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Shotgun Bandit

Rank points at there worst

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Actually, the closer you get to the Middle - the heavier the penalty...it's a bell curve distribution thing.

 

Also Dave, I'm curious. You had a SDQ. That means you were far from "excellent" on that stage yet Rank Points kept you in the game. So in your case, Rank Point scoring didn't support excellence as much as Total Time would have...So I'm a bit confused by this arguement...

 

Anyway...sure hope I can make it next year to WR...Rank Points or not.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

 

Well. like I said, I didn't know if my experience argued for or against Rank Scoring. All I know is that for some, rank scoring meant one mistake cost them the match. For me, rank scoring kept me in the game when Total Time might not. I was glad it worked out that way. I got to come home with a buckle. So it works in mysterious ways. Some it hurts--some it helps.

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First let me say I do not have a Dog in this hunt .......Purely an observation.......

In 49er Category....

 

Long Swede 10th place............Time 275.73..............Rank points 770

 

FJT 2nd place............Time 276.11............Rank points 469

 

Just because a shooter has 1 bad stage (over 500 rank points) he winds up # 10 even though he beat 9 of the shooters ahead of him. That is soooooo Wrong.

 

FJT I aint picken on ya ..........Bandit ( what got his nomex drawers on)

absolutely agree with you! Your time is your time and rank points are bull hockey! :ph34r:

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...sure hope I can make it next year to WR...

 

 

Yeah, what's up with that? I didn't even go to WR to shoot, only reason I went was to finally meet the world famous Phantom face to face and get to shake his hand. Then come to find out you weren't even there. Wasssamatta, you skeered? :P

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Heaven forbid that we actually try and make the system better!

Oh, and I'll continue to shoot and support WR and EoT and every other match that uses Rank Point. It's a game!!!! But again, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't welcome an improvement.

Oy!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

We agee.

 

But, if doin' the same thing (sayin' RPs stink), over and over (for 25+ years), why would you expect a different outcome (change to TT)? TT does not have the one critical factor that seems to be the essential element desired by the WB. That any placement on any stage be of equal value in determining overall finish. I'd suggest a differennt tack. Since many agree simple rank points is flawed, be constructive in your criticism. Offer up alternatives that keep that essential element and do away with the inequities of penalties as set numbers across unequal or disparate stages.

 

Simply staating that I beat a shooter on total time and on X stages doesn't mean you shot the better match. Obviously you left a wide window open when you didn't beat him on all the stages. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't mean the concept is flawed.

 

An SDQ shouldn't put you out of the running. Ok, it leaves you in quite a hole, but if everyone else falls apart and you otherwise maintain your excellence, didn't you still shoot well, overall? I haad that happen to me this past fall at the State WB match. Knocked me out of placing, (which I was in no danger of doing anyway, but it didn't leave in last overall.

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Well. like I said, I didn't know if my experience argued for or against Rank Scoring. All I know is that for some, rank scoring meant one mistake cost them the match. For me, rank scoring kept me in the game when Total Time might not. I was glad it worked out that way. I got to come home with a buckle. So it works in mysterious ways. Some it hurts--some it helps.

 

 

Rank points keep me in the top 10 at EOT a few years ago. :unsure:

That was after a SDQ. :blink:

So. Guess I will not say anything against it anymore. :lol:

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... So it works in mysterious ways...

 

Ah ha! I believe you have discovered the secret!

 

Olen ;)

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Without Rank Points what would these long winters be like?? :) It keeps our minds active.

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Without Rank Points what would these long winters be like?? :) It keeps our minds active.

 

You shooting SASS again? It's about time...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Didn't somebody predict 14 pages? Best get some long winded opinions or we'll never make it.

 

CR

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Guest Texas Jack Black

You shooting SASS again? It's about time...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

YUP SHOOTING THIS YEAR After a heart attack,back surgery ,and a broken leg. I know, I know the old mean ones never die. ;):)

 

 

T J B

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I got a stupid question? Are SASS matches scored by the number of shooters we beat during a match - figured stage by stage - or is it the time we took to shoot all the stages, figuring in the various penalites and bonuses and such? I know that State and below have a choice. I am talking about the basic premise; the foundation of the thought process for SASS matches in general.

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YUP SHOOTING THIS YEAR After a heart attack,back surgery ,and a broken leg. I know, I know the old mean ones never die. ;):)

 

 

T J B

 

Good man! :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Go too slow - well, ask Deuce and Single Barrel, both of whom shot clean, and DIDN'T win OA - where that balance point is. It's a tough call, a touch call.

 

 

 

 

 

FJT, just to clarify I had a major gun breakage (ejector spring broke on Marlin had to hand eject 5 rounds and reload one that rolled off) second stage of my match. It sucked and I knew I was done from a overall win standpoint,and I was barely started. Shooting clean became a point of pride and the goal became just to stay in the top ten. I continued to shoot the match as I would have if I had not had any trouble at all. It worked. Winter Range is a championship caliber match......period. In hindsight I wouldn't have had anything in the match different(besides a spring not breaking) :D I don't care what they use just as long as everyone else is scored the same.

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Tried to explain rank points to two trap shooters yesterday. Must not have done it right as they just looked at me like I was nuts. :lol:

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Tried to explain rank points to two trap shooters yesterday. Must not have done it right as they just looked at me like I was nuts. :lol:

 

 

What did they look at you like BEFORE you tried to explain Rank Points? B)

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we are gittn there

 

4 pages

 

this should peter out

..........................in about 4 more :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Tried to explain rank points to two trap shooters yesterday. Must not have done it right as they just looked at me like I was nuts. :lol:

 

Pard I would say ya did a right fine job explaining Rank Points ,,,,, if they looked at Ya that way ...

 

 

I have had similar experences when I tried explaining it ,,, Some comments are "what kinda Nut thought this up"

"Stupid really stupid" , "For real " . "What a crazy thing" "Is it a local thing" " No one would shoot that way, would they"

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Guest Texas Jack Black

we are gittn there

 

4 pages

 

this should peter out

..........................in about 4 more :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Maybe this go-round the un- enlightened ones will see the light.

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Maybe this go-round the un- enlightened ones will see the light.

 

Still haven't answered a simple question...

 

:FlagAm:

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Still haven't answered a simple question...

 

:FlagAm:

 

No one answered my question either.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Still haven't answered a simple question...

 

:FlagAm:

 

The answer has been with SASS since the beginning Reread mike and lou and think of SASS as more than IPSC in cowboy boots.You should then understand.

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The answer has been with SASS since the beginning Reread mike and lou and think of SASS as more than IPSC in cowboy boots.You should then understand.

 

Typical non-responsive answer from the highly respected TJB...

 

:FlagAm:

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.

 

 

So again would folks prefer total time IF they wouldn't be able to check scores (of others) prior to awards?

 

 

Yes!!

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Yes + 1

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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So again would folks prefer total time IF they wouldn't be able to check scores (of others) prior to awards?

 

Absolutely! What difference does it make if everyone's scores are posted beforehand or not?

 

Do you have a method in mind for checking your own score for accuracy?

 

Sounds great! Is it possible?

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Typical non-responsive answer from the highly respected TJB...

 

:FlagAm:

 

And now as Phantom gets frustrated he starts his attacks on the individual Sad !I will say again re-read the posts and also read SOG you need a refresher. :) I bid you farewell on this subject as some will never understand.

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I will ask the question again. Are SASS matches scored by beating the greatest number of shooters in an overall match or who shot the fastest - which both include penalties and bonuses to calculate the final outcome? The reason why I ask again is because the answer will define the purpose of why we are keeping score in the first place; to determine the winning shooter and subsequently places of all the other contestants. Are we awarding first place to the shooter that beats the greatest number of shooters? Or, are awarding the shooter who shoots the fastest? I don't know the answer. Rank Scoring does not award consistency. Rank Scoring does not automaticly give slower shooters a chance to score higher in the standings. But, what it does do, is calculate how many shooters each shooter beats in the overall match. Is that a legitmate definition of the standings in a match? KCD

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I will ask the question again. Are SASS matches scored by beating the greatest number of shooters in an overall match or who shot the fastest - which both include penalties and bonuses to calculate the final outcome? The reason why I ask again is because the answer will define the purpose of why we are keeping score in the first place; to determine the winning shooter and subsequently places of all the other contestants. Are we awarding first place to the shooter that beats the greatest number of shooters? Or, are awarding the shooter who shoots the fastest? I don't know the answer. Rank Scoring does not award consistency. Rank Scoring does not automaticly give slower shooters a chance to score higher in the standings. But, what it does do, is calculate how many shooters each shooter beats in the overall match. Is that a legitmate definition of the standings in a match? KCD

 

We thought we could get FCGF as a category by making it available at smaller, then bigger matches, and by petitioning the "PTB" with positive anecdotal evidence. Even got them to try it at WR last year. Consensus seems to be in favor of it. Still no FCGF. What makes anybody think that Rank Point scoring will die, especially when there is no clear consensus? I hear valid arguments to scrap it, but we've got what we've got. I'm shooting whatever the scoring system, even if a jammed cap costs me 100RP instead of 7RP.

 

CR

 

 

 

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And now as Phantom gets frustrated he starts his attacks on the individual Sad !I will say again re-read the posts and also read SOG you need a refresher. :) I bid you farewell on this subject as some will never understand.

So exactly how does spirit of the game relate to rank point scoring or total time scoring? Inquiring minds do not understand?

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And now as Phantom gets frustrated he starts his attacks on the individual Sad !I will say again re-read the posts and also read SOG you need a refresher. :) I bid you farewell on this subject as some will never understand.

 

HA!

 

...at least you're consistant.

 

Oh, and yea, it's Real Cowboy to penalize the middle of the pack shooters more then the top of the curve shooters...yea...you reeeeeally know what you are talking about. At least I was able to blocked you so you can't send anymore of your curse/hate filled PM's...back shooter that you are...

 

:wacko:

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Hey, I got an idea! Since rank points determine the winner of each stage, let's all shoot one stage, have an awards ceremony, then go shoot the next stage, have an awards ceremony. Keep doing that until we run out of daylight. :lol:

 

The thing about it is, if you shoot the fastest time with the fewest misses on every stage you are gonna win, regardless of scoring method. If you don't shoot the fastest time with the fewest misses on every stage, you might still win with rank scoring.

 

How a match is scored doesn't really matter to me. If I was dead set against one way or the other, I just wouldn't go to the matches that scored the way I don't like. Pretty simple.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

So exactly how does spirit of the game relate to rank point scoring or total time scoring? Inquiring minds do not understand?

 

 

SOG has nothing to do with RP or TT it was suggested reading as I was expecting a personnel attack and as expected it came from,GUESS who? :wacko::blink:

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We thought we could get FCGF as a category by making it available at smaller, then bigger matches, and by petitioning the "PTB" with positive anecdotal evidence. Even got them to try it at WR last year. Consensus seems to be in favor of it. Still no FCGF. What makes anybody think that Rank Point scoring will die, especially when there is no clear consensus? I hear valid arguments to scrap it, but we've got what we've got. I'm shooting whatever the scoring system, even if a jammed cap costs me 100RP instead of 7RP.

 

CR

 

 

 

FWIW, there is a difference in why we don't have FCGF vs. why we have rank scoring. In the case of FCGF, it got a chance to be voted on and while the majority wanted it, it failed to get the two-thirds majority needed from the clubs (via TG's). That could change and I believe it will given more time. I also believe the Wild Bunch wants this category. I base that belief on the fact that it was offered as a category at EOT in 2011 and is again on the application for 2012.

 

Regarding rank points, it is my understanding that the Wild Bunch has kept them alive and that makes sense since the requirement to use rank points only applies to regional and above matches. While some think that rank scoring will never be done away with and that discussion here on the Wire and elsewhere will always fall on deaf ears, I don't believe that is necessarily the case as I do believe the Wild Bunch has their ear to the ground. Only time will tell.

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