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Shotgun Bandit

Rank points at there worst

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How about a new scoring system.

 

Eliminate all but two catagories. Men & Women

 

 

Take Raw Time, +/- penalties & bonuses, subtract shooters age in seconds and that is the final score,,,, and go from there? :lol:

 

Subtract shooters age in seconds on each stage? Why not!!! LOL.

 

Rattlesnake Wrangler would have to work harder since his age is so darn little in comparison to the Cattle Baron folks.

 

Kidding!! But would be interesting.

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How about a new scoring system.

 

Eliminate all but two catagories. Men & Women

 

 

Take Raw Time, +/- penalties & bonuses, subtract shooters age in seconds and that is the final score,,,, and go from there? :lol:

 

Subtract shooters age in seconds on each stage? Why not!!! LOL.

 

Rattlesnake Wrangler would have to work harder since his age is so darn little in comparison to the Cattle Baron folks.

 

Kidding!! But would be interesting.

 

Forget the age, subtract the shooter's weight in seconds. Negative time, here I come!. :P

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Forget the age, subtract the shooter's weight in seconds. Negative time, here I come!. :P

 

 

Never thought about weight.... That would work better. :lol: Poor Rattlesnake,,.... :)

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With all due respect, Rank Scoring doesn't have anything to do with "inidvidual" stages. It doesn't reward consistency. It simply calculates the number of shooters each shooter beat through the "entire" match.

 

How do you figure rank scoring has nothing to do with "individual" stages??? You are kidding aren't ya? If the shooter, for example, ranks 1 on each stage, then he is rewarded in consistency isn't he? Seems to me that rank scoring calculated the number of shooters that beat him,, not the "number of shooters each shooter beat through the "entire" match." Guess I had it all wrong.

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OK...Over my 20 years in CAS I have been helped and hurt by both! Let's take yesterday's match...

 

I was 3rd OA and no missed targets but had a P; I won 3 stages; TT=123 sec.

 

OA winner had 2 misses on a stage and 2 stage wins; TT=128.

 

2nd OA shooter was clean with 1 stage win; TT=130.

 

Do I DESERVE 3rd for being fastest but having a P? You're damn right I do because a P is "worse" than a miss or 2 that's why it has a 10 penalty. If the match was a TT match I could have outrun my mistake.

 

That's why we have many clubs and matches in CAS, there is room for all to play their game of preference!

 

 

In TT scoring the winner is rewarded for being the FASTEST through the stages; even if he/she makes a few mistakes; if one is FAST ENOUGH the mistakes can be outrun.

 

In RP scoring the winner is rewarded for being most CONSISTENT through the stages; if one makes mistakes, they can be costly and usually cannot be outrun.

 

 

RP matches make me a better shooter because I can make fewer mistakes and get away with it. I enjoy shooting a few TT matches because I can outrun most any mistakes I make! I recall both Hipshot and The Judge mentioning to me about 13 years ago that the reason THEY like RP scoring is that it makes the winner be the most CONSISTENT shooter in the bunch! That is what it is and no one can change it but them!

 

IMHO, enjoy the matches you shoot and try to better your shooting so you can win RP matches instead of bitching about how they're scored...but that's me! I also notice that it's mostly the highest SASS numbers that are complaining RP versus TT scoring but, in truth, this argument has been around since the scorecard came on the range when they started CAS/SASS. Enjoy the fire!

 

Sparky

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In TT scoring the winner is rewarded for being the FASTEST through the stages; even if he/she makes a few mistakes; if one is FAST ENOUGH the mistakes can be outrun.

 

In RP scoring the winner is rewarded for being most CONSISTENT through the stages; if one makes mistakes, they can be costly and usually cannot be outrun.

 

Sparky

 

 

<_< One things that bothers me is the word "consistent " thrown around for rank point matches.

 

Can you be consistantly slow ? Can you consistantly miss ? stc.

 

 

I know what is meant by consistant but it doesn't sound right, how about a really solid match.

 

 

Total Time will let you or can help you dig your way out of a miss or even a P in a match but that also depends on the competition at the match if youve got some shooters that pretty evenly matched than you are not going to be able to make up anything.

 

 

I'm not going to fret over it like said sometimes it helps ya & sometimes it hurts ya .

 

 

AO

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:lol::lol::lol:

 

Oops, I wasn't finished.

 

Boy, I just have to say Rank Points would have been "my friend" yesterday. I came in 28th (ate 10 in my rifle and am slow). With rank points, I'd have been 21st. The guy with the SDQ who was 30th would have been 20th...

 

I still think they are :wacko:

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I like rank point scoring. I don't dislike total time scoring. I have many reasons. None that will change anyone's mind here.

 

I don't see the purpose for complaining about the scoring method. Well, maybe. Ok, The only group I can see that has a legitimate gripe about the scoring method are those competitors that like to shoot fast, only care about finishing order, and don't shoot for fun! They may have the impression that the scoring method helps or hurts them. It doesn't though. They do that to themselves.

 

 

Otherwise, where's the beef. Throw lead. Do your best. Celebrate for one and all. Have fun. Live long and prosper!

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One member of the Wild Bunch once told me the only reason for rank point scoring is to make it difficult to see who won until announced, to keep more folks around for the awards ceremonies at large matches. Seems like there are other ways to do this, I liked the earlier suggestion to only distribute daily scores to posses to review.

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Rank scoring in my opinion is exactly that. "RANK"

 

I will give you the most glaring example that I have seen so far.

 

At this years WR, due to illness, my wife was only able to shoot two stages.

When you look at the score sheet you will see that she beat 3 people in her category.

Who by the way shot the entire match. To take it a step further when you look at

the overall she beat 17 people. Not counting the no shows and the match DQ's.

 

How right or fair is that? Several years ago something was supposed to be done

to correct the problem of not shooting all stages and doing well in your category. What happened???

 

This has nothing to do with WR as this is our favorite shoot. I have said many times

that if I'm not at WR I'm either dead or in the hospital.

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Several years ago something was supposed to be done

to correct the problem of not shooting all stages and doing well in your category. What happened???

 

 

What is the "problem" with shooting well on a few stages and not being able to complete the match? Shouldn't the shooter be rewarded with a higher placement than a shooter that completed the match with so many rank points that they were at the bottom of the list. At least the shooter with the few stages had enuf rank points to stay off the bottom. That is the reward for doing well on the ones they shot.

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What is the "problem" with shooting well on a few stages and not being able to complete the match? Shouldn't the shooter be rewarded with a higher placement than a shooter that completed the match with so many rank points that they were at the bottom of the list.

In a word, Hell NO, well maybe two words. A few years ago, we shot a major two day match, weather was awful. Many shooters did not shoot the second day. When awards were handed out, several shooters that did not shoot the second day won awards over those that shot the whole match. Cowboys and Cowgirls were not happy. It was fixed the next year but the damage was done. Several close friends never went back to that match again they were so upset.

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Just for arguments sake. How many of you would prefer total time if the scores were not posted until after the match was completed (i.e. no proofs prior). That way the awards would still be a surprise but it would be based on total time?

+2 for the Ghosts

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In a word, Hell NO, well maybe two words. A few years ago, we shot a major two day match, weather was awful. Many shooters did not shoot the second day. When awards were handed out, several shooters that did not shoot the second day won awards over those that shot the whole match. Cowboys and Cowgirls were not happy. It was fixed the next year but the damage was done. Several close friends never went back to that match again they were so upset.

 

And, the ones that were griping are the ones that got beat I bet. If they had just shot a little better they COULD NOT have been beaten by someone that didn't shoot at all. Instead of complaining about getting beat, maybe they should spend more time practicing. But complaining is easier.

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And, the ones that were griping are the ones that got beat I bet. If they had just shot a little better they COULD NOT have been beaten by someone that didn't shoot at all. Instead of complaining about getting beat, maybe they should spend more time practicing. But complaining is easier.

When you are shooting silver senior or elderstatesman, and have been cowboy shooting for almost two decades like these folks were, both men and women, practice is not high on their priority list. Staying to shoot when it was very cold, blowing a bunch and sleeting and you stayed to shoot in that weather, you would seem to have a better claim on an award than someone that went home after the first day, those folks sure felt they did. I guess that is just me that agrees with them. Apparently the match director agreed also after the fact, as since then this club shoot application says you have to complete all stages to be eligible for any award.

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As a result of agenda item #1 passing at the 2011 TG Summit, the following was added to the "Scoring" section in the RO1:

 

The recommended score for not finishing a stage is a Stage Disqualification. Any competitor that fails to complete two or more stages in a match, for any reason, is not eligible for any main match awards.
RO1 p.23

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In RP scoring the winner is rewarded for being most CONSISTENT through the stages; if one makes mistakes, they can be costly and usually cannot be outrun.

 

Interesting word...this word "Consistancy.

 

So one person (Shooter A), shoots consistantly...and has a miss on a stage where the average time is 28 seconds.

 

His next closest competitor (Shooter B), has a miss on a different stage that has a average time of 31 seconds.

 

Both shot consistantly...

 

But Shooter A get a larger penalty for his/her miss...therefore each miss is given a value that not only varies on where one is on the Bell Curve, but also on where the miss occurs...of course this also applies to Procedurals and MSV's.

 

Consistancy is probably not the best word to describe RP's...

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Not only is consistAncy not the best word, it is not even a word.

 

Neither is consistAnt. But consistency and consistent are.

 

Firefox would tell ye that.

 

I know, let's have a speeling contest!! HAR!

 

Or not, I'd rather shoot. Let's just get out and shoot, RP or TT it don't matter. I am getting cabin fever. Just about every shoot the last two months has been canceled due to weather. I don't know how you pards whose clubs take all winter off can stand it.

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Not only is consistAncy not the best word, it is not even a word.

 

Neither is consistAnt. But consistency and consistent are.

 

Firefox would tell ye that.

 

I know, let's have a speeling contest!! HAR!

 

Or not, I'd rather shoot. Let's just get out and shoot, RP or TT it don't matter. I am getting cabin fever. Just about every shoot the last two months has been canceled due to weather. I don't know how you pards whose clubs take all winter off can stand it.

 

Yep - you've finally pruven you are a spelling Nazi...and a jerk.

 

Luzer!

 

Howz about adding something constructive to the discussion?

 

:wacko:

 

and pretty pathetic ...looking for CAS women????

 

:lol:

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Dang Phantom lighten up son. I was just foolin' about. You don't have to take such umbrage over such a minor thing. I just thot that since you seem to have adopted the word as one of your favoritest (and that is not a word), I might seize that perfect opportunity there to point it out to you. You did leave yerself wide open with the phrase "consistancy...might not be the word...". Sorry, I just could not resist and I should have, shame on me...

 

Silly me to think you might possibly remotely appreciate being told about the a and e thing. Silly me.

 

If I were a spelling nazi I would have jumped on the OP early on in the thread for the title "rank points at THERE (instead of their) worst", now wouldn't I? Nor would I have used the phrase "speeling contest", now would I? I keep explaining my affliction to you, but you don't want to understand, do you? For others here let me explain: it is an affliction akin to an OCD where the person has an overwhelming compulsion to correct others. I have had it all my life as my siblings will attest. It is the only affliction I know of that garners NO sympathy from others. Usually it only engenders defensiveness and other negative responses. In some it brings out livid anger, witness the above post.

 

I did add something constructive to the string, sir. Twice. With the above post that you didn't appreciate and an earlier one telling my story about why I like rank points. Pay attention. Don't worry I will continue to tell match directors not to put me on your posse. Keepin' it consistent.

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Dang Phantom lighten up son. I was just foolin' about. You don't have to take such umbrage over such a minor thing. I just thot that since you seem to have adopted the word as one of your favoritest (and that is not a word), I might seize that perfect opportunity there to point it out to you. You did leave yerself wide open with the phrase "consistancy...might not be the word...". Sorry, I just could not resist and I should have, shame on me...

 

Silly me to think you might possibly remotely appreciate being told about the a and e thing. Silly me.

 

If I were a spelling nazi I would have jumped on the OP early on in the thread for the title "rank points at THERE (instead of their) worst", now wouldn't I? Nor would I have used the phrase "speeling contest", now would I? I keep explaining my affliction to you, but you don't want to understand, do you? For others here let me explain: it is an affliction akin to an OCD where the person has an overwhelming compulsion to correct others. I have had it all my life as my siblings will attest. It is the only affliction I know of that garners NO sympathy from others. Usually it only engenders defensiveness and other negative responses. In some it brings out livid anger, witness the above post.

 

I did add something constructive to the string, sir. Twice. With the above post that you didn't appreciate and an earlier one telling my story about why I like rank points. Pay attention. Don't worry I will continue to tell match directors not to put me on your posse. Keepin' it consistent.

In a prior life you must have been a Nun with a big ruler. You seem amazed that folks do not like to be correctdd. Just stop it. Anything constructive you might add is lost in your compulshion to correct grammer and spelling.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

 

So one person (Shooter A), shoots consistantly...and has a miss on a stage where the average time is 28 seconds. Shooter B) shoots this stage also and a miss is 5 seconds added to the raw time!

 

His next closest competitor (Shooter B), has a miss on a different stage that has a average time of 31 seconds. Shooter A shoots this stage the same as everyone else and Shooter B) miss is 5 seconds added to the raw time!

 

Both shot consistantly...

 

But Shooter A get a larger penalty for his/her miss... The time (5 sec) added is the same regardless of how you choose to look at it. Trying to compare stage 1 and stage 3 is pointless. Everyone shoots both and has the same peril at each. In total time, on a fast stage more shooters can sneak by on that stage just the same. The argument for total time isn't each stage it's the entire match.

 

:FlagAm:

 

Consistent may not be the word... Others may have started gamier, or were younger, practiced more, are fleeter of foot, didn't say a line, could shoot through narrow windows better. So maybe "shoot well" is the terminology. If one doesn't shoot well then it isn't the cowboy way or SOG but ones own face in the mirror that acknowledges one didn't "shoot well" on that stage or the whole match. Like I said I can shoot either and am not mystified or somehow cheated by my times or the final score.

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In a prior life you must have been a Nun with a big ruler. You seem amazed that folks do not like to be correctdd. Just stop it. Anything constructive you might add is lost in your compulshion to correct grammer and spelling.

 

Well we all have our faults and foibles. I have acknowledged mine. And actually I do usually bite my tongue and sit on my hands. But the opening was just too good. I should not have done it but I did. Phantom told me years ago that if I just had to do it, I should do it by PM. And that's what I generally do. Except the 3 or 4 times I PMed him, he didn't reply. Oh well. Sometimes ole DJ (who is a Wire treasure for whom I have the utmost respect)will be thinkin' one thing and type another and I will PM him so he can edit. But mostly I don't feel the need for minor things. If I did, I would have 3 words for your post, corrected, compulshion (which I actually like) and grammar. But, like I say no biggee.

 

And then there was ole BJT (where is our pard lately I wonder?) who was always loosing. A PM to him was always good for a laff over his reply.

 

No I shouldn't a did it and I apologize for that right there and all the starvin' pygmies in New Guinea...

 

At least I served a purpose -- mayhaps just maybe he didn't have to kick the dog tonight after venting on me and maybe just maybe it took a little heat off poor ole TJB. Altho if it's true that TJB is sending hateful and profane PMs, shame on him.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Well we all have our faults and foibles. I have acknowledged mine. And actually I do usually bite my tongue and sit on my hands. But the opening was just too good. I should not have done it but I did. Phantom told me years ago that if I just had to do it, I should do it by PM. And that's what I generally do. Except the 3 or 4 times I PMed him, he didn't reply. Oh well. Sometimes ole DJ (who is a Wire treasure for whom I have the utmost respect)will be thinkin' one thing and type another and I will PM him so he can edit. But mostly I don't feel the need for minor things. If I did, I would have 3 words for your post, corrected, compulshion (which I actually like) and grammar. But, like I say no biggee.

 

And then there was ole BJT (where is our pard lately I wonder?) who was always loosing. A PM to him was always good for a laff over his reply.

 

No I shouldn't a did it and I apologize for that right there and all the starvin' pygmies in New Guinea...

 

At least I served a purpose -- mayhaps just maybe he didn't have to kick the dog tonight after venting on me and maybe just maybe it took a little heat off poor ole TJB. Altho if it's true that TJB is sending hateful and profane PMs, shame on him.

 

I would not waste my time sending rude and profane messages to Phantom. I enjoy reading Phantoms rants it reminds me of a child who pulls a tantrum when he can not have his own way. :D

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Well we all have our faults and foibles. I have acknowledged mine. And actually I do usually bite my tongue and sit on my hands. But the opening was just too good. I should not have done it but I did. Phantom told me years ago that if I just had to do it, I should do it by PM. And that's what I generally do. Except the 3 or 4 times I PMed him, he didn't reply. Oh well. Sometimes ole DJ (who is a Wire treasure for whom I have the utmost respect)will be thinkin' one thing and type another and I will PM him so he can edit. But mostly I don't feel the need for minor things. If I did, I would have 3 words for your post, corrected, compulshion (which I actually like) and grammar. But, like I say no biggee.

 

And then there was ole BJT (where is our pard lately I wonder?) who was always loosing. A PM to him was always good for a laff over his reply.

 

No I shouldn't a did it and I apologize for that right there and all the starvin' pygmies in New Guinea...

 

At least I served a purpose -- mayhaps just maybe he didn't have to kick the dog tonight after venting on me and maybe just maybe it took a little heat off poor ole TJB. Altho if it's true that TJB is sending hateful and profane PMs, shame on him.

Is Phantom still blowing smoke about some trumped up claim of nasty e-mails. I enjoy his rants, Makes this long winter more enjoyable. :)

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Rank Scoring doesn't reward consistency, because the stages aren't consistent. A miss on one stage has larger impact on the score than a miss on another stage. How is that consistent? There could be two shooters with the exact penalties earned, and the shooter with the faster time could still finish behind the shooter with a slower time. If you are gonna miss, at least don't miss on a stand and deliver stage!

 

The reason the stages don't matter inidvidually is because the shooter's "placement" on each are added together to calculate a total. A shooter could come in first 5 out of 6 stages (earning him 5 Rank Points) - have a stage DQ on #6 which would earn him a whole bunch of Rank Points. All Rank Scoring does is tells us what number to add together to get a total outcome. Total Time is calculated exactly the same way. The only thing different is the number we are adding together.

 

That being said, Total Time should "rank" first in all SASS Matches! KCD

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I would not waste my time sending rude and profane messages to Phantom. I enjoy reading Phantoms rants it reminds me of a child who pulls a tantrum when he can not have his own way. :D

 

Ha!

 

You're a liar...that's a fact.

 

And believe it or not, I have a life. Don't need to read PM's that do nothing but try and improve my spelling.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Ha!

 

You're a liar...that's a fact.

 

And believe it or not, I have a life. Don't need to read PM's that do nothing but try and improve my spelling.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

Talk is cheap, so as we enter into spring I must remind you again read the SOG it is evident that your constant attacks on anyone who disagrees with you is a result of a troubled childhood.I have invited you on several occasions to join me on fishing and hunting trips so we could discuss old times you are still bitter after all these years .I wish you well and maybe someday you will understand that the bitterness you carry will only destroy you and those around you.

 

Best wishes

 

T J B

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Guest Texas Jack Black

If Phantom keeps wire whining we could break a new record. :lol: :lol:

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If Phantom keeps wire whining we could break a new record. :lol: :lol:

 

New record, not hardly. Broken record, yes.

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page 7 soon to be :lol:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

I wonder if this post will make page 7, oh I hope so

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Guest Texas Jack Black

7 PAGE SEVEN HERE WE GO .We need to hurry up winters almost over . 777777777777777777777777777777 :lol: :lol: This is the most fun thread since GCK was trying to explain the definition of OPEN and CLOSED :lol: 7

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The next one oughta bring it to page 7 (@ 35 posts per page) ;)

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