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In order of preference, disperse the remains of the delivery person, some armor has been upgraded with reactive armor that detects incoming projectiles and fires a disruption charge at the projectile. Some tanks have ablative armor that has a layer that is intended to blow up early to destabilize the incoming warhead.  That's about all I think I know...

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The Javelin is pretty much lights out. It drops down on the tank from above and hits where the armor is thinnest. The drone missiles operate  like that also.

The newest Ruski tank is the T14 Armata. What I’ve seen so far though are the older T72s and T90s . These are pretty much just upgraded Cold War types and are very vulnerable despite upgraded and reactive armor. It’s unknown how many of the expensive T14s they have but I’ve read that it may be less than 200. The T14 is supposed to have much better defenses. That’s not enough to defeat an army of any size and certainly not enough to take over a country the size of Ukraine. 
It appears that the Russians were prepared to fight a WW2 type battle with dozens of tanks blasting across the open steppes, sweeping all opposition out of the way. But the Ukrainian Nazi drug addicts and the terrain have put the kibosh on that grand plan. Their infantry, which is supposed to be supporting the armor is also not up to the task.

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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Some vehicles are also starting to sport active defensive measures. Think a smaller compact phalanx system (Metal Storm for example) on a vehicle.

 

The best option is don't get shot at in the first place. Use ground, artillery and supporting infantry to suppress, destroy or displace the enemies anti armoured assets. 

 

I am surprised that the masters of massed artillery and All Arms forces in WW2 have really played to their oppositions strength.

 

Metal Storm in action

 

  

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Some tanks also have smoke grenade dischargers that can be used to screen the tank from incoming missiles.   https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/launchers.html

 

How well that works with the newer fire and forgot missiles does not show in a quick internet search

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50 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Some tanks also have smoke grenade dischargers that can be used to screen the tank from incoming missiles.   https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/launchers.html

 

How well that works with the newer fire and forgot missiles does not show in a quick internet search

Depends on the system used. Doesn’t help with a radar lock round.

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15 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

What defences (if any) does a tank possess against one of these shoulder launched tank killer missiles that's locked on and rocketing towards impact? 

Come to a complete halt, open the hatches, jump out and run like hell! Won't help the vehicle, but hopefully would save your @$$!

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When Putin was getting ready to invade I thought "No way in Hell is he dumb enough to attack when it's still winter and the ground is all soggy". Well, apparently he was. The Nazis learned that you don't go sweeping across country like Ukraine with tracks and wheels until the ground is hard and dry enough to allow it.

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2 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

When Putin was getting ready to invade I thought "No way in Hell is he dumb enough to attack when it's still winter and the ground is all soggy". Well, apparently he was. The Nazis learned that you don't go sweeping across country like Ukraine with tracks and wheels until the ground is hard and dry enough to allow it.

Yeah.  Major Mud is a key member of General Winter's staff.

 

I don't know what he was thinking with the timing.  Too late for the ground to be frozen hard and too early for it to have dried out.

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35 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

He started five years ago

8 years ago, considering Crimea.
 

Or 15, if you go back to his Munich speech, where he announced these were his intentions. 

 

Or if you want to just look at the current conflict, the escalation of Russian-sponsored separatist activity in March ad a clear signal it was coming.

 

Of course, considering time required to put orders and plans in place, it’s likely the decision to invade Ukraine came on November 4, 2020. 

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26 minutes ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

8 years ago, considering Crimea.
 

Or 15, if you go back to his Munich speech, where he announced these were his intentions. 

 

Or if you want to just look at the current conflict, the escalation of Russian-sponsored separatist activity in March ad a clear signal it was coming.

 

Of course, considering time required to put orders and plans in place, it’s likely the decision to invade Ukraine came on November 4, 2020. 

Do you forget when The Donald told him we didn’t care about Eastern Europe?

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2 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

He started five years ago

 

1 hour ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

8 years ago, considering Crimea.
 

Or 15, if you go back to his Munich speech, where he announced these were his intentions. 

 

Or if you want to just look at the current conflict, the escalation of Russian-sponsored separatist activity in March ad a clear signal it was coming.

 

Of course, considering time required to put orders and plans in place, it’s likely the decision to invade Ukraine came on November 4, 2020. 

 

This is exactly why I have a problem with Zelenskyy comparing the Ukraine invasion to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. He was elected just under 3 years ago and has had as long to prepare Ukraine, Ukraine's people and Ukraine's armed forces for this invasion. Ukraine's armed forces and civilian volunteers have done remarkable against the Russians, without a doubt...but...Zelenskyy has become demanding in his requests for "free" assistance. I have become somewhat conflicted on how much the US should be assisting a Country that had the time and opportunity to purchase weapons/ect to fight this war. He certainly had the foreknowledge to know they were coming.

 

 

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Putin's attitude is one of sheer arrogance. He believed that by having a far larger military alone he was going to have Ukraine in the bag by the end of the first weekend. It reminds me of the fools in our own government who said that our combat mission in Vietnam would probably last no more than five weeks. Having the biggest collection of toy soldiers on your block won't do you a bit of good if you don't understand the situation you're getting yourself into.

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I think Putin thought Zelensky along with the rest of the Ukrainian government would take their money and run. Had that happened it is likely that the taking Ukraine wouldn't have lasted a week.

 

Instead, Zelensky turned out to actually be a leader and inspired the people of Ukraine to stand up to what was supposed to be a superior force that instead turned out to be a mostly cardboard tiger.

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On 3/17/2022 at 6:17 PM, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

There is a saying, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. It is clear that Putin is not a professional.


Don’t judge the book by it’s cover.  We’ll know better what Putin’s intent is after the war.

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This started out being a discussion of military tactics and materiel.

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2 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

This started out being a discussion of military tactics and materiel.

Are you sure?   Just because the title and first post were on target - but we digress :)

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11 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do you forget when The Donald told him we didn’t care about Eastern Europe?


To tell the truth, hadn’t even heard that line but so much of what Trump said has been spun by the media. But did pull up something related:

 

Trump choosing Eastern Europe

 

Whatcha got otherwise?

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10 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

 

This is exactly why I have a problem with Zelenskyy comparing the Ukraine invasion to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. He was elected just under 3 years ago and has had as long to prepare Ukraine, Ukraine's people and Ukraine's armed forces for this invasion. Ukraine's armed forces and civilian volunteers have done remarkable against the Russians, without a doubt...but...Zelenskyy has become demanding in his requests for "free" assistance. I have become somewhat conflicted on how much the US should be assisting a Country that had the time and opportunity to purchase weapons/ect to fight this war. He certainly had the foreknowledge to know they were coming.

 

 

My biggest concern with Zelenskyy’s asks is how much of it is geared to push the U.S. into the conflict. 

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57 minutes ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:


To tell the truth, hadn’t even heard that line but so much of what Trump said has been spun by the media. But did pull up something related:

 

Trump choosing Eastern Europe

 

Whatcha got otherwise?

Ok….

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/07/21/donald-trump-cast-doubt-on-the-baltics-involvement-in-nato-heres-what-they-actually-do/

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3 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

Are you sure?   Just because the title and first post were on target - but we digress :)

Digress? We went off the trail, down the garden path, chased a goose and hopped the 3:10 to Yuma! ;) 
 

But back to tanks. After going through an armored vehicle maintenance class in OCS in 67, and learning everything on a tank weighs at least 100 pounds more than me, l was glad to be in the infantry. :lol:

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24 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I once read that an offensive system costing X million dollars can usually be destroyed by a defensive system costing 1% as much.  Even if you have to use three or four of those defensive weapons to get a kill, you’re ahead.

One bullet brought down the Red Baron. 

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8 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Don't have a WaPo subscription, won't pay for one. But I did find a CNBC article that directly spoke to the WaPo story, so the slant is probably about the same. What I could see of the WaPo article said Trump's comment was he would not automatically defend the Baltic States. Not that they didn't matter. 

 

Also:

 

1. You do know the difference between 'Baltic States' (Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia), and 'Eastern Europe', right?

 

2. The most significant quote was, 'The GOP presidential candidate told the Times he would decide to go to the aid of small Baltic states only once he reviewed whether they had “fulfilled their obligations to us.” He added, “If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.”'

 

That's a long way from telling Putin, 'Eastern Europe doesn't matter to us'.

 

As I thought -- there's a bit of a gap between what was actually said, and what was spun.

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7 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Interesting article in today’s Wall Street Journal about Russian tanks built for combat with other tanks aren’t faring well on the modern battlefield against anti tank weapons like drones and Javelins. 
 

image.jpeg.bb6fbae2c20593141212d072e062ba1a.jpeg

I guess that's why armor and infantry work best when they work together.

 

But RPVs are a whole new page -- give infantry an organic airborne weapons delivery asset that's (relatively) cheap, small, portable, and responsive and it could be a whole new game.

Switchblade drones U.S. is giving to Ukraine

 

 Kamikaze drones

 

ETA: Found a video:

 

 

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