End of the lead bullet? - how will CAS respond...

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/

 

GG ~

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

I like the part of saving the Eagle, when the enviromental windmills have been killing them. MT

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

That is close to the most ignorant article I've seen yet about the Doe Run lead smelter shutdown.

 

You wouldn't have to swing a dead cat very long before you'd hit a couple of idiots from that article.

 

1000 tons of lead would be saved by the DOD each year by going to copper slugs that don't have as much range as our current ammunition. Wow, that would really save the world, and the Pentagon's budget. Just think, replace about $2 million in lead costs in the ammo with about $8 million for the replacement copper. Yep, great economics, and a minuscule drop in the Pentagon's budget bucket.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Warden Callaway]

They tried to do all of this back in the Carter administration.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I guess we'll have to import more lead now.

[C. Erroll Madre]

That is close to the most ignorant article I've seen yet about the Doe Run lead smelter shutdown.

 

You wouldn't have to swing a dead cat very long before you'd hit a couple of idiots from that article.

 

1000 tons of lead would be saved by the DOD each year by going to copper slugs that don't have as much range as our current ammunition. Wow, that would really save the world, and the Pentagon's budget. Just think, replace about $2 million in lead costs in the ammo with about $8 million for the replacement copper. Yep, great economics, and a minuscule drop in the Pentagon's budget bucket.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

That's okay, the Pentagon can afford it that now that the administration just screwed over all of us Veterans out of our COLA.

 

They tried to do all of this back in the Carter administration.

 

It didn't work then because the environmental loonies weren't as organized and didn't have social/mainstream media in their pockets like they do now.

 

Even though the news story was geared towards the military & one smelter, my question is how will this affect the smaller manufacturers that many of

us use now, i.e. Chey-Cast, Meister, etc..? Will they still be in business? Will they still be able to obtain lead? Since I mold my own bullets, will I be able

to get lead?

 

If you think it will be bad for Cowboy Action, think of what lead availability or a severe price increase would do to the N-SSA.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Nut'n will happen.

Sky is NOT fall'n.

Even the ammo/bullet makers have said this.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

LG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Nut'n will happen.

Sky is NOT fall'n.

Even the ammo/bullet makers have said this.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

LG

 

Yeah - didn't know one way or the other and just put the article up for thoughts - thanks for sharing the Sierra Bullet statement.

 

GG ~

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

GG, just check out Rotometals site.

http://www.rotometals.com/

Just rec'd 300 lbs of 30:1 alloy last week.

LG

[Utah Bob #35998]

Nut'n will happen.

Sky is NOT fall'n.

Even the ammo/bullet makers have said this.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

LG

+1

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

That is close to the most ignorant article I've seen yet about the Doe Run lead smelter shutdown.

 

You wouldn't have to swing a dead cat very long before you'd hit a couple of idiots from that article.

 

1000 tons of lead would be saved by the DOD each year by going to copper slugs that don't have as much range as our current ammunition. Wow, that would really save the world, and the Pentagon's budget. Just think, replace about $2 million in lead costs in the ammo with about $8 million for the replacement copper. Yep, great economics, and a minuscule drop in the Pentagon's budget bucket.

 

Good luck, GJ

GJ,

 

That's a funny one. You thinkin' that the DOD or the Pentagon even realizing they have a budget.

[Henry T Harrison]

Has anyone ever explained to these idiots just where lead comes from?

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

The article doesn't surprise me but seeing it on Fox News does. I expect this sort of article in the Huffington Post or Mother Jones but not Fox News which is not know as a mouthpiece for leftist misinformation.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Think about it though, lead has been removed from the earth and used for many generations and with the recycling craze, there's likely far, far less need to remove it from the earth and process it since it's so plentiful due to recycling. Also, if the military stops using lead, demand for lead will fall and lead prices should fall with the demand. Unless I'm missing something, sounds like win/win for lead bullet users.

 

Now copper, on the other hand, will be another matter entirely. Since the militaries use of copper will increase, thereby increasing demand, I expect copper prices will skyrocket with this demand.

 

 

CHT

[Yul Lose]

Copper thefts are bad now and as the price goes up so will the number of thefts.

[Buzzard II]

So now china will be selling us lead. EPA and Obama strike again!

[Yul Lose]

China's been selling us lead in the rice and other foods we import from them for decades.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The amount of lead or copper that is consumed in the projectiles of small arms ammo for the DoD is a small percentage of the overall use of those two metals in the United States. US consumption of copper is about 2 million tons a year. Estimated use in US ammunition is only about 5,000 tons a year. That is 0.25% or less of the copper we use. Using even as much as twice as much would not raise the copper price a noticeable amount.

 

A little common sense and calm goes a long way anymore.

 

GJ

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

GJ,

 

That's a funny one. You thinkin' that the DOD or the Pentagon even realizing they have a budget.

Not to worry, the additional costs will be offset by the reduction in retiree benefits and limiting cost of living increases for retirement pay to 1%. Should additional funds be needed Tri Care premiums will go to a monthly cost of 60% of active duty pay and 87% of retiree pay and tri care for life 100% retiree pay plus 25% of social security

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

So now china will be selling us lead. EPA and Obama strike again!

Actually, no, China needs all of it's own lead production to put in car batteries as it sells a car to perhaps one out of three of the 500 million households in their country over the next ten years. China right now is an importer of our scrap lead.

 

Our lead imports will come from Australia, Peru or Mexico.

 

Good luck, GJ

[McCandless]

I'm just concerned about the environ-mentals gearing up to stop us using lead ammo. Let's just suppose someone has been loading ammo in quite some quantity, stocking up, looking forward to the time when they are retired and couldn't afford the cost of components anymore. Do y'all think that person might be stuck with a large stockpile of ammo they can't use??

 

Just supposin'

Duc

[Texas Jim Henry, SASS #20616]

Yep... nothing more important than killing an enemy with an environmentally-friendy bullet. I'm sure it will make them feel better, too! What a crock.

 

Regards, TJH

[Assassin]

There are still alot of cities that have not removed lead water pipes from public water systems. One of the board of public utility guys that works for the city of Cheyenne gives me some of the lead pipe as they replace it. They replace it when they find it, usually when replacing old meters they run a scope through the line and check for lead.

[Zekest Crowe]

At the distances we shoot, would aluminum bullets, as in recycled soda and beer cans be a viable option?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Zinc. Has been used before for target bullets. Would work again. But, we won't need to, that's my projection. Quit worrying, get to shootin.

 

GJ

[Olen Rugged]

...and take a rake to the range with you. Just clean up around a few of the static targets and in a few months you will have enough lead to get into production at home. Around the rifle targets you will find many almost whole projectiles. The surface of the berm near by will likely be covered with slightly deformed bullets.

 

"Mining" ranges is productive and profitable.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hello,

 

California has not banned lead bullets entirely. They are only banned for hunting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Hello,

 

California has not banned lead bullets entirely. They are only banned for hunting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Yup - and that is just the beginning...

 

GG ~

[Shooting Bull]

The good folks at Missouri Bullets have been trying to put this B.S. to rest for months, if not years. The lead they use for bullets is almost exclusively recycled. The shutdown of the smelter isn't going to affect them in the least, other than to raise a panic and set off another wave of hoarding.

[Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517]

The good folks at Missouri Bullets have been trying to put this B.S. to rest for months, if not years. The lead they use for bullets is almost exclusively recycled. The shutdown of the smelter isn't going to affect them in the least, other than to raise a panic and set off another wave of hoarding.

Yup! +1

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

At the distances we shoot, would aluminum bullets, as in recycled soda and beer cans be a viable option?

Alum melts at to high a temp to for home casters.

In all the history of small-arms. Lead has been found to be the best.

LG

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The good folks at Missouri Bullets have been trying to put this B.S. to rest for months, if not years. The lead they use for bullets is almost exclusively recycled. The shutdown of the smelter isn't going to affect them in the least, other than to raise a panic and set off another wave of hoarding.

THIS X2!

That smelter did NOT supply any lead for 'our' use.

LG

[Hoss]

Hello,

 

California has not banned lead bullets entirely. They are only banned for hunting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Yup - and that is just the beginning...

 

GG ~

Starting January 1 all bank robbers, murderes, terroist must use environmentally friendy bullets, made from aluminum, copper or compacted fairy dust. Violators of these statues will lose their Starbucks priveleges for 2 months.

[Madd Mike #8595]

you can try to take the lead from my cold dead fingers

 

when lead is outlawed --- only outlaws will have lead

 

carry on folks, mileage will vary

 

oh

I almost forgot

the vol-in-tary lead --- turn in program ----- coming soon in your hood

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Over a decade ago SASS, looking into the future, commissioned a study on the viability of frangibles for our game. I do not recall all the results but IIRC the main problem was the tendency of frangibles to crumble during the reloading process. That was a deal breaker. Other properties of frangibles were very positive. Most especially the way they just go poof on steel and there is ZERO backsplash aka splatter aka shrapnel.

 

It is way past time to allow their use in our game. The crumbling while reloading problem I am thinking has since those early days been overcome today. There were no other downsides that I can recall.

 

On a related note self healing soft polymer targets need to be looked at very hard and seriously. Splat is good as clang to me. YMMV,