers.  Hard primers.   Have you changed primers recently?  Have things been going well, then suddenly started happening?  Are you pushing yourself on speed?   How many times does this happen during a match, like almost every stage or once/twice during the match?  On the ejected rounds with light hits, how light?  Like, barely touched it, or just not quite enough to set it off?  How do those light strikes look compared to the fired primers?  If not too much difference then it could be you are right on the edge of reliability, and tightening the strain screw or other ideas above for a heavier hit would be advised. 

42 minutes ago, John Boy said:

...; Give the rifle to an experienced shooter and fire the 5 rounds...

That may be the best idea, considering how easy it is for operator error to cause this.  Although it might take more than 5 rounds, depending.  I would take a box of ammo and have the experienced shooter, after getting used to the feel of your gun, shoot enough of them to prove or disprove to your satisfaction that it is you or the gun, then go from there.  Good luck!  

 

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Just a few thoughts:

 

You did not mention if you've experienced out of battery discharges--even very minor ones-- either past or present.   They can be a strong indication, or even the cause of a bent lever or lifter.  

 

You also did not mention if the "jacked out" rounds' primers are struck.  (Are these the light strikes that you referred to?)

 

Cycle the action s-l-o-w-l-y, while watching the bolt- carrier juxtaposition.  If there are no collisions or rubs, and the carrier properly aligns with the chamber at the top of its stroke, then timing is probably not the problem.

 

Many times, multiple jacked out rounds are nothing more than pilot error, trying to go too fast.   If your mainspring is adjusted very lightly, it is possible your hammer drop may be sluggish, striking the primer after you have begun to lever the bolt open for the next round.  That can cause lightly struck jacked out rounds.  Tightening the hammer spring adjustment will speed up the hammer drop and possibly solve the problem.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

How much does a cartridge stop for a ‘73 cost. 

They’re free, ‘cuz the 73 don’t have no cartridge stops.  http://marauder.homestead.com/files/73Carbine.htm

D9384584-8455-4F59-8421-35C9178E4670.jpeg

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In my younger years just starting SASS shooting..  I was getting faster and faster.. (and yeah.. I've slowed back down now) I was finally jacking out live rounds.. A very experienced shooter (Spur) told me I am probably out running the hammer fall.. I tighten up the hammer spring.. problem was gone.. just sayin'

Edited by Rance - SASS # 54090
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my problem with jacking rounds is overexuberance with operating the action and not concentrating on shooting my targets , you gotta pull the trigger every time or you jack an unfired round ...........ive read of this with service men -under fire0 in the civil war and revolutionary war , not so much in the two world wars , but ....

we gewt excited and our muscles work the mechanical action without the mental lock in of the target particularly when counting the targets in proper sequence i think we can get a disconnect , reloading on the clock costs you time , if like me you dont care , but im shooting for fun , if your shooting for time to win ---it costs you a lot 

 

im not bsaying that the solutions above might not help - they might very well  , it just seems to me that mechanics of operation needs to mesh with aiming and hitting the target - yes i shoot slower , im not recommending it but if your overrunning your guns just maybe till your brain catches up lt might help to slow down ?  

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Ed, Thanks.  Shows that not owning a 73 rifle shows I don’t have the parts knowledge in memory.

This be …guess operator issue

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In my experience, if the hammer spring is adjusted for sufficient pressure, a light strikes is the holding of the lever until the hammer has fallen. There is a time lag between the trigger releasing the hammer and the hammer hitting the primer. IOW, lock time. If the hammer spring is too light, lock time may be slow enough that you are already opening the lever before the rifle has fired. It's not hard to overrun your equipment. 

 

First you get smooth, then you get fast. Two separate movements, pull the trigger, then move the hand. I'll never be fast, so I work on smooth. I don't move until the bullet hits the target. Once that muscle memory is entrenched the report will signal your brain to operate the lever. That is how smooth works, I don't have any experience with smooth and fast. I've experience fast without smooth, and that is not good.

 

http://cowboysandindianstore.com/index.php?main_page=page_3&zenid=30c8s4st2k6f5a0bsh2gn54ra4

 

Best timing instructions for the nimrod that I've found. 

 

BB 

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