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Shotgun Bandit

Rank points at there worst

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I don't care about Rank Points or spelling, I just like to smell powder burn.........

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I wonder if this post will make page 7, oh I hope so

 

It did now :lol: ...better late than never!

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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lsts see if u r right, lol

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I like to think I have an open mind on most subjects and try to avoid the no win subjects like this one. BUT after reading the article Tex published this month it makes me wonder how can CAS every be viewed as a legitimate shooting sport when we have a scoring system so inequitable as rank point scoring. When I talk to shooters from other disciplines and try to discribe rank point scoring they just shake there heads. Mainly because we are thowing everybody into the same bucket and then after we tabulate the rank points as a whole we divide them into seperate catagories.

 

I would love to see rank scoring go away.

 

I did like that he highlighted the post from Lead Despencer. I do agree that we need to raise up the champions in our sport. They have earned it!!!

 

Rowdy

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The only thing thats more rank than rank points....is this thread

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I just read this 'cause I wanted to see what Smokey Shanye said. :lol:

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Now what makes you think I would say something interesting? LOL

 

I met a shooter at a match a couple years ago. A few of us were standing around talking when he walked up and introduced himself. We all introduced ourselves. When I told him who I was, he said "yeah, I've seen you on the wire" Then he walked away without saying another word....and didnt speak to me again all day. Guess I said something interesting that he didnt like.

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Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA.

BT

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Guest Texas Jack Black

I like to think I have an open mind on most subjects and try to avoid the no win subjects like this one. BUT after reading the article Tex published this month it makes me wonder how can CAS every be viewed as a legitimate shooting sport when we have a scoring system so inequitable as rank point scoring. When I talk to shooters from other disciplines and try to discribe rank point scoring they just shake there heads. Mainly because we are thowing everybody into the same bucket and then after we tabulate the rank points as a whole we divide them into seperate catagories.

 

I would love to see rank scoring go away.

 

I did like that he highlighted the post from Lead Despencer. I do agree that we need to raise up the champions in our sport. They have earned it!!!

 

Rowdy

 

Now you have gone and done it ,If you think rank points are hard to explain try to explain how we arrive at TOP OVERALL when we have so many different categories with so many age groups and then we say top overall is the best of the best. Now maybe we can move this along to 14 pages

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Now you have gone and done it ,If you think rank points are hard to explain try to explain how we arrive at TOP OVERALL when we have so many different categories with so many age groups and then we say top overall is the best of the best. Now maybe we can move this along to 14 pages

Howdy TJB,

 

I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA.

BT

 

 

Tom,

 

Do the scores from the open class affect the the scores from the production class? If not, it makes perfect sense.

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Tom,

 

Do the scores from the open class affect the the scores from the production class? If not, it makes perfect sense.

 

NO THEY DON"T !!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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The one thing that should be amended with rank points is that a stage DQ ought to be worth 1000 rank points or more. Any DQ should take you out of the running no matter how fast you are, how short the match, how small the pond. A recent match illustrated the necessity of this. I won't say it wasn't fair because that sounds high pitched and offensive to the ears, but it made me chuckle when I read the scoresheet. I see what RRR was referring to so passionately. I'd like to be upset, but I'm just here to have fun, shoot fast and on ocasional...hit something.

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USPSA scores based on weighted stages with hit factor being the deciding element of winning the stage and match. Points earned divided by stage time. Classes are all separated with the highest hit factor for each stage getting 100% of the stage points.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Howdy TJB,

 

I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating.

 

Regards,

 

Allie M

 

 

Morning Allie I read your post But now I ask is it fair ? How can there be a case for leaving TOP OVERALL which is UN- Fair and then say Rank Points make no sense?

I think another 7 pages should be in order

 

 

Best Wishes

 

T J B

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I understand that USPSA's scoring system is different. The point I was triing to make was in reply to the original post of how terrible it was that the fasster guy didn't win even thought he tanked a stage. I didn't see that this post had mutated from that to everybody else is effecting my rank points.

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I see rank points as part of the challenge of a match. If a stage is a fast stage, I understand a miss will have worse consequences than a miss on a slow stage. I also understand that a miss Might cost a faster shooter fewer rank points on stage than a miss On that same stage by someone else. It's just part of it. I don't mind it in the least and in fact kind of like it.

 

The scoring method used for a match is not a factor in my determination to attend.

 

Possum

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Howdy TJB,

 

I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Morning Allie I read your post But now I ask is it fair ? How can there be a case for leaving TOP OVERALL which is UN- Fair and then say Rank Points make no sense?

I think another 7 pages should be in order

 

 

Best Wishes

 

T J B

Hi again,

 

My post was intended to present my view of why it is fair to award "the best." Maybe, it could be better stated as "the fastest, most flawless shooter." I think it is a worthy award, regardless of scoring method.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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whew

7 pages now

 

it ought ta wind down prutty soon :lol::huh::lol:

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I like rank points and am not real interested in shooting a total time match. The reason being I'm not as fast as the fastest but I can compete if I do my job and shoot my best, cleanest and fastest shoot. If you mess up in one stage and I didn't, then I probably gained some ground on you as far as standings go. More folks have a chance at winning w/ rank points if they just do "their part". That's all I ask for, a chance.

 

Folks want authenticity in this sport. The way I look at it Rank points put you as close to the old west gunfighter as possible. Who wins a gunfight? the guy who draws the quickest and doesn't score his first shot or the guy who hits his first two shots but is slower? The guy whose gun misfires doesn't say "let's see who wins two out of three". Maybe both go down but plain speed doesn't do it - there's a lot more to the game than overall time/speed.

 

Just a note from someone whose tired of seeing seven pages of rank point bashing.

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I like rank points and am not real interested in shooting a total time match. The reason being I'm not as fast as the fastest but I can compete if I do my job and shoot my best, cleanest and fastest shoot. If you mess up in one stage and I didn't, then I probably gained some ground on you as far as standings go. More folks have a chance at winning w/ rank points if they just do "their part". That's all I ask for, a chance.

 

Folks want authenticity in this sport. The way I look at it Rank points put you as close to the old west gunfighter as possible. Who wins a gunfight? the guy who draws the quickest and doesn't score his first shot or the guy who hits his first two shots but is slower? The guy whose gun misfires doesn't say "let's see who wins two out of three". Maybe both go down but plain speed doesn't do it - there's a lot more to the game than overall time/speed.

 

Just a note from someone whose tired of seeing seven pages of rank point bashing.

Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want.

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"Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA."

 

Even in a SASS total time match, the winner is not the shooter with the fastest raw time. Of course if the shooter with the lowest raw time also shoots a clean match, he is the winner. Otherwise, It's the shooter with the lowest total time (raw time +misses+ other penalties). Smokin Gator

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Guest Texas Jack Black

"Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA."

 

Even in a SASS total time match, the winner is not the shooter with the fastest raw time. Of course if the shooter with the lowest raw time also shoots a clean match, he is the winner. Otherwise, It's the shooter with the lowest total time (raw time +misses+ other penalties). Smokin Gator

 

Well said, years ago I had the opportunity to talk with three WB members and all three said RP will be with us until they pass on.

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Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want.

 

or maybe

they like it..... that national finials and world championship

...............has different scoreing....................

to see how the contest-ants can addjust to a mental shift

and hold it, for a three day main match event

 

or

maybe not :lol::lol::lol:

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or maybe

they like it..... that national finials and world championship

...............has different scoreing....................

to see how the contest-ants can addjust to a mental shift

and hold it, for a three day main match event

 

or

maybe not :lol::lol::lol:

Maybe SASS should see what their customers want.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Usually when a customer doesn't get what he wants he does not buy the product again SO, if you keep paying your dues you basically are saying you approve of the product.

This is a great winter debate that will go nowhere RP serve a purpose and it is what the ones in charge want. ;)

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Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want.

 

 

You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting.

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You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting.

I would be happy with whatever the outcome of a vote.

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You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting.

Hi Lone Doggie,

 

Even if the vote was for WR and EOT to keep Rank Scoring ;), we would be no worse off. Maybe we could save some bandwidth. :unsure:

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Guest Texas Jack Black

If SASS did go to just TT what would be accomplished.?

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WB has voted!!

 

You are not happy.

The vote suggestion was to see what the SASS customers want. But you knew that and were just being a butt head.

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