I want to turn to the "Dark Side"

[Marshal Max Henry]

I really want to shoot BP because thats what they shot back then and part of why I do this is to time travel, to be a Gunslinger from 1866-1890. And as far as i know they used BP. What i am concerened with is the curosiveness of BP. I dont want to ruin my New Ruger NV's or SS Rossi or Stoeger SxS. I see guys shoot it but i assumed they just had enough money to by new guns when theres desintigrate. Can I keep my guns like new shooting BP. Or can someone recomend a good BP that is not so damaging to metal?

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

If you go Black you won't go back.

 

KK

[The Original Bad Bob]

I like my powder like I like my women...

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Guns can be shot with BP and last a long time with thorough cleaning and oiling. I find the subs Triple 7 and APP very gentle on steel. However Triple 7 will tarnish brass or nickle finishes if not removed. I shoot anything cheap through a SxS since they are so easy to clean. I shoot Triple 7 in SS guns with no corrosion. Mine have been sitting uncleaned since a match this weekend and I'm not worried about them. However, my SxS shotgun that shot real BP was cleaned immediately upon return from the match.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

The unblued parts will show tarnishing, even with regular cleaning. But the rest of the gun will clean easily with hot water or any of the many concoctions we BP shooters dream up. I like the Murphy's Mix (weasel piss), which is equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, Hydrogen Peroxide, and denatured or isopropyl alcohol. Always oil well with a BP friendly oil (NOT regular gun oil) I like Balistol, but there are others that work as well.

 

Welcome and enjoy!

 

CR

[Chancy Shot, SASS #67163]

Mad Max – BP is not corrosive. It was the primers used back in the day that were corrosive. BP does seem to draw moisture, so your guns will want cleaning after shooting. I clean mine within a day or two.

 

For lots of BP info go here

 

BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTES FOR DUMMIES - http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html

 

The Darksider’s Den - http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=19.0

 

The Open Range - http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e8ef7e7657b8d2d491a3f974abfbf76a&board=18.0

 

Welcome to the dark side

Chancy

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Actually a couple of the subs, excluding Pyrodex, are supposed to be less corrosive on steel but they are hygroscopic(?) and attract moisture. For me this has proven to be more of a problem with reloading equipment than with guns, so consider this also. I think we are now down to just APP and 777 left as bp subs and the only one I have experience with is APP. It is claimed that these two subs will attack brass over a period of exposure time so pay extra attention to removing it from your cartridge brass when you get home, actually a lot of us keep a jar of liquid cleaning mixture on our cart to dump the brass in during the match.

 

You will get a bit of sticker shock when you first price the subs, compared to real bp, but I do not think they cost any more to shoot than Goex, real bp, when you factor in the time, money and mess that can be saved on bullets. No matter how you slice it there will be a price increase over what you paid to shoot smokeless loads, primarily due to the volume difference between the individual loads.

 

Cleaning will not be the big deal, as claimed by some, but it does need to be performed after every use rather then the two or three times a year some smokeless users seem to prefer. I use Windex green to clean up behind real bp and Ballistol for protection/lubrication. with the subs I use my regular smokeless routine of cleaning with Simple Green and oiling with Breakfree CLP. As many will attest to, bp crud melts away quickly and easily without all the wire brush scrubbing you sometimes run into with smokeless but there is one place that does require a bit of extra attention on the rifle and pistols, the rifles mag tube and the revolvers ejector rod tube. Some residue does always find its way there.

 

As you run into the little puzzles just ask because there are a few other items of difference between loading and shooting bp and smokeless but I think many of those differences will favor bp. Bp cartridge loading does have a few safety issues that are different than smokless issues so ask for guidance before beginning. there are also several good web resources available thet you need to read up on and I am sure others will link you to some. Also a couple of great books on the subject and most were fun reading for me. Think Venturino(sp?)and there is also an author who has done one or two great books on gunsmithing the cowboy guns (great for disassembly and reverse when cleaning). One last absolout fact, once you catch on with Frontier Cartridge you can increase your fun, at least ten fold, if you take the next step FRONTIERSMAN with the original style cap and ball guns and a big ole '60 Henry rifle!

[Rye Miles #13621]

It's actually easier to clean BP than it is smokeless. It's messier but with Murphy's, alcohol and peroxide ( 1 part each) spray down the barrels and guns and the BP comes right out. You can also use Windex, just make sure you put some kind of oil after yer done. I use Ballistol. I've been shooting BP for about 5 years now and no rust at all. Have fun with it. When I do shoot smokeless (very rarely) I'm disappointed and I wish I was shooting BP. Welcome to the Darkside pard. Rye

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

One more user of Murphy's Mix. As far as corrosion is concerned, Black Powder residue is nowhere near as corrosive as the uninitiated think. Yes, the bad stuff was partially due to corrosive primers. I almost never clean my guns the same day, I try to get to them within a week. I ain't gonna confess the longest amount of time my guns have sat uncleaned with BP fouling in them, but it was a Looooooooooonng time. If you go the Murphy's Mix route be sure to work some down inside the mechanism as you are cleaning. When I am done I go over everything lightly with Ballistol and work some Ballistol down inside too. The secret is, Black Powder that has been infused with oil cannot draw any water out of the air. It is already soaked with oil. Oil soaked Black Powder fouling will not rust anything. This means you do not have to take them apart and completely clean them out every time you clean them. Once a year is enough to get all the ugly, black, oily guck out of inside.

 

By the way, if I am shooting a two day match I usually don't even clean my guns after the first day. I just show up with them dirty and keep right on shooting. Of course, you have to be sure to shoot a bullet lubed with lots of BP compatible lube, but that is another story.

 

By the way, I usually do not take my ejectors apart on my Colts very often, I just wipe off the rod itself. The other day I finally took off my ejector rod housings, and took out the rods and the springs. Probably the first time in two or three years. Boy howdy, was there ever a lot of dark gray, mushy fouling in there. A quick dunk in Murphy's Mix and a little bit of scrubbing with a bronze bristle brush cleaned it all right up. Then an application of Ballistol. No rust. Like I said, be sure to get some Murphy's Mix and some Ballistol everywhere there may be left over BP fouling.

 

The above comments only apply to real Black Powder. I have no experience with any of the subs and do not make any recommendations regarding them.

 

P.S. I am starting a new campaign. You have to agree to call it Black Powder. None of that stupid 'Holy Black'. I hate that.

[Cowboy Junky]

Then may the smoke be with you......sucking noise...

[Iron Pony]

Max shoot real bp and dont worry about it. The number of people who think BP is a mess, a hassle, a pita whatever simply makes getting my supply of Schutzen easier. I would rather clean my bp guns after an 8-10 stage match then my smokeless shooters after an afternoon at the range.

 

Unless they have introduced new models you are going to be shooting a straight wall cartridge in the Rugers and I'd bet you bought a matching caliber rifle. This means you are going to get a little more blowback then with a bottleneck like the 44-40 which just means a little more work in cleanup.

 

The 1/3 murphys/hydrogen peroxide/rubbing alcohol mix will do everything you need for clean up, quick and easy. If you are really worried about rust etc then carry a spray bottle to the match with you. As you are putting the guns away hose em down with the weasel piss; down the bores of the side by side, all over the revolvers, in the action and down the bbl of the rifle. Pack em away and drive home, unload all your stuff, change clothes, have a coffee or glass of ice tea then pull em out and do your cleaning. Or you could wait till the next day and do it. Or you could leave them dry and wait a week. It was the primer not the powder then did the damage in the old days. We dont have those anymore so real BP is easy.

 

What you will need is good bullets and if you dont cast your own BUY biglube bullets, if you need info about them shoot me a PM.

 

Welcome to the darskide young padawan.

 

 

By the way the only thing more fun then shooting black powder gunfighter is shooting black powder gunfighter with cap and ball revolvers.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

 

P.S. I am starting a new campaign. You have to agree to call it Black Powder. None of that stupid 'Holy Black'. I hate that.

 

+1 Driftwood, I'll join your campaign! It's just a propellant,nothing more. Learning how it works involves experimentation, not mysticism!

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

One last absolout fact, once you catch on with Frontier Cartridge you can increase your fun, at least ten fold, if you take the next step FRONTIERSMAN with the original style cap and ball guns and a big ole '60 Henry rifle!

 

Just make sure that if you're shooting a Henry with BP in Boise, Idaho in August that you wear a glove of some kind on the hand that's holding the barrel up! OUCH!

 

 

P.S. I am starting a new campaign. You have to agree to call it Black Powder. None of that stupid 'Holy Black'. I hate that.

+1 Driftwood, I'll join your campaign! It's just a propellant,nothing more. Learning how it works involves experimentation, not mysticism!

 

+1 more!

[The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432]

+1 Driftwood, I'll join your campaign! It's just a propellant,nothing more. Learning how it works involves experimentation, not mysticism!

 

 

 

SINNERS! HEATHEN SINNERS!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

+1 with everything Driftwood says.

 

Adding on, I sometimes shoot 777 because you can use smokeless bullets with it, where BP requires specially lubed bullets. Cleans up the same as BP.

 

As for the cost of 777, there's more to think about than the price of the jug. As mentioned, smokeless bullets can be used and those are generally less expensive than Big Lube bullets. 777 is also less dense than BP, so you'll get a few more loads out of a pound of it than BP. In the long run, I've found the cost differential to be a wash.

 

Subjectively, the subs aren't as much fun (for me) as BP because there's no sparks and flame to go with all the smoke. And one last thing -- 777 smokes more than BP which can sometimes be a problem in seeing targets on those still and high-humidity days.

 

Welcome to the dark side!

[Dead_Head]

I have shot Triple 7 FFG for six seasons now. I just use regular bullets and put in whatever amount you wish from 1.0 cc up. Don't worry about filling to case capacity as it is not black powder, but a smokey smokeless powder. I used to shoot 1.0 cc, 1.1 cc or 1.2 cc loads all the time in my .45 Colt Rugers and Uberti rifle and now that I'm shooting .38 special, I do the same thing although I have gone up to 1.2cc loads for fun.

 

I shoot whatever I can find in shotgun. It doesn't matter.

 

I use Ballistol to clean and lube.

[Pigeonroost Slim , #36403]

 

I say "Holy Black" as a means to differentiate authentic black powder from the available substitute black powders. The techniques for loading and gun care may vary depending, but, like Driftwood, I am pretty much intentionally ignorant about the subs these days.

 

The only reason black powder could be more difficult to clean from the guns is that we darksiders actually do clean our arns sooner or later. I have not had troubles with doscoloration, rust, or excesss fouling from not cleaning and sometimes I go a couple of weeks of frequent shooting without cleaning at all, not even a barrel swab. When I do clean them, its not difficult and they quickly become superbly clean. The one exception to that is the Stoeger fence post, er, uh; shotgun ;-) Mine is a 16ga Uplander and Stoeger went all out in cutting the forcing cones really LONG. Not good for black powder, and that darn shotgun fouled down to about 28ga real quick and was the Dickens to clean. Don't know if 12ga coach guns are made that way or not, but if so, be prepared. I cured my Stoeger woes by laoding my own 16ga ammo with 14ga Circle Fly fiber wads thoroughly soaked in BP lube with a dry over powwder card and bit of news print wadding above the lubed fiber wad. Now it shoots much cooler and longer with minimal fouling (still a damned fence post of a shotgun though).

 

Any way, best advice I can give is to let other darksides in your area know you are a willing apprentice. If you find a good mentor, you are miles ahead.

 

prs

 

[Cuts Crooked, SASS #36914]

The links in the post up above would be a good place to start learning more about BP. If you stop in at the Darksiders Den be sure and check the child board there, it's a "library" of accumulated knowledge from many posters and sources.

[Jackson Rose, SASS #45478]

The hardest thing about shooting real black is getting it. I have one store within 40 miles that carries it. So I use 777 in pistol and rifle and pyrodex in shotgun. The 777 does not discolor brass. Both 777 and Pyrodex can be loaded on standard equipment. Cleaning is with 1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water with a spritz of G-96. There are many other methods that work just as well. Cleaning the shotgun is easier if you use a bore snake soaked with moosemilk(water and Ballistol mix). Rifle and handgun are spray and wipe. I almost never use a borebrush. My blued vaqueros look brand new after 2 seasons of shooting.

[Utah Bob #35998]

If I can do it, anybody can do it. None of my guns have been ruint despite having nothing but BP fired in them for 10 years or more.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

It's actually easier to clean BP than it is smokeless. It's messier but with Murphy's, alcohol and peroxide ( 1 part each) spray down the barrels and guns and the BP comes right out. You can also use Windex, just make sure you put some kind of oil after yer done. I use Ballistol. I've been shooting BP for about 5 years now and no rust at all. Have fun with it. When I do shoot smokeless (very rarely) I'm disappointed and I wish I was shooting BP. Welcome to the Darkside pard. Rye

Yep, BP is much easier to clean than that other passing fad powder. I too use the Murphy's mix and Ballistol, never had a speck of rust. For real BP Schuntzen burns cleaner than Goex for the same price, that and Big Lube bullets and you're on your way. Plenty of good info at the Darksiders Den, so easy a caveman could do it . Good Luck

Darksiders Den

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[German Jim]

I shoot nothing but real BP in my revolvers (.45 & .38 WCF) and my Uberti 1873 24" rifle (.38 WCF). I use nothing but Murphy's Mix and Ballistol for cleaning (thank you Driftwood Johnson). I took apart my .45s after shooting them for over a year. There was nothing in there to clean but a little dirt which probably didn't need to be removed. I took the side plates of my 1873 after about 2 years of shooting. Same thing. Just a little dirt. I have never taken apart my .38 WCF pistols, both Colts and Uberties. After finding nothing in my .45s or my rifle, I don't plan on taking them apart to clean.

 

I just clean everything with the Murphy's Mix and dip a toothbrush in the mix so I can clean all the nooks and cranies and oil with Ballistol. I wipe of the ejector rod on the pistols with a patch soaked with Murphy's Mix and then squirt some of the mix into the rod housing gap or some times I might drop some oil in.

 

Some times I take the magazine tube spring out of the rifle, but I never find any rust. I do have an aluminum follower. When I have it apart, I run an oily patch down the tube.

 

I DO clean my weapons after I shoot, so maybe that's why they stay clean inside. I just don't feel right leaving them uncleaned.

 

And that's the way it is.

[Cap Roundtree,#6056]

Hello the Fire,

Be careful what you wish for.

I only use the real deal.(The Holy Black and big lube bullets. They seem to keep the fouling under control.)

Good Luck.

Cap

 

B)

[J-BAR #18287]

I really want to shoot BP because thats what they shot back then and part of why I do this is to time travel, to be a Gunslinger from 1866-1890. And as far as i know they used BP. What i am concerened with is the curosiveness of BP. I dont want to ruin my New Ruger NV's or SS Rossi or Stoeger SxS. I see guys shoot it but i assumed they just had enough money to by new guns when theres desintigrate. Can I keep my guns like new shooting BP. Or can someone recomend a good BP that is not so damaging to metal?

 

 

 

I dare you to wear out your guns with any black powder or modern substitute. Lubing bullets will be more of a chore than cleaning your guns.

 

Do you really think the rest of us are fools to risk damaging our investments?

 

Come on, load 'em up and join the fun!!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

The hardest thing about shooting real black is getting it.

 

Why?? Fedex or UPS will deliver it right to your door. Several vendors offer free shipping and hazmat fees for 25-50lbs. If you shoot much at all you'll go through 25+lb a year. If you don't shoot enough BP in a year to justify 25lbs go in with a couple of other shooters on a group buy. So easy a caveman could do it.

Powder Inc. Free ship & hazmat 25-50lb

Maine Powder House Free ship & hazmat 25+lb

Graf & Sons Free ship, thier house brand is Schuntzen $13.99lb

 

Jefro

[Utah Bob #35998]

Why?? Fedex or UPS will deliver it right to your door. Several vendors offer free shipping and hazmat fees for 25-50lbs. If you shoot much at all you'll go through 25+lb a year. If you don't shoot enough BP in a year to justify 25lbs go in with a couple of other shooters on a group buy. So easy a caveman could do it.

Powder Inc. Free ship & hazmat 25-50lb

Maine Powder House Free ship & hazmat 25+lb

Graf & Sons Free ship, thier house brand is Schuntzen $13.99lb

 

Jefro

 

Yup. That's the only way to go. The days of getting a pound or two from your local shop are gone due to the storage regs hoops that retailers don't want to jump through.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Driftwood I agree with just about everything you say and I've learned some from ya too but I'm sorry I like to call it "Holy Black". Why does that term aggravate you so much? Just curious. Rye

[Fairshake]

Mad Max, The truth is that it was not called Black Powder. It was just called powder as that was the only propellant that was available to use during a very long 3 or 400 year time period. The western age that we all enjoy so much was in the end of that period. When smokeless powder first came about it was referred to as white powder and only then was the real powder called black. As far as the not able to buy black powder thing , I am about burnt out with that excuse. Capt. Baylor says that he would have to drive across Houston to buy the real BP and that is why he shoots the APP subs. Well as far as I know and what has already been pointed out,if you live in the USA then Fed-EX and UPS will deliver to you. There is no real excuse for not shooting BP. If you just don't want to then I have no problem with that as it might not be your cup of tea. I have seen cowboys who tried it once and said not for me. I respect that answer as it is telling the truth but don't say you can't buy it. Real BP is easy to clean and use and your gun will not turn to rust over night.There are many good books to read. One of them is a series written by Sam Fadala called The Black Powder Handbook. He does however use the load by volume term and that is not correct. Real BP is loaded by weight and not volume. The term of load by volume came about with the advent of the subs with Pyrodex being the first. All subs are more powerful than real BP and therefore it takes less of them to equal a certain charge. The biggest thing is to use a good bullet with plenty of lube meant for BP only and then use a cleaner for BP. I like using what is called "MOOSEMILK". It is a 7-1 mix of Ballistol and water. Two oz of Ballistol and 14 oz of water makes a pint. You may use any after cleaning protective that you choose including straight Ballistol to EEZOX which is my choice. They have a new powder by the name of Diamondback that is made in Brazil. It sells for just $10.16 a lb delivered to your door. Good luck and have fun. It will be a lot easier if you can find a mentor that is close by. Good Luck Fairshake

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

I wouldn't let the myth about cleanin' Black Powder guns scare ya off from usin' the real stuff! Heck, I've been doin' Black Powder, exclusively, in all my guns for 10 years; ain't one of 'em corroded in all that time! You develop a system for cleanin' 'em at the range or at home... it just takes time and practice (like everythin' else).