Hollifer A. Dollar Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 At this weekend's Dark Day on the Santa Fe, during the safety brief we were told that the default starting position is now standing upright, hands at your sides, eyes downrange. The shooter is no longer allowed to look down at guns or ammo. I was also told that this was enforced pretty strictly at Winter Range. I searched this forum & the TG forum & found no notice of the rule clarification. Does anyone have any scoop on this one? Holler
Kirk James Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Everything but the eyes. Hope no one was down range checking them!
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Unless specified in stage instructions you can look at guns or ammo.
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Quote If no starting position is given, the shooter shall stand upright with revolvers holstered, hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm. (SASS default). RO I pg 13
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Here is the SASS default position as defined in the Shooters' Handbook 2017 edition(most current). Page 18; Stage Conventions: - If no starting position is given, the shooter shall stand upright with revolvers holstered, hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm. (SASS default). Unless the range or event instructions specify other, (their going against SASS stage conventions) the rule book applies Not a rule at Winter Range, not enforced. I am a board member of Winter Range, did not happen!
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 Say what!! We ain't playing hide N go peek here...........got rid of the crouching tiger a long time ago "When ready say your line"............."Stand By". . . . BEEEEEP
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said: Not a rule at Winter Range, not enforced. I am a board member of Winter Range, did not happen! That's good news....now we want to know who told who, that told who, who told who
LostVaquero Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 When a line is given such as: "Fill your hands". We expect the shooter to say: Quote Fill Your Hands Unquote.
Captain Clark Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 18 hours ago, Hollifer A. Dollar said: At this weekend's Dark Day on the Santa Fe, during the safety brief we were told that the default starting position is now standing upright, hands at your sides, eyes downrange. The shooter is no longer allowed to look down at guns or ammo. I was also told that this was enforced pretty strictly at Winter Range. I searched this forum & the TG forum & found no notice of the rule clarification. Does anyone have any scoop on this one? Holler Yea... Whoever that said that has access to the ultra secret RO? handbook? This ruling is covered under the "Shooters Intent" specific to eye sight direction! No more "shifty glances" before the buzzer Quotations added to above text for useless dramatic effect
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 HFD - You have been listening to the wrong (rumor) sources. Safety briefings ought to be conducted within the letter of SASS rules. That one was not. Good luck, GJ
Ace_of_Hearts Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 It is amazing how many new rules get invented each month! No input from TGs No input from Instructors No input from Rules Committee No input from SASS They must float down from on high! They are like snowflakes...... Amusing at first. Then they they become irritating.... And if they stay around awhile, they become a pain in the a#*.
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Was one of the Match Range Officers at Winter Range and this NEVER came to our attention nor did we talk about enforcement of it. And there has been NO rule change.
Outrider Outlaw Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Just playing devil's advocate here, but how does one stand upright and still be able to look at guns?
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, Outrider Outlaw said: Just playing devil's advocate here, but how does one stand upright and still be able to look at guns? Practice.
Shooting Bull Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, Outrider Outlaw said: Just playing devil's advocate here, but how does one stand upright and still be able to look at guns? Head bowed on prayer. Asking the shooting gods to help you not screw up the stage.
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Stump Water said: The BS "rules" some people come up with... Another one of my favorites is when folks are adamant that SASS Port Arms means that your gun butt must be touching leather. I know. You won't find that in the rule book, either.
Tucker McNeely Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Head bowed on prayer. Asking the shooting gods to help you not screw up the stage. As in The Shepherd’s prayer, Alan Shepherd’s prayer, “Lord, please don’t let me screw up.” — Space Cowboys by James “Tank” Garner.
Totes Magoats Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 I heard that cross draw shooters have to have their eyes crossed at EOT. Totes
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Some will claim the SASS default is "Fair" because it standardizes the starting position - but as the thread shows Once the made up rules/ incorrectly understood rules and rules being inconsistently applied make their appearance - the so called standardized "Default" position is anything but standardized or default. No different than when the inconsistencies in expectation and enforcement in "Port Arms" lead to "Cowboy Port Arms" and then to "In Hands" The inconsistencies in expectation and enforcement of the SASS default position encouraged the Eldorado Cowboys to create the Eldorado convention of "Unless specifically stated otherwise - shooter may start in ANY body posture or position - hands not touching guns or ammo" Yes, this direction allows a variety of postures. And Yes, not every shooter will start in the exact same body and hand position. But is that really such a bad thing? I don't think so. Options and choices are not bad things - as long as EVERY shooter has the opportunity to do the same thing. That's why you have seen the growth in matches and stage writing that allow for choice of gun order - movement direction - target engagement order. Allowing a shooter to determine the best position for THEM is by far the "FAIREST" default possible. Everyone is exactly equal in benefit - when the position they start in is the one THEY chose. I sincerely think this game should be less about regimenting the actions of every shooter to shoot the exact same match - and more about allowing every shooter the opportunity to shoot THEIR best match within the confines of the stage directions. We don't regulate and require the same shooting style - propellant - equipment shooter to shooter... I doubt allowing variations of knees bent, arms bent, head position, etc. would kill the game either. And, lets face it... If you were preparing to walk into a gunfight - I doubt you are going in standing straight up - hands at sides.
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Creeker, I total agree, when I see this come up on the wire I wonder where people get these ideas and think it's now the rule. Looking forward to another El Dorado, I'll be a PM if you would like. TB
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 Please let me look at my revolvers as I draw. Arthritis is getting troublesome. I don’t want to drop a loaded revolver. I want to see what I am reaching for. You can probably beat me even if I’m looking down. If you can’t beat an arthritic 73 year old, maybe you should try another pastime.
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