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Shotgun Bandit

Rank points at there worst

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For the 6th or 7th year in a row you can still quote me on this one.

 

"Rank Points suck!"

 

Since state match directors can chose to use total time why not let the shooters who go to the National and World championship matches have a say in what they want. Freedom of choice... Right now rank points are manditory for these two matches. At least give the match director's discretion to make the matches total time at a minimum the same as a state match director.

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FWIW, there is a difference in why we don't have FCGF vs. why we have rank scoring. In the case of FCGF, it got a chance to be voted on and while the majority wanted it, it failed to get the two-thirds majority needed from the clubs (via TG's). That could change and I believe it will given more time. I also believe the Wild Bunch wants this category. I base that belief on the fact that it was offered as a category at EOT in 2011 and is again on the application for 2012.

 

Regarding rank points, it is my understanding that the Wild Bunch has kept them alive and that makes sense since the requirement to use rank points only applies to regional and above matches. While some think that rank scoring will never be done away with and that discussion here on the Wire and elsewhere will always fall on deaf ears, I don't believe that is necessarily the case as I do believe the Wild Bunch has their ear to the ground. Only time will tell.

The Wild Bunch has been listening a bit more of recent. An example was the overloading rifle rule that failed to pass the TGs a couple of times but the Wild Bunch implemented unilaterally. The Wild Bunch has been slowly changing EOT, maybe this rank point scoring change will be made in an effort to make the majority of the shooters happy.

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So basically rank points suck because:

It doesn't kill a shooter completely for an equipment failure over a long match.

It doesn't prevent a middle of the pack shooter from leaping out of his peer group by shooting a strong stage.

Someone can theoretically shoot faster than you and be consistently mediocre, but you can beat them by having a great stage here and there.

 

I'm not seeing where rank points are bad. It makes this discipline of shooting different and unique. If you don't like it, don't shoot that level. The good shooters are going to be at the top of the pack regardless. They are more efficient and better than the rest. Deuce said it when he talked about his breakage costing him High Overall. It would've had the same result either way the match was scored. The winner will always be the one that shoots the fastest and cleanest.

 

Sounds like shooters who have peaked in their ability grasping at straws trying to get an extra inch on the scoresheet. I'm a middle pack shooter respectfully saying this. Every inch I have gained has been from choking on smoke at the range, overcoming pinched fingers and improper techniques and practicing until the sweat runs down my face. C'mon leave it be, it ain't broke.

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So basically rank points suck because:

It doesn't kill a shooter completely for an equipment failure over a long match.

It doesn't prevent a middle of the pack shooter from leaping out of his peer group by shooting a strong stage.

Someone can theoretically shoot faster than you and be consistently mediocre, but you can beat them by having a great stage here and there.

 

I'm not seeing where rank points are bad. It makes this discipline of shooting different and unique. If you don't like it, don't shoot that level. The good shooters are going to be at the top of the pack regardless. They are more efficient and better than the rest. Deuce said it when he talked about his breakage costing him High Overall. It would've had the same result either way the match was scored. The winner will always be the one that shoots the fastest and cleanest.

 

Sounds like shooters who have peaked in their ability grasping at straws trying to get an extra inch on the scoresheet. I'm a middle pack shooter respectfully saying this. Every inch I have gained has been from choking on smoke at the range, overcoming pinched fingers and improper techniques and practicing until the sweat runs down my face. C'mon leave it be, it ain't broke.

I can tell ye one thing an I have not met you yet sir, Tha guy who came up with Rank SCORING was a medicore shooter looking for a way to best a better shooter! And I promise you there is no more competitive shooter here than I or one who will give you a better chance ta beat him.

I walked upon tha final stage of a Regional match clean, Jacked out one rifle round an had to reload. Won tha match by 3 seconds an came in third OA. Tha top 3 were all clean! RS benifits no damn body evenly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Trust me

 

 

RRR

 

RRR

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The winner will always be the one that shoots the fastest and cleanest.

 

I think we basically agree, but actually rank points can prevent the "fastest" from winning. All that is needed to prove that is to look at the recent scores at Winter Range. We agree that neither scoring system is going to put a middle-of-the-pack shooter in front of a top shooter unless the top shooter crashes and burns repeatedly.

 

 

 

 

 

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it has ben said be4

 

most shoots that do rank points are above the state championship level

 

facts

once a shooter develops his shooting skills

then after that it become consentration / mental

allowing your body to do what it already knows how to do (practice)

 

top shoots now

become mostly a mental game

go to a top shooting school, and they will most likely back up what I just said

 

folks that do not understand that (simple concept)

total time vs rank

perhaps, are not ready for the step from, practice / learned skills

to applying them over a three day match

 

winning in top shoot, is 98%................. mostly a mental game

 

so who cares

what the scoring system is

 

adjust your mind for the race track condintions for three days of competition

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it has ben said............. be4

 

most shoots that do rank points are above::: the state championship level

 

facts

once a shooter develops his shooting skills

then after that it become consentration / mental

allowing your body to do

............................what your body, already knows how to do (practice)

 

top shoots if you really want to place HIGH

.................................................become mostly a mental game

go to a top shooting school, and they will most likely back up what I just said

 

folks that do not understand that (simple concept) (skill first>>>> then mental skill rocks-way-more)

total time vs rank

perhaps, a lot of shooter

are not ready for the step from,

practice / learned skills

to applying them over a three day match (proper feeding / hydrate the body to physcially perform, and mind control / cofindence to allow the body to do its work)

 

winning in top shoot, is 98%................. mostly a mental game

 

so who cares

what the scoring system is

 

adjust your mind for the race track condintions for three days of competition

 

what the shooters that storm off after a stage

bet they dont finish well in the long run

no matter the scoring system ;););)

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No Mike, your supposition just ain't so everywhere. Maybe all the shoots around your parts are TT but down here they are mostly all still RP. We have always been RP from day one back in the early 90s and I hope we stay that way.

 

The highest overall I ever finished was 2nd and that was with a Stage DQ on stage one when for the first and onliest time I dropped an empty revolver in the dirt. There were 3 reasons. Most important is that all the hot shoes were gone to Land Run. Second was that since I already had a SDQ I threw caution to the winds on 2 thru 6 and blazed away to an awesome (at least to me, a middle of the pack duffer) finish. And third of course was because of rank points.

 

Been a big fan of rank points ever since. The wailing and gnashing of teeth of those I beat that day was truly enjoyable. Of course the 1st place guy would of still beat me even if I hadn't had a SDQ.

 

Lots of folks prefer RP. Even some hot shoes. I believe Nuttin' is one IIRC. The thing is the contented don't chime in on these threads. The disgruntled total time fanciers are WAY more likely to give voice to their discontent.

 

Yeah Buck the WB may be listening more and more but to their credit they have yet to be stampeded to tossing RP just because of a loud hue and cry. My hat is off to them for that.

 

RP today, RP tomorrow, RP forever!

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Guest Texas Jack Black
:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

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Rewards Consistancey ??????

Horse Hockey !!!!

 

Beat a fellow in 7 of ten stages ,,, Winnig 70% of the stages over shooter B

 

Beat him by over 30 seconds in TT

 

Have only ONE miss to his THREE misses

 

Let's SEE You beat Him in TT and you beat him on 70% of the stages shot ...

 

He beat You Only in getting the greater Number of Misses !!!

 

So his reward is though he three times as many misses as you , only beat you on 30% of the stages, and shot 7 out of 10 stages slower than you, Thanks to RANK POINTS he beats you in the standings ....

 

His misses 3 in number cost him over 30 rank points Less than your ONE (1) miss ,,,, Rank Points is real Fair !!! NOT !!!

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I wonder if we can save this thread and simply re-run it after EOT? Would save everyone a lot of heartburn having to argue about this again in a couple of months.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

I wonder if we can save this thread and simply re-run it after EOT? Would save everyone a lot of heartburn having to argue about this again in a couple of months.

 

Haha!! Hopefully the numbers will line up better at EOT than they did at WR. The WR scores this year had the most examples of rank flipping I have seen in some time. Usually there are only a couple. In the hotly contested categories 10 or 15 seconds is gonna kill ya no matter.

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I wonder if we can save this thread and simply re-run it after EOT? Would save everyone a lot of heartburn having to argue about this again in a couple of months.

 

Yep!!

 

Or we can just wait till next week for the rerun.

 

And the Whiners will still attend.

 

And 90% of the people will remain in the middle of the pac.

 

And 98% of the people don't care.

 

And half the people that the flip flop scoring affected are happy and the other half are sad....this time,,,, and next time,,,, perhaps not.

 

Or the shooters can cherry pick, I mean claim jumping, pick their catagory/shoot better..LOL.

 

The crowd I shoot with, we can not give up a miss or even a bobble during the entire match and expect to win over the next. And we don't whine about it either, because there is always next time.

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I wonder if we can save this thread and simply re-run it after EOT? Would save everyone a lot of heartburn having to argue about this again in a couple of months.

 

you got my vote, to do it :lol::lol::lol:

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Rewards Consistancey ??????

Horse Hockey !!!!

 

Beat a fellow in 7 of ten stages ,,, Winnig 70% of the stages over shooter B

 

Beat him by over 30 seconds in TT

 

Have only ONE miss to his THREE misses

 

Let's SEE You beat Him in TT and you beat him on 70% of the stages shot ...

 

He beat You Only in getting the greater Number of Misses !!!

 

So his reward is though he three times as many misses as you , only beat you on 30% of the stages, and shot 7 out of 10 stages slower than you, Thanks to RANK POINTS he beats you in the standings ....

 

His misses 3 in number cost him over 30 rank points Less than your ONE (1) miss ,,,, Rank Points is real Fair !!! NOT !!!

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

I would love to see a stage by stage breakdown. Where can we look at the scores? I'm feeling Paul Harvey in my bones; I want to hear "the rest of the story."

 

 

 

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I will ask the question again. Are SASS matches scored by beating the greatest number of shooters in an overall match or who shot the fastest - which both include penalties and bonuses to calculate the final outcome? The reason why I ask again is because the answer will define the purpose of why we are keeping score in the first place; to determine the winning shooter and subsequently places of all the other contestants. Are we awarding first place to the shooter that beats the greatest number of shooters? Or, are awarding the shooter who shoots the fastest? I don't know the answer. Rank Scoring does not award consistency. Rank Scoring does not automaticly give slower shooters a chance to score higher in the standings. But, what it does do, is calculate how many shooters each shooter beats in the overall match. Is that a legitmate definition of the standings in a match? KCD

 

I believe you captured the intent of both scoring methods. It actually gets back to measurement theory, which is not always as simple as we would think. Some thoughts on scoring

 

For rank scoring - it is how many shooters you beat and the overall time is secondary (used only in case shooters tie in rank points).

For total time, it doesn't matter how many shooters you beat in the stages, but who had the lowest overall time.

 

Either method is valid and have been used for many years in SASS.

 

But as you can see for comments on the wire, many folks seem to understand the concept of total time easier. Total time is more forgiving for slight bobbles and misses. Rank scoring depends greatly on the shooters that are present and depends on fairly close competition. If the competition is not pretty close (someone is way behind or the top shooter is much faster, it doesn't work as well as designed. So for smaller matches (less than 40 shooters or so), total works as advertised. For larger matches rank can be a very effective measurement.

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Well it's great to have hostile naysayers. I didn't realize that you guys were sponsored shooters and your table food was provided by your scoresheet standings. I appologize for daring to question your wisdom.

Ray,

I think that you should try looking at it as designed so that an upset could happen and sometimes does. It seems a little narrow minded to look at it as just plain unfair and that it doesn't benefit anybody evenly. If it's uneven for everyone then it's fair. Somehow the phrases "no more competitive than I" and "a better chance to beat me" don't belong together. If you were as competitive as you imply than clearly you would not be giving others numerous opportunities to defeat you. It's hard to be competitive minded when you make mistakes that you opponents exploit to sit above you on the score sheet.

Jabez,

So you failed to beat the other fellow thirty percent of the time? Apparently, that was all the window he needed to slide by you according to the scoring system that was in place. If you keep bellyaching about what might have been in total time land you might as well just hang up your six guns because you might ding up the grips rolling around throwing a tantrum. That's NOT FAIR to whomever should inherit them and kills resale value. If you shoot USPSA do you complain about the weighted stages too? Well he only beat me on three stages....they all happened to be high value field courses, but that shouldn't matter. As Mike stated these things are both mental and physical endurance events. The box we play in says SASS on the lid, but new boxes are made everyday.

 

To the other members of the forum:

The above was all intended as sarcastic retort to less than well founded arguments made in a less than congenial tone. I apologize to any of you that may have taken offense to my remarks.

Best Regards,

Carolina Gunslinger

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Well it's great to have hostile naysayers. I didn't realize that you guys were sponsored shooters and your table food was provided by your scoresheet standings. I appologize for daring to question your wisdom.

Ray,

I think that you should try looking at it as designed so that an upset could happen and sometimes does. It seems a little narrow minded to look at it as just plain unfair and that it doesn't benefit anybody evenly. If it's uneven for everyone then it's fair. Somehow the phrases "no more competitive than I" and "a better chance to beat me" don't belong together. If you were as competitive as you imply than clearly you would not be giving others numerous opportunities to defeat you. It's hard to be competitive minded when you make mistakes that you opponents exploit to sit above you on the score sheet.

Jabez,

So you failed to beat the other fellow thirty percent of the time? Apparently, that was all the window he needed to slide by you according to the scoring system that was in place. If you keep bellyaching about what might have been in total time land you might as well just hang up your six guns because you might ding up the grips rolling around throwing a tantrum. That's NOT FAIR to whomever should inherit them and kills resale value. If you shoot USPSA do you complain about the weighted stages too? Well he only beat me on three stages....they all happened to be high value field courses, but that shouldn't matter. As Mike stated these things are both mental and physical endurance events. The box we play in says SASS on the lid, but new boxes are made everyday.

 

To the other members of the forum:

The above was all intended as sarcastic retort to less than well founded arguments made in a less than congenial tone. I apologize to any of you that may have taken offense to my remarks.

Best Regards,

Carolina Gunslinger

If what you say is true, why have so many clubs reverted back to total time that earlier went to rank point scoring? Why have most state championships reverted to total time scoring? Answer, that is what the majority of the shooters want. If the majority of the clubs/shooters want to use total time scoring, why won't the Wild Bunch even allow a vote on the issue?

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Well it's great to have hostile naysayers. I didn't realize that you guys were sponsored shooters and your table food was provided by your scoresheet standings. I appologize for daring to question your wisdom.

Ray,

I think that you should try looking at it as designed so that an upset could happen and sometimes does. It seems a little narrow minded to look at it as just plain unfair and that it doesn't benefit anybody evenly. If it's uneven for everyone then it's fair. Somehow the phrases "no more competitive than I" and "a better chance to beat me" don't belong together. If you were as competitive as you imply than clearly you would not be giving others numerous opportunities to defeat you. It's hard to be competitive minded when you make mistakes that you opponents exploit to sit above you on the score sheet.

Jabez,

So you failed to beat the other fellow thirty percent of the time? Apparently, that was all the window he needed to slide by you according to the scoring system that was in place. If you keep bellyaching about what might have been in total time land you might as well just hang up your six guns because you might ding up the grips rolling around throwing a tantrum. That's NOT FAIR to whomever should inherit them and kills resale value. If you shoot USPSA do you complain about the weighted stages too? Well he only beat me on three stages....they all happened to be high value field courses, but that shouldn't matter. As Mike stated these things are both mental and physical endurance events. The box we play in says SASS on the lid, but new boxes are made everyday.

 

To the other members of the forum:

The above was all intended as sarcastic retort to less than well founded arguments made in a less than congenial tone. I apologize to any of you that may have taken offense to my remarks.

Best Regards,

Carolina Gunslinger

 

Wow, just wow. :huh: You won't see people 'sitting above' RRR on the score sheet very often. You might want to go back and check some regional and state scores, maybe do a little research. Then after you've pulled your foot, calf, knee and thigh out of your mouth you could graciously retract that statement.

 

If I'm ever fortunate enough to end up ahead of RRR on a score sheet I'll know I'm one of the very best shooters in SASS.

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The four local clubs I shoot with split on this issue, two do RP and the other two TT. I haven't noticed much difference between the two, I usually end up somewhere between 4th and 10th overall, with the same guys above and below me on the score sheet. I have noticed that I haven't ever been beaten on RP while having a better TT, but I have finished ahead on RP while having a worse TT, not sure what that means other than maybe a faster shooter had a bad stage. I'm happy to be able to shoot using either method, maybe when I get better I'll develop a preference.

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Rewards Consistancey ??????

Horse Hockey !!!!

Beat a fellow in 7 of ten stages ,,, Winnig 70% of the stages over shooter B

Beat him by over 30 seconds in TT

Have only ONE miss to his THREE misses

Let's SEE You beat Him in TT and you beat him on 70% of the stages shot ...

He beat You Only in getting the greater Number of Misses !!!

So his reward is though he three times as many misses as you , only beat you on 30% of the stages, and shot 7 out of 10 stages slower than you, Thanks to RANK POINTS he beats you in the standings ....

His misses 3 in number cost him over 30 rank points Less than your ONE (1) miss ,,,, Rank Points is real Fair !!! NOT !!!

Jabez Cowboy

We don't shoot in a vacuum, Shooter A vs Shooter B arguments ignore what the rest of the field has done. On those 3 stages you LOST to Shooter B, how many other shooters whupped up on ya? You continue to look at this as a race from the 1st shot on stage one to the last shot on the final stage, IT IS NOT. Deal with it.

 

How is a rally race scored? Is it not scored based on how close you come to the "ideal" or target time for each stage of the rally? And really, who cares what a trap or skeet shooter thinks of this system? Time is of no concern to them, they have from the time the bird clears the house till it hits the ground to break it. Maybe you'd rather have the scoring based on hits, onnly use time to break ties? Rank points is a unique sooring system to SASS. AND, in fact, pre-dates the formation of SASS.

 

Frankly, every time I read where a shooter describes an instance where RPs cost him a placement, or robbed him, because the other shooter finished the match with fewer rank points, but a greater total time, my cynical self sez, "sour grapes." Be honest, has RP never helped you? THE ONLY arguments I've heard that hold water are Phantom's about inequality of how penalties affect scores from stage to stage and from the various pools of shooters, top to middle to bottom. The other is the use of overall ranking for category placement.

 

Neither of which, apparently, obviates the desire to have individual placements on stages accrue the same weight to the final.

 

Duece, your story of "soldiering on" in the face of such adversity IS the hallmark of a true champion. Congrats on meeting that goal, AND the clean match.

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I believe that most clubs have gone to total time scoring out of convenience to the stats personnel. It's easiest to manipulate the excel spreadsheet to accommodate this method versus having to get the formulas and such set up to rank each shooter by stage and tally that all up in summary.

Capt. Bill Burt,

I have done a tidbit of research and found that I have chastised the reigning Wrangler winter range champion. Smooth move on my part....not!

Red River Ray,

I must congratulate you on your victory and humbly appologize for my ignorance of the fact. It's obvious that you are both highly competitive and competitive minded. I failed to pick up on your understatement of your abilities causing a grossly erroneous statement on my part for which I appologize. However, I continue to disagree with you on the point of rank points citing that it makes SASS different and unique.

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I believe that most clubs have gone to total time scoring out of convenience to the stats personnel. It's easiest to manipulate the excel spreadsheet to accommodate this method versus having to get the formulas and such set up to rank each shooter by stage and tally that all up in summary.

Capt. Bill Burt,

I have done a tidbit of research and found that I have chastised the reigning Wrangler winter range champion. Smooth move on my part....not!

Red River Ray,

I must congratulate you on your victory and humbly appologize for my ignorance of the fact. It's obvious that you are both highly competitive and competitive minded. I failed to pick up on your understatement of your abilities causing a grossly erroneous statement on my part for which I appologize. However, I continue to disagree with you on the point of rank points citing that it makes SASS different and unique.

Sign of a true cowboy! ;)

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I believe that most clubs have gone to total time scoring out of convenience to the stats personnel. It's easiest to manipulate the excel spreadsheet to accommodate this method versus having to get the formulas and such set up to rank each shooter by stage and tally that all up in summary.

Capt. Bill Burt,

I have done a tidbit of research and found that I have chastised the reigning Wrangler winter range champion. Smooth move on my part....not!

Red River Ray,

I must congratulate you on your victory and humbly appologize for my ignorance of the fact. It's obvious that you are both highly competitive and competitive minded. I failed to pick up on your understatement of your abilities causing a grossly erroneous statement on my part for which I appologize. However, I continue to disagree with you on the point of rank points citing that it makes SASS different and unique.

Most of the clubs we shoot with switched to rank scoring and used the standard scoring program which can do either method just as easily. These clubs then switched back over to total time, the last several years because that is what the shooters wanted. Same thing with club multi day shoots and state championships. I saw a post last time this was discussed and it showed that over half the state championships were no longer using rank scoring, even tho until recently SASS required them to do so.

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If I'm ever fortunate enough to end up ahead of RRR on a score sheet I'll know I'm one of the very best shooters in SASS.

 

Nothing against RRR, but he could drop a loaded gun and that would allow you be ahead of him on the score sheet. ;)

 

 

Case in point.... A lot of people placed higher on the score sheet than JT Wild at WR2012. Just some bad luck is all with JT.

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Point taken. ;)

 

I meant that statement more as a compliment to his ability than a literal milestone of my progress. I've already finished ahead of shooters who are faster than me, they just had bad days and I didn't.

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I really like rank points. Its like eating a box a cracker jacks, you don't know until the end what your going to get! Do they still put prizes in cracker jack boxes?

 

My 2 cents is that its harder to shoot rank points than TT. If your always shooting rank point matches then go to a TT match i find that there is no change in the way you play the game. Going the other way (TT to rank) i think requires a change in way you shoot the match. In a TT, if your the top dog a miss or two you could likely still outrun your nearest competitor. In a rank match a miss and your going home most likely in the top five. I think it makes shooters have to shoot better.

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I really like rank points. Its like eating a box a cracker jacks, you don't know until the end what your going to get! Do they still put prizes in cracker jack boxes?

 

My 2 cents is that its harder to shoot rank points than TT. If your always shooting rank point matches then go to a TT match i find that there is no change in the way you play the game. Going the other way (TT to rank) i think requires a change in way you shoot the match. In a TT, if your the top dog a miss or two you could likely still outrun your nearest competitor. In a rank match a miss and your going home most likely in the top five. I think it makes shooters have to shoot better.

 

 

That is my problem.

 

I have only one goal, one method in shooting either a RP or TT match. Fast as I can while being in contorl and clean. If I do that, then I am a winner, regardless where I place.

 

Blastmaster

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I believe that most clubs have gone to total time scoring out of convenience to the stats personnel. It's easiest to manipulate the excel spreadsheet to accommodate this method versus having to get the formulas and such set up to rank each shooter by stage and tally that all up in summary.

Capt. Bill Burt,

I have done a tidbit of research and found that I have chastised the reigning Wrangler winter range champion. Smooth move on my part....not!

Red River Ray,

I must congratulate you on your victory and humbly appologize for my ignorance of the fact. It's obvious that you are both highly competitive and competitive minded. I failed to pick up on your understatement of your abilities causing a grossly erroneous statement on my part for which I appologize. However, I continue to disagree with you on the point of rank points citing that it makes SASS different and unique.

 

 

 

First off let me appologize for my ignorance of the English language that you convey so well.

 

Competitive? Its in me, can't change it!

Better chance ta beat me? I was refering to tha wearing of chaps, spurs, cuffs etc. when I don't haft to. Does it change my match? You try it both ways an see.

 

Sponsored shooters? :lol:

 

As far as making it by tha sweat of tha brow and smoke on tha practice range. Well there are several in this game that put in probably more practice rounds and more sweat than tha famous tv shooters!

 

Appologize ta me? Shit, for what :P

 

I've won an lost to RP system, it makes victory less sweet and losing worse when you know it was a scoring system that did it an not another shooter. A miss on stage 4 is NOT tha same as a miss on stage 5, here's tha hat draw out your penalty.

 

We have a timer, we keep time, we add penalties for misses an brain farts! Why does one need to do more figgerin??????????? One reason, to alter tha outcome of the match :wacko:

 

See ya somewheres another

 

RRR

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If I'm ever fortunate enough to end up ahead of RRR on a score sheet I'll know I'm one of the very best shooters in SASS.

 

 

+1

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A match is a total of 12 or so stages, each one ranked independant of the other, as we all know. What is so hard to figure out about that, just shoot each stage individally and go from there, I doubt that if ya were number one on every stage that ya would get beat by total time. What ya think. It has always been rank points by the Wild Bunch, and probably always will be. If ya hate RP matches so much just don't go to em. Oh, then ya wouldn't have anything to bitch about.

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For the 6th or 7th year in a row you can still quote me on this one.

 

"Rank Points suck!"

 

Since state match directors can chose to use total time why not let the shooters who go to the National and World championship matches have a say in what they want. Freedom of choice... Right now rank points are manditory for these two matches. At least give the match director's discretion to make the matches total time at a minimum the same as a state match director.

 

 

On this rare occasion I'm NOT being a wise a$$.

 

The shooters DO have a choice, if you like rank points you go to the match. If you don't like rank points don't do to the match.

 

 

(Okay, maybe a little wise a$$ thrown in there. ;) )

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A match is a total of 12 or so stages, each one ranked independant of the other, as we all know. What is so hard to figure out about that, just shoot each stage individally and go from there, I doubt that if ya were number one on every stage that ya would get beat by total time. What ya think. It has always been rank points by the Wild Bunch, and probably always will be. If ya hate RP matches so much just don't go to em. Oh, then ya wouldn't have anything to bitch about.

Pretty good point. I'm lucky to be middle of the pack on a good day, however I do not miss often at all. I'm glad the clubs I shoot at use time. I did go to my first regional shoot last year. Total or rank would not matter much for me in my standing. However, I believe total time is the correct way to run a match. That being the case, you can probably figure I'll vote with my wallet by NOT attending rank score matches. Now that just leaves me the 'lost brass' issue to be unhappy about. :lol:

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With all due respect, Rank Scoring doesn't have anything to do with "inidvidual" stages. It doesn't reward consistency. It simply calculates the number of shooters each shooter beat through the "entire" match. I for one have been considering Rank Scoring totally illogical because the reasons given don't logically support Rank Scoring. But, I can accept the logic of a winner being chosen by caluclating the shooter who beat the most shooters. 2nd place would the next shooter who beat the next greatest amount of shooters, and so on.

 

That being said rank scoring should be abolished and Total Time should "rank" first in all matches. KCD

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