Native American question

[Widder, SASS #59054]

How (or why) did Native Americans (Indians) manage to have so many different

tribes, languages, etc..... ?

 

If they were all Native to this part of the world, why were there Mohicans, Chipawa, Apaches,

Commanches, Cherokee, Seminole, etc..... ?

 

..........Widder

 

[Joeronimo Caffiend]

Same reason(s) that Danes, Norwegians, and Swedes and Icelanders(?) speak different languages is my final answer Regis.

[J-BAR #18287]

They didn’t travel much until Spaniards re- introduced the horse to North and Central America.  So the tribes were more isolated geographically during their early history.

[Tom Bullweed]

In Pope and Young's book on Ishi, Last of the Yani, they detail how, within the tribe, there was a general language spoken by all plus a men's only language.  This tribe was very primitive and very poor compared to what most of us think of as native Americans.

Very good read about how sporting archery began.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

If you look at their languages, you'll discover that they couldn't talk to each other a whole lot either.  Based on language groupings alone (the core of a language group representing a different migration group), there had to have been a line of tribes moving over the land bridge.

 

In the South East, the 5 Civilized Tribes are even more peculiar.  Many of the modern Southeastern tribes are recent immigrants (the Cherokee- their language is in the same language group as the Iroquois) or relatively recent creations.  When the Mound Builder civilization collapsed, new tribes formed.  About the time they started getting off of the ground and building a successor to the Mound Builders, De Soto and the rest of the Conquistadors of his era came through with war and disease.  Considering that the estimates are that European disease killed between 60 and 90% of the people in the Americas after contact was made, a second wave of new deseases just when things were getting back together was devastating.  The Creeks, Choctaws, .... are the results of the recovery from that wave of disease.  Except for the Seminole.  They were formed a little later by Creeks that broke away and moved south.

[Rye Miles #13621]

They were also fighting each other, waaaay before the evil white man got here!!

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

And here I thought they all patted birds on the head.

Best

CR

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

And here I thought they all patted birds on the head.

Best

CR

 

...and tiptoed thru the tulips together

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

...and tiptoed thru the tulips together

Except for those evil, evil Pawnee (Dances With Wolves).....they were just tacky!

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

They were also fighting each other, waaaay before the evil white man got here!!

There are Indian languages where the word for 'stranger' and 'enemy' are the same.

 

In 1491, if there were a dozen males over the age of 12 in the Western Hemisphere that wouldn't belly crawl for a week for the chance to slit ypur throat for what you have in your pockets, I'd be surprised the number was that high.  Anybody not of the tribe was fair game.

 

The names we use for the tribes aren't normally the same ones that they call themselves.  Most keep with the theme of identifying themselves as 'The People', Real People, etc.... inferring that nobody else is really human.  Much of the warfare was raid, counter raid, payback for the counter raid, payback for the payback,....  It was literally 'us' versus 'them' and 'us' defined as a really small group.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

1 hour ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

There are Indian languages where the word for 'stranger' and 'enemy' are the same.

 

In 1491, if there were a dozen males over the age of 12 in the Western Hemisphere that wouldn't belly crawl for a week for the chance to slit ypur throat for what you have in your pockets, I'd be surprised the number was that high.  Anybody not of the tribe was fair game.

 

The names we use for the tribes aren't normally the same ones that they call themselves.  Most keep with the theme of identifying themselves as 'The People', Real People, etc.... inferring that nobody else is really human.  Much of the warfare was raid, counter raid, payback for the counter raid, payback for the payback,....  It was literally 'us' versus 'them' and 'us' defined as a really small group.

They eagerly sought ways to pillage, murder,and rape those of other tribes.  It was almost a game but how else could you gain honors and wealth if not become a mighty warrior.   By todays standards, if they could be applied, would readily label nearly all tribes as complete racists.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Not only are there many American Indian languages, many language groups are entirely different, having no relationship to one another at all. Some belong to larger groups, some don't. One of the big examples is Athabascan, a Canadian language grouping. Apaches and Navajo speak Athabascan languages, one of the indicators that they migrated down from much farther north in relatively recent times (a few centuries).

 

The surprising thing would be if they all spoke similar languages.

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

Just ask Elizabeth Warren!

 

 

[Alpo]

6 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

The surprising thing would be if they all spoke similar languages

 You mean they don't all speak Indian??

[Utah Bob #35998]

7 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

There are Indian languages where the word for 'stranger' and 'enemy' are the same.

 

In 1491, if there were a dozen males over the age of 12 in the Western Hemisphere that wouldn't belly crawl for a week for the chance to slit ypur throat for what you have in your pockets, I'd be surprised the number was that high.  Anybody not of the tribe was fair game.

 

The names we use for the tribes aren't normally the same ones that they call themselves.  Most keep with the theme of identifying themselves as 'The People', Real People, etc.... inferring that nobody else is really human.  Much of the warfare was raid, counter raid, payback for the counter raid, payback for the payback,....  It was literally 'us' versus 'them' and 'us' defined as a really small group.

You characterization of the native tribes is somewhat less than historically correct. I have studied North American indigenous native cultures for decades. While intertribal warfare certainly existed, the continent contained more basically peaceful tribes than aggressive ones. There were major trade routes from Canada to Mexico and a number of advanced civilizations with laws, religion, art, and morals that would rival the ”advanced” European societies.

 

If this were not the case every white explorer who stepped on the beach would have had their throats slit.

[watab kid]

3 hours ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Just ask Elizabeth Warren!

 

 

there ya go - get it straight from the one definitive expert on the subject , she would never lie to you ............................................

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

On 5/23/2021 at 3:54 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

How (or why) did Native Americans (Indians) manage to have so many different

tribes, languages, etc..... ?

 

If they were all Native to this part of the world, why were there Mohicans, Chipawa, Apaches,

Commanches, Cherokee, Seminole, etc..... ?

 

..........Widder

 

Hi there Widder...Same thing in Australia mate, different  communities with similar but not the same dialect but all on the same page with what they WANT ' !..nowadays most speak some form of english.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I just read an a interesting article about Indians and horses. We all "assume" they got horses from the Spanish explorers. But archaeologists and zoologists say thats not the case. Three was a horse breed in the Americas that the natives had domesticated. And using history and logic the Spaniards rode Geldings to avoid the hassles of studs and mares. Lost Spanish horses would not have been able to breed and multiply at the rate needed to provide the 1,000's of horses found throughout the plains.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Sure, it was just a big coincidence that American Indian horse culture arose only after Spanish settlement of America!

 

Would be interesting to see that evidence. And yes, it's understood that horses evolved in North America-- a little earlier.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

1 hour ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Would be interesting to see that evidence.

Here you go. One of many narratives about horses pre-spaniards

https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/yes-world-there-were-horses-in-native-culture-before-the-settlers-came#:~:text=Columbus didn't introduce them,of horses brought from overseas.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

PLUS..... 'neigh' and 'neighing' isn't a spanish word.

 

..........Widder

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Right, and as she says, Indians were hunting mastodons in North America 130,000 years ago....

 

The bottom line is that the narrative that the horse was brought by the Spaniards is just white colonialist propaganda.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

8 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Right, and as she says, Indians were hunting mastodons in North America 130,000 years ago....

 

The bottom line is that the narrative that the horse was brought by the Spaniards is just white colonialist propaganda.

She also appears to have an agenda in regards to wild horses and the Indigenous Species Act.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

16 minutes ago, Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 said:

She also appears to have an agenda in regards to wild horses and the Indigenous Species Act.

Good for her.  People seem to have this thing about wild horses. As in what good are they?  They were here long before us.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Just one incident of horses being dropped off by the Spanish.

https://www.chincoteague.com/ponies.html

.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

6 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Good for her.  People seem to have this thing about wild horses. As in what good are they?  They were here long before us.

I’d like to see more serious research on that.....

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

13 hours ago, Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 said:

I’d like to see more serious research on that.....

Then do as I did. Google it. That was the first article/paper of many listed on the subject.

[Tom Bullweed]

Read Genesis 11:1-9, especially in light of towers (pyramids built to deities) existing around the world and verse 9 that says that languages were mixed throughout the world.  Egypt, Southeast Asia, Mexico, Central America, the Mound in Marietta Ohio, Indian Mound near Rockingham NC, and mounds throughout Europe are just the common ones that we know.

Hmmm...

[punxsutawneypete]

On 5/23/2021 at 8:32 AM, Tom Bullweed said:

In Pope and Young's book on Ishi, Last of the Yani, they detail how, within the tribe, there was a general language spoken by all plus a men's only language.  This tribe was very primitive and very poor compared to what most of us think of as native Americans.

Very good read about how sporting archery began.

 

My dad gave me that book and I read it many years ago.  I wonder if it is still available.  Now that you've mentioned it I'd like to read it again.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Cattle were domesticated about ten thousand years ago.  It is said that native Americans are lactose intolerant and reckoning is that the groups who migrated to the American continents began their move before the domestication of cattle.