Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

That's not of concern to me. They deserve their rewards. However, the corporation itself should be responsible for the type of expenditures referenced earlier.

That's what I meant. It's also what I meant when I asked what are we getting back for our investment in SASS. I am a Moose member. For my dues I get a clubhouse, a shooting range, cheap beer and meals. And a swimming pool. Plus privileges all over the country for 75 dollars a year. That's a good value.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well dang, let me get some of that free Labor. Need to develope some promotional materials... But sorry, no revenue sharing.

 

Phantom

 

Sorry I have no experience with marketing or graphic design, be glad to help with your web site if you need it though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Let me address one point that seems to be confusing some.

We are COWBOY.  Period.

When I say EVERYTHING should be on the table for discussion - that should be clear that means EVERYTHING within and under the purview of COWBOY.

 

Using Possums example - when Coke changed their formula; they continued making a brown sugary soft drink.  It was a lesser quality brown sugary soft drink, but a soft drink nonetheless.

They did not stop making soft drinks and start making lawn darts.

 

No one (at least not me and no one I have seen) is advocating SASS becomes trap shooting or IPSC - adds semi autos and red dot sights - or starts being competitive lawn darts.

 

I would fight vehemently SASS ceasing to be cowboy.

 

Implying "everything on the table" means a desire to do away with "cowboy" is (in my opinion) being deliberately misleading and counter productive to open dialogue.

 

Creeker, you are the one being misleading by using gross exaggerations.  We weren't talking about changing the game into something totally different and that's not what Coke did.  They changed their formula only slightly, but that change made a huge difference in reducing the products desirability.  Again, I'm not against some changes (some are inevitable and some are desirable), however, we HAVE to be very careful with what we modify.  Can we at least agree on that?

 

Our sport's appeal is largely cultural.  We will not ever have large numbers of minorities as members and it would be a waste of effort to try to bring in people who have no cultural history of (for lack of a better term) playing cowboys and indians.

 

I think we need to establish what we truly love about CAS, besides the wonderful people, and promote that to our target audience.

 

Possum

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2020 at 2:24 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Let me get this straight... The future of SASS is focusing on those that are aging...or don't have money.

 

Got it!

 

Oh, and let us all close our eyes and sing lalalalalala, don't want know who the overall winners are lalalalalala...

 

Wonderful.

Dude I missed reading your replies, glad to see you getting after it again :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2020 at 7:58 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

...The only equipment change of any consequence that has occurred is early when the 2nd pistol was added to the game...

 

Not strictly true.  Used to be that you tricked out a Ruger or Colt by changing the main spring.  And you didn't really touch the long gun or shotgun at all.  Now a days.  You pretty much add $300+ to each gun to get them up to competition speed (sometimes a LOT more) . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

Not strictly true.  Used to be that you tricked out a Ruger or Colt by changing the main spring.  And you didn't really touch the long gun or shotgun at all.  Now a days.  You pretty much add $300+ to each gun to get them up to competition speed (sometimes a LOT more) . 

I understand your point but there is a difference.

 

One is a personal choice made to "better" your equipment and/ or performance - it is not required to participate in the game.

 

Mandating or changing the type/ or quantity of firearms required is a change to the game.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I understand your point but there is a difference.

 

One is a personal choice made to "better" your equipment and/ or performance - it is not required to participate in the game.

 

Mandating or changing the type/ or quantity of firearms required is a change to the game.

 

 

You could choose to play with just one Pistol and accept the misses too.  But IF you want to do well you wouldn't

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

 

Creeker, you are the one being misleading by using gross exaggerations.  We weren't talking about changing the game into something totally different and that's not what Coke did.  They changed their formula only slightly, but that change made a huge difference in reducing the products desirability.  Again, I'm not against some changes (some are inevitable and some are desirable), however, we HAVE to be very careful with what we modify.  Can we at least agree on that?

 

Our sport's appeal is largely cultural.  We will not ever have large numbers of minorities as members and it would be a waste of effort to try to bring in people who have no cultural history of (for lack of a better term) playing cowboys and indians.

 

I think we need to establish what we truly love about CAS, besides the wonderful people, and promote that to our target audience.

 

Possum

I think when the good Captain is referencing semi autos and red dots - because I said, "everything is on the table" - that's misleading. 

 

Cultural?  There were a significant number of black cowboys, chinese and other groups involved in the settlement of the west.  Perhaps if we educated and addressed these facts; instead of perpetuating the white Savior myths of movies and television - we could make inroads.

 

And absolutely, we have to be very careful and measured in our changes - but no one at Coke thought they were going to crash and burn either.

They did not make their changes in a vacuum - they were losing market share to Pepsi and acted.

 

I firmly believe we have to look at every component of our current game - what works, what doesn't.  What makes us "cowboy" and special and what we can tweak without losing that special.

 

Perhaps we change nothing - but introspection and harsh analysis while we still are breathing is far better than an autopsy after we collapse.

 

Perhaps another thread is in order to determine individual opinion on inviolate features of our game. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

You could choose to play with just one Pistol and accept the misses too.  But IF you want to do well you wouldn't

I shoot with two pistols and still have that same number of misses.  Lol

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

YouTube and the like are essentially useless if not done specially to appeal to a well defined target market. Promotion and advertising is of little to no value if some in a vacuum.

 

I would love to see the market research that has been done to define the market...

 

Phantom

This is true, started a channel several years ago and went nowhere, very few followed, very few cared and more so majority of folks in Cowboy shooting do not watch YouTube and correct marketing is key.

 

it is hard to get a cowboy channel to look like Ranger up, GruntStyle, Back Rifle Coffee, folks that attract the younger generation, they are just no looking for what we offer. Now get a tricked out Marlin with a rail system and toys and might do the trick....who knows (Its a joke people lighten up).

 

my 1 cent is this, been reading these threads of fix, change, need new shooters, etc, etc, etc that comes up about two to three times a year. My question when does the rubber meet the road and wire debates, and arguments and would of could've end, Just seems like a lot of wheels spinning. 

 

Oh and lets make it a full 2 cents younger (30-40) are taking up sports like three gun, practical shooting, defense shooting, to prep for the coming Boogaloo, so bad time to try and recruit … just sayin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2020 at 3:07 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

That’s why I suggested an extra fee, or maybe shoot throughs are lost brass matches. I’m not suggesting we do it, I’m suggesting it’s worthy of thought.

Sounds like a tax. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rube Burrows said:

Just another thing that was an '"extra" draw to the sport is the overall comradery. In other shooting sports if you break a gun you are usually done. You won't be getting any help from the competition. In SASS it was just the opposite. People bend over backwards to lend you a backup gun if something happens, help you out on the stages and a host of other things. I would hate to lose that by turning the sport into another run of the mill shooting sport. 

 

I assume we are in good hands though.  

 

As an anecdote, at an IPSC match, my wife was having some trouble with her gun.  She had 3 offers of parts and 2 of spare guns and ammo to go with.  The attitude you reference isn't universal.

 

Doc

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Creeker, one change I would really like to see is the ability to shoot any style in the age based categories.  I'd love to be able to shoot GF for a stage or two if my hands aren't shaking too much.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

As an anecdote, at an IPSC match, my wife was having some trouble with her gun.  She had 3 offers of parts and 2 of spare guns and ammo to go with.  The attitude you reference isn't universal.

 

Doc

I’ve always found shooters in most disciplines are willing to help each other out . There are a few bad apples in every group but for the most part shooters are a pretty good lot 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Sounds like a tax. 

I don't think shoot through is economically viable,  so you have 2 shooters pay $5 extra to shoot through, but you loose 2 shooters that are mad they have to do extra work, time, spot,  pick etc. And join a different club, you gain $120 a year but loose $240 in match fees and $50 in membership sound like a bad business decision. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

As an anecdote, at an IPSC match, my wife was having some trouble with her gun.  She had 3 offers of parts and 2 of spare guns and ammo to go with.  The attitude you reference isn't universal.

 

Doc


no doubt. Nothing hardly is universal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BootStrap Phil said:

 

Oh and lets make it a full 2 cents younger (30-40) are taking up sports like three gun, practical shooting, defense shooting, to prep for the coming Boogaloo, so bad time to try and recruit … just sayin.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hendo said:

 

Seen this before where is it now??? He'll current SASS rules no where. Want to attrack younger this is a good start! Shoot, Move and Communicate. Make cowboy more than shuffleing right and left.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2020 at 11:02 PM, BootStrap Phil said:

Seen this before where is it now??? He'll current SASS rules no where. Want to attrack younger this is a good start! Shoot, Move and Communicate. Make cowboy more than shuffleing right and left.

 

That would be impossible at most of the ranges I shoot at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2020 at 4:57 PM, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

You could choose to play with just one Pistol and accept the misses too.  But IF you want to do well you wouldn't

Actually, the Brimstone Pistoleros had a category called Real Cowboy.  One handgun with a complete reload.  It was a hoot and works great at a monthly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

The club I shoot at tried western 3 gun years ago but economically didn't work.  Not enough interest to keep it going.

Rafe 

Inexpensive targets can be made and used for both W3G and SASS. Gotta have down range ability.

 

Biggest problem is that the majority of SASS / CAS are once... Maybe twice a month shooters. The common comment is "I shoot enough Cowboy as is".

 

The ironic thing about W3G is that there usually is no running and benifits those that can't move real fast... Also takes the tripping threat out of the game.

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed it, we do have a range that had down range ability we just did not have a big enough turnout to pay the range rental fees and insurance for the club. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Inexpensive targets can be made and used for both W3G and SASS. Gotta have down range ability.

 

Biggest problem is that the majority of SASS / CAS are once... Maybe twice a month shooters. The common comment is "I shoot enough Cowboy as is".

 

The ironic thing about W3G is that there usually is no running and benifits those that can't move real fast... Also takes the tripping threat out of the game.

 

Phantom

Hard to imagine.  Sharyn and I shoot 5 times a month and if there were more Sunday matches we would shoot 8 times a month.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Four areas I would like promoted:  1) Try marketing SASS without so much emphasis on the dress but keep the dress requirement as it is.  Show case the shooting with different abilities; some fast and some not so fast.  

2)  Do not refer to SASS as a fantasy sport.   Advertise the shooters real name,then known as:  their alias.  3)  keep the age based categories and allow the shooter the choice of style of shooting for that stage, traditional, gunfighter or duelist  4)  Allow some the concepts of western 3 gun if the club has room.  Shooters do not have to shoot on the move, but can if it can be done safely.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Kirk James said:

Advertise the shooters real name,then known as:  their alias.

I like the alias, would rather not mix with my real name in this sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2020 at 2:08 PM, StirrupTrouble said:

I have shot at some Iowa clubs that offer fewer than four gun categories, and at least at those clubs, they are scored separately since they are shooting fewer guns. If I remember the names correctly, they called them Sodbuster (rifle, shotgun), Working Cowboy (one pistol, rifle), and Range Detective (two pistols, one rifle). Not sure if it would work for SASS as a whole, but just passing on what I had observed at some shoots

Ok I think you was at NCOWS match. I like to shoot its a lot of fun no overall winner just class winners. On To SASS just help a new shooter get some gear 850 for stock rifle 250 used 97 two pistols 550 and 650 used rig 150  69.00 Hamilton dry goods it is a lot of money for a new shooter

I am for letting anyone shoot with shirts or blue Jeans for one year by that time he or she will fine what is needed. I also think we do need a Category for stock guns just spring jobs no low hammers or short stroke kits, Just a cheap way to start or to shoot in or like some one said a 22 class

Got to try some thing!!!  I still have the guns from 2002 my cost four guns and a rig 1050 not going to happen in today world.

Edited by three by eight
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, three by eight said:

Ok I think you was at NCOWS match. I like to shoot its a lot of fun no overall winner just class winners. On To SASS just help a new shooter get some gear 850 for stock rifle 250 used 97 two pistols 550 and 650 used rig 150  69.00 Hamilton dry goods it is a lot of money for a new shooter

I am for letting anyone shoot with shirts or blue Jeans for one year by that time he or she will fine what is needed. I also think we do need a Category for stock guns just spring jobs no low hammers or short stroke kits, Just a cheap way to start or to shoot in or like some one said a 22 class

Got to try some thing!!!  I still have the guns from 2002 my cost four guns and a rig 1050 not going to happen in today world.

Could you point me to a couple of those 250 buck 97's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It had a bend in the barrel just had 18  1/2" to cut off.    Jackson  Armory   has great deals just got keep checking on them 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Inexpensive targets can be made and used for both W3G and SASS. Gotta have down range ability.

 

Biggest problem is that the majority of SASS / CAS are once... Maybe twice a month shooters. The common comment is "I shoot enough Cowboy as is".

 

The ironic thing about W3G is that there usually is no running and benifits those that can't move real fast... Also takes the tripping threat out of the game.

 

Phantom

Valid points as yes would benefit the ones more mobile. If something they would pursue do not replace what were doing just make a new division/class what have you within SASS and make minimum clothes requirements and let the mobile or ones who want enter in that division. 

 

Yes would require more work at a match and yes most clubs are maxed out as it is for help, but in the spirit of throwing out some ideas I think may make younger folks go hmmm.

 

Who knows what the answer is if only the wire was a magic wand..:D

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In SASS you are not required to wear a hat, nor cowboy boots nor cowboy shirt, not even jeans. so what is minimum clothes requirements maybe tank top shirt speedos flip flops and a baseball cap with the brim in the back. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.

The Wild Bunch and their corporation owns the Moriarity, NM property. The Wild Bunch owns all intangible property of SASS. On October 1, 2020, all of the Wild Bunch will retire. I would think at this time, no officers would exist under the SASS corporation. 

On October 2, 2020, who will be running SASS? Will there be an organizational chart of new SASS officials? Will a new corporation be established ? I am aware that an advisory board will be established consisting of SASS members. They will have zero authority. Who will they advise?

 

The last seven pages are interesting. It seems we are putting the cart before the horse. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Red Cent said:

Interesting.

The Wild Bunch and their corporation owns the Moriarity, NM property. The Wild Bunch owns all intangible property of SASS. On October 1, 2020, all of the Wild Bunch will retire. I would think at this time, no officers would exist under the SASS corporation. 

On October 2, 2020, who will be running SASS? Will there be an organizational chart of new SASS officials? Will a new corporation be established ? I am aware that an advisory board will be established consisting of SASS members. They will have zero authority. Who will they advise?

 

The last seven pages are interesting. It seems we are putting the cart before the horse. 

 

 

Misty will still be the CEO and I think it's safe to assume she will be the ultimate arbiter of who is on the advisory board and most likely she will be the one being 'advised.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Hendo said:

Could you point me to a couple of those 250 buck 97's?

I just got one from an online auction... Description said "will not pump". All the pictures showed the hammer at half cock.:rolleyes: Was pretty sure what was wrong so I bid $300. Got it for $245. When I got to my FFL to pick it up, he had already been playing with it and says, "That thing works slick!". :D It is a D series made in 1906.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Verdigris Kid said:

I just got one from an online auction... Description said "will not pump". All the pictures showed the hammer at half cock.:rolleyes: Was pretty sure what was wrong so I bid $300. Got it for $245. When I got to my FFL to pick it up, he had already been playing with it and says, "That thing works slick!". :D It is a D series made in 1906.

So it was probably a three screw. The screws are less desirable.

 

I'd budget about $400 for a good base 1897... Plus or minus $25.

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.