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Leaving The Loading Table With Loaded Pistols...How Far is Too Far?


Cypress Sun

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RO 1 Pg 14 Item 3

 

All firearms will remain unloaded except while under direct observation of a designated person on the firing line or in the designated loading and unloading areas. NOTE: Percussion revolver shooters must ensure they maintain safe muzzle direction during loading and have

fired or cleared all capped chambers prior to leaving the unloading area. It is not permissible to seat percussion caps on a revolvers nipple using the guns hammer. Some Range Officers will require the percussion revolvers be cleared before leaving the firing line. Failure to

adhere to loading and unloading procedures will result in a Stage Disqualification. Leaving the unloading table without clearing all firearms is failure to adhere to unloading procedures and will result in the penalty being assessed on the stage where the infraction was committed.

 

 

 

Thank you so all we need is distance. Probably going to be left up to local clubs.

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the suspense is killing me...

 

REF: RO1 p.20 (#36)

(also the Pocket RO card)

 

The ROC was asked a few years ago to delineate an actual distance beyond which the shooter would be penalized.

 

It depends on the range layout and location of the LT/ULT "designated areas"... apply the RO3 parameters.

 

FWIW - "open to interpretation" does NOT mean that the rule doesn't apply if someone doesn't understand/like it.

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one step, two steps, three steps, or the four step?

 

we have a 5 and 10 foot rule for A D s, why not state a distance?

 

at any shoot, you cud have a dq for 6 ft, and one for 10 ft.... or one "saved" at 12 ft.

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If you have stepped away from the table with the intention of heading somewhere other than the firing line or the expediter position it would seem that you have violated the rule. Doesn't it?

 

Stan

 

Intention?

 

A finite distance would be good for me...........even if it approximate.......... ;)

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...and I don't want someone standing there counting steps or fiddling with a measuring tape waiting to ding someone who's simply making room for others at the LT.

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The rule is necessary.

 

I just don't want a SDQ because somebody determines I can't touch the loading table

That is why I mentioned arms length to a shooter at the loading table

Often times a shooter waiting to shoot will scoot forward to allow more room for folks still loading, especial with small loading tables

 

Common since should be a part if interpreting rules, but here we go again

I don't really think a timer operator would give a sdq if you were two inches beyond reaching the table :-)

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That is why I mentioned arms length to a shooter at the loading table

Often times a shooter waiting to shoot will scoot forward to allow more room for folks still loading, especial with small loading tables

 

Common since should be a part if interpreting rules, but here we go again

I don't really think a timer operator would give a sdq if you were two inches beyond reaching the table :-)

 

I'll tell them its "OK" Madd Mike said so ;)

 

I just measured. I can reach up 8' 6" high flat footed. So...........I'm good for 8' 8" from the LT

 

It's good to be tall :P

 

PS: Got a SDQ today, but not for this :blink:

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...and I don't want someone standing there counting steps or fiddling with a measuring tape waiting to ding someone who's simply making room for others at the LT.

 

Nor do I......but at this point there really isn't a defining or clear point of violation. I'm not enjoying making your job harder.....believe me on this.

Ok how about this. Who has called it and how far away was the shooter from the loading table.

 

I called for the SDQ, the shooter was approx. 20' away from the LT.

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This is my opinion, based on the very first sentence of ROI, pg 14, item 3:

 

The shooter carrying loaded revolvers probably earned that penalty when they were no longer under the "Direct Observation" of the LT officer.

 

A specific written distance wasn't necessesary because they walked away from that particular 'Space' which is under the care of the LT Officer.

 

 

..........Widder

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Ok how about this. Who has called it and how far away was the shooter from the loading table.

I've never called it, but have given warnings, almost always to new shooters. At or club, stages are close together and LT & ULT space is limited. Sometimes some will take a half step to make room for the next guy. Occasionally someone forgets and starts to step further away to see the shooter on line. Before they get to that point I warn them. Never had the same person do it again. The TO is so busy doing their job that they're likely not aware of the shooter on deck until the shooter who's just finished has has been cleared to the ULT.

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I must preface by bringing y'alls attention to my SASS #....so pretty new. I have never heard a distance given or read the same. The club I shoot with asks that we do not holster handguns till called to the line. So...no chance of this happening. Yes...Loading table, no matter how big, always seem smaller when other shooters are waiting and everyone is moving guns to make more room when there is none. But this particular never came up due to the aforementioned provision of no holstering till ya hear "Next shooter" and it's you.

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I must preface by bringing y'alls attention to my SASS #....so pretty new. I have never heard a distance given or read the same. The club I shoot with asks that we do not holster handguns till called to the line. So...no chance of this happening. Yes...Loading table, no matter how big, always seem smaller when other shooters are waiting and everyone is moving guns to make more room when there is none. But this particular never came up due to the aforementioned provision of no holstering till ya hear "Next shooter" and it's you.

I don't care for that rule, so I always ask, mother may I?

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Like I said earlier arms reach unless under a cover then with in arms reach of that. Yes if your one who makes several tris to you cart from the lt then you park right next to the cover but don't get caught sittin on it unless you can reach the table.,

 

 

First I think intent has to play a role here was he outside arms reach because the group pushed him that far but he has no plans on leaving the area until he is called to the line. No call here. His cart is on the other side of the range line for arms reach but he needs ammo from his cart then to be legal he needs to place all loaded gunson the table return the o his cart for the ammo return to the table retrieve all loaded guns and wait to be call to the line if he doesn't its a pentaly.

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Nor do I......but at this point there really isn't a defining or clear point of violation. I'm not enjoying making your job harder.....believe me on this.

 

 

I called for the SDQ, the shooter was approx. 20' away from the LT.

Good call

 

Next shooter :-D

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This is................

Cat Brules

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We do not need a distance, steps, feet, or meters, or reason they left

Walked away, wondered away,,,,,,,, pushed away ,,,,,yikes, really, someone would push a shooter away???

We need folks using their heads,

when a shooter leaves the loading table with loaded pistols with out being called to the shooting line

Give them their earned penalty with out feeling the need, to see a printed official distance

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At the match today, a shooter with holstered loaded pistols left the loading table to retrieve a shotgun from their spouse who was at the unloading table. Shooter got about 20' away before being noticed. One (other) shooter called it a stage DQ and another shooter argued that there is no specified distance concerning how far away is too far away, therefore a no call.

 

For the record, the situation was brought before the match director who ruled SDQ.

 

Regardless of the question, how did the shooter get that far away? In your opinion, how far is too far?

 

In my opinion, anything beyond 5' to 6' is too far. I know some will say that that is even too far.......but that's my opinion.

 

Your's is?

 

CS

 

 

But have to agree with the call. 20 feet? Yep. He left the loading table for sure.

 

I think it should be within arms reach. If you can not reach out and touch the table. You are getting to far.

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Sometimes I feel the folks in this game of SASS CAS get a little too hoplophobic. Most SASS events are held at cold ranges. Convention says he should have left the pistols at the loading table before venturing over to the UT. But think about it for a minute. What possible harm was done by his action? NONE. The loaded pistols were not about to fly out of the holsters and fire on their own. He stayed on the firing line. The entire length of which is where loaded holstered pistols are specifically allowed.

 

No harm, no foul. SDQ is a little hard ass in my opinion which just may be worth less than two centavos to some of you my pards.

 

I shoot at one place that is not a SASS match. We have no written rules. The only spoken rules are two -- have fun and don't shoot nobody. So basically it is a hot range which I am a big advocate of. We have LTs and UTLs and use them as every other place does. But if a pard has already holstered at the LT and needs to go over to his cart no more than 5 to 10 yards away to retrieve something no one is going to say a word. Because NO harm was done, there is nothing inherently unsafe to the action and NO one was in any danger whatsoever. Same with running over to the UT to fetch a shotgun.

 

JMNSHO, YMMV

I would respectfully have to disagree. The harm of having a nonchalant or whatever just be safe attitude is this. Basically it's training your clubs shooters to not really know the rules. Because things may be uninforced at your club and in forced at another. When they get the so called "hard ass" call that's really just a normal rule. That's when feelings get hurt and people get mad! And this happens when the violation is legitimate.

It's just as easy to start right and have fun as it is to start off wrong and have fun. Less problems in the long run.

View from my saddle.

Regards,

Ringer

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Howdy,

Easy peasey.

tie a six foot rope to the loading table, once ya holster loaded ya hold that rope.

Low tech, with NO judgement calls involved.

Could be tried at the club level this weekend??

Best

CR

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If you have stepped away from the table with the intention of heading somewhere other than the firing line or the expediter position it would seem that you have violated the rule. Doesn't it?

 

Stan

This is the perfect non-lawyer interpretation that SASS has tried to incorporate by having a small rule book. No new rules needed. The gray area of one or two steps out of the comfort zone for those in charge should be a quick & stern warning, turn your back and go to your cart is a SDQ. Safety is the prime mover, we should be helping each other avoid the mistake.

 

CR

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I got it

Every club could ground paint a circle around each loading table depicting their clubs acceptable distance

 

Ok

Now we get into

One foot outside the circle

Two feet out side the circle

Just part of a foot on the circle

The paint is disappearing from use and abuse

 

Wow,,,,,,,,,that's the wire for ya

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Because NO harm was done, there is nothing inherently unsafe to the action and NO one was in any danger whatsoever.

 

 

I may be reading you wrong so please clarify. Are you saying it wasn't an unsafe action because nobody was harmed? Throughout history there have probably been MILLIONS of unsafe actions performed where nobody got hurt. They were still unsafe actions.

 

That being said, I carry a loaded weapon all the time so no, I don't think it's an unsafe action. Just don't agree with the reasoning if I'm reading your statement correctly.

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I favor, (although not in the rules), to not holster until the shooter in front of you has shot through about half of his run, then holster, and I place both long guns butt first on the end of the loading table, barrels straight up. Then I'm fully ready to step to the line when called, without hesitation, or fumbling with holstering, or gathering up guns after I have been called to the line. This will prevent you from walking off with loaded pistols, and will prevent any lost time when called to the line.

 

That's the way I do it. YMMV. RBK

 

+1 on this, I do exactly the same thing. I can fit all 4 guns in a narrow enough space that it doesn't cause an issue with other shooters.

 

Holler

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