Rifle or carbine?

[Nickle]

I'm looking at buying a 73. Would like one in 45 colt.I would like to eventually get into cowboy action.  I'm in Canada so we need a government change to end handgun freeze. 

I currently have  rifle and carbine versions of 1894 winchesters and I can shoot more accurately with the  rifle version but  I see most of you shooting carbines. 

A local gun shop has a uberti competition 73. Short stroke,heavy 20 " barrel.  There is also  a miruko 24" rifle version. The competition model probably has light springs.  Components like pistol primers are hard to buy here. I'm not sure if competition model could shoot large rifle primers? 

I would love to get into the cowboy action shooting. It may never happen.  I might just get the 24" rifle. 

Probably as a newcomer to the sport either rifle would work. Thoughts?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Some people call shorter barrels carbines and longer barrels rifles, but there are short rifles as well.  Most people are shooting 18-20" octagon or half-octagon barrels.  19" and 20" carbines (round barrel, flatter buttstock) are next.  And the 24" would be the least used, but some do use them.  The 45 Colt uses a large pistol primer.  There are a few manufacturers now making 45 ammo with small primers but most of us avoid them.  And yes, as a newcomer to the sport either of those would work, though most shooters would opt for the Uberti.  IMO of course. 

 

Welcome and good luck with the Canadian gun laws situation.  If you are able to get into CAS it sure is a lot of fun.

[watab kid]

ive shot both the longer rifles and the shorter - not much difference in the abilities but the shorter are a bit easier in the stage movement , i like my 66 , its length is working for me , there is a balance there that feels just right , 

 

but i will add ive shot short and full length shotguns with the same thinking , in these i like a coach but i like about 20" barrel length for balance , 

[slow poke gear]

I started with a 24 inch barrel, I have found that the 20 inch barrel is MUCH easier to move on a stage with, especially if you are shooting through a window or door way.

The 24 inch barrel tends to get banged off of the frames. As far as weight goes i never noticed the difference between the 2. The miruko will be harder to get parts for when something breaks. Uberti parts are pretty easy to get ahold of. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Go with whatcha like...but the increased sight radius isn't needed for this game. 

 

Phantom

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I have both a 24" & a 20" Ubert '73. Both are great rifles, but the 20" is easier to move from target to target. Plus I do notice the extra weight up front from the longer barrel 24". As said above it's much easier to get parts for the Uberti than the Miruco if that situation arises.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I have both long and short barrels, and have come to prefer the longer ones.  I find I can acquire the target faster and they extra weight makes them more steady.

That being said, I am very much in the minority here.

[Nickle]

 

18 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I have both long and short barrels, and have come to prefer the longer ones.  I find I can acquire the target faster and they extra weight makes them more steady.

That being said, I am very much in the minority here.

I'm 6foot 4". Im not sure if body size has anything to do with barrel length preference?

At home here I do alot of offhand shooting at steel targets at 100yards. With my 26" 1894 I can definitely shoot better than with 20" carbine version  but I'm not trying to be fast and I'm shooting at more distance. 

Years ago when I was into handguns. I always shot way better with 7.5 ".

But seems  like most of you guys are shooting short barrel SAA so there must be a good reason 

 

[Old Man Graybeard]

I am one of the oddballs that prefers the 24 inch barrel over the 20 inch. I have several of both...and prefer the longer. It may be a bit harder to get around with...but I seem to shoot the longer barrels better. Some day I will find one with a 30 inch barrel and it will probably follow me home...if it's in the right caliber

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

As many have said the Uberti will be much easier to get parts for should any be needed.  Large rifle primers are not interchangeable with large pistol primers. They are taller and will not typically seat flush. (Don’t ask how I know this?)🤠🤔

 

Randy

[Go West]

Carbines are lighter. One thing to consider is caliber as .38/.357 is cheaper to shoot. 

[Choctaw Jack]

I shoot both 20 inch and 18.5 inch short rifles in .45 Colt.

The  octagonal barrels are somewhat heavier than the round barrels on most carbine.

Between the two i prefer the shorter barrel. The heavier octagonal barrel keeps me from swinging past the target and seems to be a little quicker on target.

18.5 inches is just enough  length for 10 in the magazine, but I run C45S in the shorter rifle so capacityisnt a problem.

And as usual, YMMV. 

Choctaw

[Nickle]

1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

As many have said the Uberti will be much easier to get parts for should any be needed.  Large rifle primers are not interchangeable with large pistol primers. They are taller and will not typically seat flush. (Don’t ask how I know this?)🤠🤔

 

Randy

I have a antique s&w nm3 in 44russian.  Large rifle sticks out but will work in a revolver . So in a lever action they will cause a problem? 

[slow poke gear]

3 minutes ago, Nickle said:

I have a antique s&w nm3 in 44russian.  Large rifle sticks out but will work in a revolver . So in a lever action they will cause a problem? 

Yes, you may not be able to get the action to close all the way. Depending on the rifle, you may also have failures to extract it the bolt doesn't go all the way forward.

[Nickle]

1 hour ago, Go West said:

Carbines are lighter. One thing to consider is caliber as .38/.357 is cheaper to shoot. 

I cast and reload so it's not really a factor. I already have molds , brass etc for 45 . With 44/40  I'm wondering if modern guns probably have .430 grooves but I'm wondering if chambers are more tight for traditional .427". I've heard new ruger 44/40 revolvers have this problem.  

When our government changes up here and they get rid of the handgun freeze  I was actually thinking about ruger old armies with cartridge conversions. Basically give me a 3 screw ruger and  I can also shoot cap and ball. That or Colt SAA like seems most of you shoot.

In Alberta here 357 and 44mag are pretty common lever guns.  I kind of find the more uncommon stuff more interesting.  Example 45cowboy special. 

 

[Nickle]

13 minutes ago, slow poke gear said:

Yes, you may not be able to get the action to close all the way. Depending on the rifle, you may also have failures to extract it the bolt doesn't go all the way forward.

So are the competition uberti 73s with lighter springs fussy about brand of large pistol  primers  because right now in Alberta the only ones I could  buy and I was glad to get them come from Bosnia. 

[G W Wade]

My story.  Rifles are 24 in.    Used one in the old days of SASS where we hard targets 30 to 50 yds.    Short rifle 20 or shorter    Great handling and esay to shoot.   Carbines are 19 in and shorter round barrel.   Good handling and shooting but to me too light when vigorously levering in attempting to go fast.     Just my opinion but it is mine.      Just find something you enjoy shooting         GW

[slow poke gear]

50 minutes ago, Nickle said:

So are the competition uberti 73s with lighter springs fussy about brand of large pistol  primers  because right now in Alberta the only ones I could  buy and I was glad to get them come from Bosnia. 

I don't know about that model but you can adjust spring tension on a 73 or it is very easy to change them out for a slightly heavier spring. Most start heavy and slowly take them down to the strength they need to set off what ever primer they use. I run federal primers, and have my guns tuned with enough force to set them off. 

Some primers need more force than others. 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

I have a antique s&w nm3 in 44russian.  Large rifle sticks out but will work in a revolver . So in a lever action they will cause a problem? 

I’m pretty sure you’ll have trouble in any modern single action revolver.🤠

 

Randy

[McCandless]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

I have a antique s&w nm3 in 44russian.  Large rifle sticks out but will work in a revolver . So in a lever action they will cause a problem? 

 

Yes, high primers in a rifle (or carbine) magazine tube is a catastrophic detonation waiting to happen.  I was timing a gentleman who had a chain detonation inside the magazine.  The forearm splintered and disappeared.  That magazine launched.  The gentleman had excellent safety glasses but the ER had to pick metal fragments out of his face.  He was left with a barreled receiver, and one of our members picked remnants of cartridges out of the receiver.

 

You will need to use Large Pistol Primers that fit into the Large Pistol Cartridge Case.   It's fine to leave the factory mainspring to help light off the Bosnian primers.  The Uberti rifles are used throughout Europe, Australia, and New Zealand where primer sources are not the same as here.

[Doc Moses]

11 hours ago, Nickle said:

I cast and reload so it's not really a factor. I already have molds , brass etc for 45 . With 44/40  I'm wondering if modern guns probably have .430 grooves but I'm wondering if chambers are more tight for traditional .427". I've heard new ruger 44/40 revolvers have this problem.  

When our government changes up here and they get rid of the handgun freeze  I was actually thinking about ruger old armies with cartridge conversions. Basically give me a 3 screw ruger and  I can also shoot cap and ball. That or Colt SAA like seems most of you shoot.

In Alberta here 357 and 44mag are pretty common lever guns.  I kind of find the more uncommon stuff more interesting.  Example 45cowboy special. 

 

Modern 44-40's have the same diameter and use the same bullets as 44mag/special/Russian. Since at least the late 90's.

My experience. Take it for what it is worth.

Edited December 15, 2024 by Doc Moses

[1st Sgt BearClaw Toklat]

How close are you to Alaska?  There are 2 clubs up here, one in Palmer and one in Fairbanks.  Come try out a few guns first and then decide from there.  The Palmer club shoots year round and the Fairbanks club shoots May-Sept.

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

A thing to consider besides barrel length, is the buttstock.

Rifle-crescent

Carbine-shotgun 1" longer than rifle

U.S. Marshal carbine-1" shorter, same length as rifle.

Then other special models come with a flat "competition" stock.

Forearm length can vary also.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

In today's market on my not readily find Federal LPP or SPP and may be forced to purchase Winchester CCI or some international brand we know little about. I would strongly suggest against tuning any pistol or rifle so much that it requires federal primers reputed to be the easiest to set off. My Vaqueros were tuned by a local Smith of national reputed having not asked his permission to cite him I will not name but trust me legendary comes to mind. He tunes guns to set off any primer. The cock nice and smooth and a lot easier than out of the box. Trigger pull is a good bit lighter but no where near a dangerous hair trigger 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

20" would be better for Cowboy Action. 

24" would be better for Hunting and longer range plinking .

If you don't know that your ever going to be able to get into Cowboy Action Shooting for sure .

Then I myself would go with the 24" .

It would be better for everything else and you still can use it for Cowboy Action Shooting Even Cowboy Long Range Lever Gun ! 

You would have a do it all lever gun in one gun !

Got to love that .

I have several 19" Carbine guns .

Several 20" Rifle guns .

And two 24" Rifle guns .

If I could one have One.

I would keep my 24" Rifle! 

Rooster 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

15 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Go with whatcha like...but the increased sight radius isn't needed for this game. 

 

Phantom

This^
 

Also, a ‘73 rifle has a crescent shaped butt stock, where the carbine has a shallower curve more like a shotgun. Most prefer the “shotgun” stock, but I prefer the crescent. 
 

Try before you buy. 

[Nickle]

21 hours ago, 1st Sgt BearClaw Toklat said:

How close are you to Alaska?  There are 2 clubs up here, one in Palmer and one in Fairbanks.  Come try out a few guns first and then decide from there.  The Palmer club shoots year round and the Fairbanks club shoots May-Sept.

Southern Alberta 

Thanks for your offer. 

I did go to a shoot in town and fired a light barreled 73 uberti. 

Was extremely fun

[Nickle]

21 hours ago, SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER said:

A thing to consider besides barrel length, is the buttstock.

Rifle-crescent

Carbine-shotgun 1" longer than rifle

U.S. Marshal carbine-1" shorter, same length as rifle.

Then other special models come with a flat "competition" stock.

Forearm length can vary also.

That's a really good point about length of pull.

My 1894 rifle I actually made a custom longer stock for it years ago. 

Now on my carbine 1894 with shotgun butt plate it's long enough that I can use it.

You know I'm thinking that uberti competition m73 is hands down way to go.

That has a flat rubber shotgun style butt plate along with everything else going for it.

 

[Nickle]

18 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

20" would be better for Cowboy Action. 

24" would be better for Hunting and longer range plinking .

If you don't know that your ever going to be able to get into Cowboy Action Shooting for sure .

Then I myself would go with the 24" .

It would be better for everything else and you still can use it for Cowboy Action Shooting Even Cowboy Long Range Lever Gun ! 

You would have a do it all lever gun in one gun !

Got to love that .

I have several 19" Carbine guns .

Several 20" Rifle guns .

And two 24" Rifle guns .

If I could one have One.

I would keep my 24" Rifle! 

Rooster 

24" with marbles tang sight would be fun for me.

I'm going to keep working towards getting geared up for the cowboy action shooting .

If I have to shoot pre 1898 antique legal in my area originals. 

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

56 minutes ago, Nickle said:

That's a really good point about length of pull.

My 1894 rifle I actually made a custom longer stock for it years ago. 

Now on my carbine 1894 with shotgun butt plate it's long enough that I can use it.

You know I'm thinking that uberti competition m73 is hands down way to go.

That has a flat rubber shotgun style butt plate along with everything else going for it.

 

Try the different styles before you buy, personally I hate the flat butt stock. And although the Uberti is called a competition  model, it's really not. Spend the difference in the price of a standard and competition on a quality gunsmith built gun. Marbles tang sights....I had a bench full at one time pulling them off of shooters guns, no good for cowboy action.

[Windy City Kid]

I have the Uberti 73  competition in 357. It shot great before it was slicked up, and now runs fantastic slicked. Have shot factory and my own cowboy loads and not one issue. 

[Griff]

Frankly, I want every competitor in my category to use a completely stock, 30" (if not longer), octagon barreled 1873!  I wouldn't mind if some others in other categories did also!  Only chambered in .38 Special... as, if you're gonna do that, it makes no sense to shave a few grams of weight by chambering it in .357!

[Ustas B. Slim 24680]

The best rifle to start with is the one you have.  I started with a Winchester 92 (Miruku) in .45 Colt with a 20in barrel.  Moved to an Uberti '73  .44WCF with a 30 inch barrel.  Went to an antique Winchester 73 saddle ring carbine in .44WCF.  While I am not longer any competition on the firing line, I found that barrel length did not impact my spilt times - long barrel, less movement due to recoil.  The caveat here is that I have always shot loads that replicated the historical loads so 250 over just as close to 40grs of BP and  200 over the same, respectively.

[Nickle]

8 hours ago, Ustas B. Slim 24680 said:

The best rifle to start with is the one you have.  I started with a Winchester 92 (Miruku) in .45 Colt with a 20in barrel.  Moved to an Uberti '73  .44WCF with a 30 inch barrel.  Went to an antique Winchester 73 saddle ring carbine in .44WCF.  While I am not longer any competition on the firing line, I found that barrel length did not impact my spilt times - long barrel, less movement due to recoil.  The caveat here is that I have always shot loads that replicated the historical loads so 250 over just as close to 40grs of BP and  200 over the same, respectively.

I've only gone to one match but the loads were so light with some it was hard to tell if they hit the target or not. They could have three judges with three different opinions on the hits or misses.

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

I've only gone to one match but the loads were so light with some it was hard to tell if they hit the target or not. They could have three judges with three different opinions on the hits or misses.

They're called "Spotters".

 

Missed calls...having three different "miss" callouts, will happen on heavy loads as well since often times the Spotters will be squinting in anticipation of the loud report...wondering how much more of it they can take before they need to go back to the audiologist to be fitted for new hearing aids.

 

Also, as I'm sure you're aware of, there is a minimum PF that should be enforced. If you think the rounds are not meeting the PF, call it. I'll also add that since we are shooting steel and not bad guys of the "old west", that heavy man killer loads only kills the hearing of the other competitors...bad guys don't really exist down range...

 

Cheers!

Phantom