CA to stop selling gas-powered cars by 2035

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I think California stopping the sale of gasoline engines in the state is a great idea.  I'll just sit over here on the east coast with all our nuclear power plants and watch the show.

[Subdeacon Joe]

15 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Tongue in cheek to be sure...However...

 

2035 is only thirteen years away. Much can happen in thirteen years, but...they better get started NOW. I really don't think that the electrical grid can be upgraded to a sufficient level to support even a 75/25% mix of EV/ICE vehicles by that time. By the time that planning is achieved/approved, bidding solicited/approved, financing secured, construction of new power generation facilities began, cost overruns re-examined and financed and construction finally completed...the thirteen years has come and went.

 

New power generation facilities are but part of the equation. All distribution facilities must be upgraded also. That's everything from the power lines leaving the power plant, to the lines going to every residence and everything in-between. Can it be done in thirteen years? I sure have my doubts about that.

 

More sarcasm than tongue in cheek. My response to the implication that the status is quo in perpetuity.

 

I agree that the transmission (from the power plant/source) and distribution (from substations to end users) needs to be upgraded.  PG&E , because of liability, is in the process of replacing overhead transmission lines with underground. "While we are continuing to develop additional details on our 10,000-mile undergrounding program, our goal is to significantly increase our underground miles annually. We've set a goal of completing approximately 1,200 miles of undergrounding per year, but it will take several years for that ramp-up to occur."

 

 

 

It's getting done.  And, heck, Newsom is starting to see reality and is advocating keeping a nuclear plant up and running past its projected shut down date.

[Doc Shapiro]

I'm not opposed to electric cars in principle.  My issue is that it takes so long to charge them.  Any sort of long drive isn't practical right now.  There is a good solution for that part.  Standardize all of the battery packs.  Put them all in the same spot in car.  Standardize all of the connections.  Pull into the station, a robot or other "thing" drops the battery pack, puts in a charged one, and you're in and out in a couple of minutes.  If these "stations" are as ubiquitous as gas stations are now, it solves this issue.  Granted, this doesn't address the power infrastructure, but it will take care of the biggest hurdle to adoption (at least for me).

[Cypress Sun]

29 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

More sarcasm than tongue in cheek. My response to the implication that the status is quo in perpetuity.

 

I agree that the transmission (from the power plant/source) and distribution (from substations to end users) needs to be upgraded.  PG&E , because of liability, is in the process of replacing overhead transmission lines with underground. "While we are continuing to develop additional details on our 10,000-mile undergrounding program, our goal is to significantly increase our underground miles annually. We've set a goal of completing approximately 1,200 miles of undergrounding per year, but it will take several years for that ramp-up to occur."

 

 

 

It's getting done.  And, heck, Newsom is starting to see reality and is advocating keeping a nuclear plant up and running past its projected shut down date.

 

The replacement of the overhead transmission lines creates an even larger problem. Underground lines are unable to carry anywhere near the load of overhead lines. In fact, the difference is that the underground lines have about 75% LESS capacity as overhead lines. Burying the lines only makes the problem 4 times worse. Keep in mind that the above numbers are not exact figures but a generalization.

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Any sort of long drive isn't practical right now.

 

It really wouldn't add but about a day to a cross country (as in CA to PA) trip.  Think it through.  It doesn't take five days (or whatever the memes are saying these days) to charge a car.  It takes 30 to 45 minutes.  I don't know about you, but I can't do the drive until I'm under an eighth of a tank, stop and get the fuel going, run and hit the head, buy a coffee, and back on the road.  A half hour or so break every two and a half to three hours is welcome.  

 

2 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Pull into the station, a robot or other "thing" drops the battery pack, puts in a charged one, and you're in and out in a couple of minutes.  If these "stations" are as ubiquitous as gas stations are now, it solves this issue.  Granted, this doesn't address the power infrastructure,

 

A couple of companies in China already have this.  It would be nice if all connectors were the same.  Tesla offered it to the other companies, but everyone else shied away from it because it was that evil Tesla and they would have needed to install the Tesla software.  CHAdeMO is being phased out in the US in favor of CCS, and Tesla, of course, has its own proprietary connection and software.  Tesla does make an adaptor so their cars can use CCS.
 

 

 

 

And a gloss on the pros and cons of swapping batteries: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-chinas-electric-drive-swappable-car-batteries-2022-03-24/

[Subdeacon Joe]

18 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

The replacement of the overhead transmission lines creates an even larger problem. Underground lines are unable to carry anywhere near the load of overhead lines. In fact, the difference is that the underground lines have about 75% LESS capacity as overhead lines. Burying the lines only makes the problem 4 times worse. Keep in mind that the above numbers are not exact figures but a generalization.

 

But cuts down on the disruptions from Planned Public Safety Shutdowns.   Also, given the demand in California they can't afford a 75% cut in capacity, so they must be doing something to counter it.  What, I don't know.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:08 PM, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Is that for real?

Seriously there are a lot of working class folks who are dependent on gas powered vehicles and while it seems like gas stations are everywhere I know for a fact some areas are definitely few and far between. 
As much as I think we should take care of our planet I am thinking someone who can barely afford a really cheap car is a little unlikely to pony up even 15-20 k for a used EV. To force them to buy an EV (at any price) is clearly a fascist move to control their financial future for years to come. As a recent retiree who has done a decent job preparing for the future I can tell you that an EV is not in my near term plans. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

Unfortunately, most of the people "caring for the planet" are pretty clueless about how the planet's various cycles and systems work.  They just parrot back whatever the ignorant (or worse) media feeds them, and the media is fed daily by left agenda-focused people who call themselves "scientists", but have no concept of the Scientific method or processes.   Their university training taught them only that ends justify means.  

Sad!

[Chantry]

15 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

All the more reason to support Space Based Solar-electric Power satellites! Large solar arrays collect energy from the sun, turn it into microwaves and beam them down to huge rectifying antennas on the ground.  Absurd? Of course.  Except DOD and DOE is exploring preliminary projects to at least power some military installations.  Of course, maybe "The Big One" will hit and the whole state will slide off up to the Nevada state line! 

 

Not absurd, I believe Robert Heinlein came up with basic concept back in the 1950's although IIRC it was nuclear power plants, not solar plants.  I'm fairly certain other science fiction authors have used similar ideas.

 

 

[Chantry]

We'll see what the future holds:

I expect lawsuits challenging the banning of gasoline engines and generators.

I don't expect that the majority of CA residents will be willing to either give up their cars or switch to EV, they just aren't paying much attention because the deadline is roughly 12 years in the future and most people don't think that far ahead.

CA residents aren't going to be happy with an electrical grid that can not support their lifestyles.  Right now it seems to be a minor aggravation at the state level.  When it becomes a major aggravation at the state level elections could become interesting.

[Cypress Sun]

 

It appears that the cancer has spread to two other states, Washington St. and Massachusetts.

[Sedalia Dave]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:53 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

All this Umbrage and discontent!!  My my.  15 plus commentaries and only 1, yes, just ONE, actually from California.  Interesting.

 

While I was not born there, I spent a total of 15 years living in the PRoK. 7 years on active Duty and 8 Years post military.

[Rye Miles #13621]

With all the traffic in the L.A. area I’m thinking there’s gonna be a lot of EV’s stalled on the freeway!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Oh heck Rye.  With all the traffic in the L.A. area, everything is stalled onna Freeway Three Times a Day.  Of course, when just sitting, an EV shuts OFF.  Doesn't idle.  Most commuters don't bother to shut off.  Just leave it running.

 

HiYa Sedalia!!

I grew up in Napa, CA.  When I was growing up, one could actually afford to live in California as long as you didn't want to live in San Francisco or LA.  Then Silicone Valley and the Yuppies happened.  I did get stationed near Sacramento for a couple of years.  Sac-a-tomatoes was a fun place.  To Visit.  Tahoe and Yosemite were fabulous.  Note the "was" and "were."  Wouldn't go back there to live onna bet.  Never mind the earth moves of it's on volition!!  Yech!! 

[Texas Joker]

12 hours ago, Chantry said:

 

Not absurd, I believe Robert Heinlein came up with basic concept back in the 1950's although IIRC it was nuclear power plants, not solar plants.  I'm fairly certain other science fiction authors have used similar ideas.

 

 

Until a coronal mass ejection knocks out 3 or 4 transmission satellites or they miss the catcher station and smoke a neighborhood

[Sedalia Dave]

58 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Oh heck Rye.  With all the traffic in the L.A. area, everything is stalled onna Freeway Three Times a Day.  Of course, when just sitting, an EV shuts OFF.  Doesn't idle.  Most commuters don't bother to shut off.  Just leave it running.

 

HiYa Sedalia!!

I grew up in Napa, CA.  When I was growing up, one could actually afford to live in California as long as you didn't want to live in San Francisco or LA.  Then Silicone Valley and the Yuppies happened.  I did get stationed near Sacramento for a couple of years.  Sac-a-tomatoes was a fun place.  To Visit.  Tahoe and Yosemite were fabulous.  Note the "was" and "were."  Wouldn't go back there to live onna bet.  Never mind the earth moves of it's on volition!!  Yech!! 

 

Was stationed at NAS Pt Mugu from 88 to 91. Then NAS Lemoore from 91 to 93. Then left for NAS Fallon. In 2000 was stationed at NAWS China Lake. Retired in 2002. Went to work for Raytheon then LMCO. Left the state in 2009 for East TX. Miss the high desert. Don't miss the rest.

 

In 2002 bought a 2200 sqft house in Ridgecrest for $125K. Sold it in 2009 for $260K. In 2005 I was recruited for a job in Golita with Raytheon. Cheapest I could find for sale in Santa Barbara county was just north of $600K and  less than 1000 sqft. Needless to say I didn't take the job

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:10 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

It really wouldn't add but about a day to a cross country (as in CA to PA) trip.  Think it through.  It doesn't take five days (or whatever the memes are saying these days) to charge a car.  It takes 30 to 45 minutes.  I don't know about you, but I can't do the drive until I'm under an eighth of a tank, stop and get the fuel going, run and hit the head, buy a coffee, and back on the road.  A half hour or so break every two and a half to three hours is welcome.  

 

 

A couple of companies in China already have this.  It would be nice if all connectors were the same.  Tesla offered it to the other companies, but everyone else shied away from it because it was that evil Tesla and they would have needed to install the Tesla software.  CHAdeMO is being phased out in the US in favor of CCS, and Tesla, of course, has its own proprietary connection and software.  Tesla does make an adaptor so their cars can use CCS.
 

 

 

 

And a gloss on the pros and cons of swapping batteries: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-chinas-electric-drive-swappable-car-batteries-2022-03-24/

You do know that these quick charges, as in any batteries will lower the life expectancy and also reduce by each quick charge its capacity.  That's a well know problem now and has been documented. Quick charges also heat up the battery in testing have caught on fire in labs. Be Leary of testing these quick charges. Also our insurance company is telling people with electric cars to charge them in the driveway away from the house. It may catch on. But here in Florida, I can imagine if a Hurricane evacuation is called, how many owners will be able to find charging stations, or with power lines down be able to charge. Might be a good idea to buy a trailer with a generator and pull it behind you, but then your using fossil fuel. Same goes for those in California, lines down, you'll just go back to fossil fuel, but then they aren't building new Gas Stations so you'll have to carry around solar panels or windmills, lots of them to charge your vehicles when gasoline is no longer allowed in California or so few Stations left.

[Whiskey Hicks]

I’m not -against- change per se, but every generation of tech comes with necessary infrastructure and supply. 
 

They finally got hybrids to a point of decent reliability, but for electric, the tech still sucks and the infrastructure is -not there-.

[Subdeacon Joe]

3 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

You do know that these quick charges, as in any batteries will lower the life expectancy and also reduce by each quick charge its capacity.  That's a well know problem now and has been documented. Quick charges also heat up the battery in testing have caught on fire in labs. Be Leary of testing these quick charges. Also our insurance company is telling people with electric cars to charge them in the driveway away from the house. It may catch on. But here in Florida, I can imagine if a Hurricane evacuation is called, how many owners will be able to find charging stations, or with power lines down be able to charge. Might be a good idea to buy a trailer with a generator and pull it behind you, but then your using fossil fuel. Same goes for those in California, lines down, you'll just go back to fossil fuel, but then they aren't building new Gas Stations so you'll have to carry around solar panels or windmills, lots of them to charge your vehicles when gasoline is no longer allowed in California or so few Stations left.

 

 

WOW!  Geee......I didn't know ANY of that !!!!!!   

All the same old anti-EV talking points.  OK, so I use a half gallon of gas to get enough charge to get to a charge station where I can "top off'" and get 150 miles or more worth of charge (and yes, I know that it takes 47,000 ton of coal burned in a 1939 technology power plant for every mile worth of charge).  The only reason the insurance companies are in a dither is because it's something new.  One out of three doesn't catch fire while charging, sitting, or being driven.  https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

https://www.howtogeek.com/809238/how-often-do-electric-cars-catch-fire/#:~:text=Overall%2C EVs were about 0.3,dangerous no matter the cause.

 

But, of course, NO gasoline or diesel powered vehicle has EVER burned, right?

All this garbage is like saying that it takes an Exxon Valdez oil spill to fuel an ICE car.  


I really don't understand the visceral,. knee-jerk HATE that the mention of EVs brings, and the urge to spew lies, half-truths, and fantasy about them.  OK, so they can't pull 20,000 pounds up a 14% grade at 75 mph in -40 F (or even -40 C) for 1000 miles between charges like your truck can between fill ups.  So what?  And just because YOU live 500 miles from the nearest power line so have no way to charge an EV doesn't mean everyone does.  

Are they the answer to all of the ills of society?  No, not even close.  Will EVs be able to fill in every niche in which ICE engines are used?  No.  So, according to some they are totally useless and there should be no research into them.  But guess what!  MOST commutes are under 60 miles round trip.  MOST people don't run combines or long haul trucks.  MOST people don't haul 35 foot travel trailers everywhere they go every day.  Do I sometimes miss having a pickup?  Yes.  But I don't miss the $75 to $100 every week just to get to and from work.  I like being able to come home and plug into the 120 overnight and top off when I need to.  Do I do it to "save the planet?"  Nope.  Nor have I ever claimed to buy into that Lysenkoist clap-trap.  I do it for one reason - it cost less for me to lease an EV than to get a bunch of repairs done on the pickup and what we save in gas now more than makes the monthly payment.  No, it doesn't cost $4500 (or whatever that stupid meme about how much it costs to charge says).  It adds about $40/month to our electric. If I use a fast charger it costs at most about $16.  

Oh, and as for using a fast charger, the car came with a benefit of a $250 account for EVgo, which I used for about 20 charges.  My battery in a year and a half has degraded about 1%.   So much for the "OHMYGAWD!!! You know that you lose 10% capacity every time you use a fast charger!" line of BS.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

Why do I get so worked up about this? Because I see people whom I consider to be reasonable, and with whom I think I share social and political values suddenly, like flipping a switch , turn into right wing versions of Whoopie Goldberg and Joy Behar.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

13 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Oh heck Rye.  With all the traffic in the L.A. area, everything is stalled onna Freeway Three Times a Day.  Of course, when just sitting, an EV shuts OFF.  Doesn't idle.  Most commuters don't bother to shut off.  Just leave it running.

 

Didn't know that, I know the hybrids shut off and so does some gas engines, my son has one that has a start stop engine.

 

https://climatebiz.com/how-long-can-an-electric-car-idle/

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

WOW!  Geee......I didn't know ANY of that !!!!!!   

All the same old anti-EV talking points.  OK, so I use a half gallon of gas to get enough charge to get to a charge station where I can "top off'" and get 150 miles or more worth of charge (and yes, I know that it takes 47,000 ton of coal burned in a 1939 technology power plant for every mile worth of charge).  The only reason the insurance companies are in a dither is because it's something new.  One out of three doesn't catch fire while charging, sitting, or being driven.  https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

https://www.howtogeek.com/809238/how-often-do-electric-cars-catch-fire/#:~:text=Overall%2C EVs were about 0.3,dangerous no matter the cause.

 

But, of course, NO gasoline or diesel powered vehicle has EVER burned, right?

All this garbage is like saying that it takes an Exxon Valdez oil spill to fuel an ICE car.  


I really don't understand the visceral,. knee-jerk HATE that the mention of EVs brings, and the urge to spew lies, half-truths, and fantasy about them.  OK, so they can't pull 20,000 pounds up a 14% grade at 75 mph in -40 F (or even -40 C) for 1000 miles between charges like your truck can between fill ups.  So what?  And just because YOU live 500 miles from the nearest power line so have no way to charge an EV doesn't mean everyone does.  

Are they the answer to all of the ills of society?  No, not even close.  Will EVs be able to fill in every niche in which ICE engines are used?  No.  So, according to some they are totally useless and there should be no research into them.  But guess what!  MOST commutes are under 60 miles round trip.  MOST people don't run combines or long haul trucks.  MOST people don't haul 35 foot travel trailers everywhere they go every day.  Do I sometimes miss having a pickup?  Yes.  But I don't miss the $75 to $100 every week just to get to and from work.  I like being able to come home and plug into the 120 overnight and top off when I need to.  Do I do it to "save the planet?"  Nope.  Nor have I ever claimed to buy into that Lysenkoist clap-trap.  I do it for one reason - it cost less for me to lease an EV than to get a bunch of repairs done on the pickup and what we save in gas now more than makes the monthly payment.  No, it doesn't cost $4500 (or whatever that stupid meme about how much it costs to charge says).  It adds about $40/month to our electric. If I use a fast charger it costs at most about $16.  

Oh, and as for using a fast charger, the car came with a benefit of a $250 account for EVgo, which I used for about 20 charges.  My battery in a year and a half has degraded about 1%.   So much for the "OHMYGAWD!!! You know that you lose 10% capacity every time you use a fast charger!" line of BS.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

Why do I get so worked up about this? Because I see people whom I consider to be reasonable, and with whom I think I share social and political values suddenly, like flipping a switch , turn into right wing versions of Whoopie Goldberg and Joy Behar.  

That's were your jumping to conclusions. Not a hater, but the infrastructure isn't ready yet. One has to be sensible in making a decision in a EV. We know were the raw material is coming from as well as the batteries. As to a 1% lost each time a fast charge is given, I read its higher. As to EVs, how many can afford the price tag and they also raised the prices.  

I would not want to depend on an EV for evacuation or need in a Hurricane area when all electrical wires, etc. are down. 

Then there the power plants that generate electricity, its okay if they use coal, as long as I have my EV I'm doing something. I'm happy you like your EV, just for myself, price to high, dependability in an emergency isn't there. Then, if its so good, why aren't those that want us to have one, don't. As to 1 out of 3 EVs(as you wrote) don't catch on fire. What if someone you knew, had the other 2 that do.

Again, I'm glad you enjoy yours, but am also annoyed by people trying to cram them down on me and my friends who aren't ready yet.  

If I have a weeks vacation, I would hate to spend an extra day each way just for charging purposes. Then I might be told take a plane, bus, or train. But then I would be traveling on items that use Fossil Fuel. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

HEY RYE

 

Most of the "Stop - Start" features shut the engine down for about the time of a "normal" stop light, then start back up.  My Mini works that way.  Although it also has a sensor for the vehicle in front starting to move away.  I personally hate the feature and am glad it can be disabled.

 

I don't necessarily think EVs are a bad thing.  I do think we are not necessarily ready for a "forced" change-over.  I will admit, the new Cadillac  Lyriq is some kind of WOW.  And "only" about 60 - 65 Grand.  And the Tesla Plaid is righteous itself.  Nope.  Still not ready.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

. As to a 1% lost each time a fast charge is given, I read its highe

 

In which case my battery would have degraded by at least 60% by now.  But for some reason it, after a year and a half, is only dow by about 1%.

 

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

am also annoyed by people trying to cram them down on me and my friends who aren't ready yet.  

 

And THAT is why you are 99 44/100 against them.

 

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

That's were your jumping to conclusions.

 

Um....you took it on yourself when you decided to lecture me as if I knew absolutely nothing about EVs.

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

to 1 out of 3 EVs(as you wrote) don't catch on fire. What if someone you knew, had the other 2 that do.

 

The EV haters produce meme after meme implying that one in three EVs spontaneously burst into flames.  I'm saying one out of three do not burst into flames as they claim.  Sorry about not laying the ground work out for you in my previous post.

[Rip Snorter]

Don't hate 'em, but don't want one and won't be coerced into buying one.  Kind of like consorting with the enemy.  I live in the country, in one of the largest states with considerable driving distances necessary to do most things.  Just the round trip to Billings without driving around for errands, 150 miles.  Kind of like rechargeable hearing aids - great when everything goes as planned and you can recharge on schedule, when things don't work  that spare pair with batteries, (and you can have lots of batteries) saves the day.

[Rye Miles #13621]

18 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

In which case my battery would have degraded by at least 60% by now.  But for some reason it, after a year and a half, is only dow by about 1%.

 

 

And THAT is why you are 99 44/100 against them.

 

 

Um....you took it on yourself when you decided to lecture me as if I knew absolutely nothing about EVs.

 

The EV haters produce meme after meme implying that one in three EVs spontaneously burst into flames.  I'm saying one out of three do not burst into flames as they claim.  Sorry about not laying the ground work out for you in my previous post.

Just curious Joe, what kind of EV do you have? I seem to remember you mentioning this before. 

[ORNERY OAF]

Maybe build a HUGE dealership right on the Arizona side of the California border....hmmmm

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Just curious Joe, what kind of EV do you have? I seem to remember you mentioning this before. 

 

It's a 2021 Nissan Leaf.  Has a 40kWh battery.  Range at 100% is about 175 miles, which I translate as about 150.  

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

It's a 2021 Nissan Leaf.  Has a 40kWh battery.  Range at 100% is about 175 miles, which I translate as about 150.  

 

 

I thought that’s  what you had, very affordable EV. I think it’s the most affordable of any of them. 
I’ve been checking out prices. I think I’d like to go with a hybrid though. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I thought that’s  what you had, very affordable EV. I think it’s the most affordable of any of them. 
I’ve been checking out prices. I think I’d like to go with a hybrid though. 

 

Look at a plugin hybrid.

 

The Leaf was affordable, which was why we went with it.   Very satisfied with it.  Not perfect, but more than meets our needs.

[Clay Mosby]

I don't "hate" EV's. But I do hate the politicians and tree huggers that scream that I'm killing the planet because I didn't immediately scrap my 2019 F-150 and go into debt to buy an EV.  I hate politicians that virtue signal and vote pander by deciding that the vehicles driven by approximately 97% of the drivers in CA will be banned from sale, that gas stations will be banned, while the state suffers through rolling "brown-outs" because our infrastructure cannot handle the current loads.

I personally have no use for an EV, as there isn't one out there that meets my needs, like my pickup does.

[Rye Miles #13621]

14 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Look at a plugin hybrid.

 

The Leaf was affordable, which was why we went with it.   Very satisfied with it.  Not perfect, but more than meets our needs.

I don’t see the advantage to a plug in hybrid. I checked them out a little on the internet. I would definitely buy a regular hybrid though. I have two friends that have them and they like them a lot.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Sedalia Dave]

The only thing dumber than allowing an unelected board of morons in your state to make unilateral decisions without the approval of elected officials is passing a law that makes your state play follow the lemming.

 

California gas car ban will apply to Virginia, too, due to 2021 law

 

Wait there's more.

 

Washington and Massachusetts have laws on the books that were written to trigger gas car sales bans if CARB passed one.

 

These states also like to play follow the lemming.

 

Quote

Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Nevada, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, Vermont and Washington D.C., currently follow CARB rules on car emissions, but they have not yet officially announced electric car mandates.

 

 

 

 

 

[Still hand Bill]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I don’t see the advantage to a plug in hybrid. I checked them out a little on the internet. I would definitely buy a regular hybrid though. I have two friends that have them and they like them a lot.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

Depending on the battery size and your driving, a phev can be a good choice.  We had a Volt that could do 45 miles on electric.  Theoretically if you drive less than 45 miles per day you can drive all electric, then use gas for trips or when you run out of electric.  We found that we could get about 600 miles on a tank (8gal) in the winter and 1200 ish in the summer as we drove 45-60 miles per day.  It was a good road trip car, but for me it really showed that I wanted a ev with a lot bigger battery.  Always wanted more battery as the ev driving is more pleasant.  
problem is most phev don’t have very big batteries and are more of a rule beater.  They have 10-15 mile range, so people just ignore the battery and get the perks of an ev, ie use of ohv lane, tax credits, etc.  

[Buckshot Bob]

23 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Didn't know that, I know the hybrids shut off and so does some gas engines, my son has one that has a start stop engine.

 

https://climatebiz.com/how-long-can-an-electric-car-idle/

They also draw power if you want heat or ac , which people are going to use most of the time 

[Rye Miles #13621]

27 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

They also draw power if you want heat or ac , which people are going to use most of the time 

But What About The AC?

However, if you’re stuck in traffic on a sweltering or freezing day, you’ll need to use your car’s climate control. Sure, that draws power from the battery, but it’s a minuscule amount. 

This is from the article.

[Buckshot Bob]

2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

But What About The AC?

However, if you’re stuck in traffic on a sweltering or freezing day, you’ll need to use your car’s climate control. Sure, that draws power from the battery, but it’s a minuscule amount. 

This is from the article.

I just can’t see electric heat with a blower motor being a minuscule amount when it’s below 0F .

The few people I have known in Mi that have electric heat in the home have astronomical bills in the winter