Fate of Founders Ranch?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

 

With End of the Trail soon moving to Arizona, what's the fate of Founder's Ranch?  Will it still hold local monthly shoots or will it be shut down as a shooting locale?  It's a great venue, it'd be sad to see it be gone.

What about the Cowboy  Chapel?

[Snakebite]

Don't know what will happen to it. It would be nice if those with money invested were able to get their money back. K. I'm just sorry that it took so long to correct a bad decision.  I'm just glad that there is no reason to ever go back to Moriarty, NM. I have great hope and expectation that the new venue will pump some life back into the game.  

 

Snakebite

[MBFields]

Maybe could move the Cowboy Chapel to ? The new national championship location? Get enough of us to volunteer to take it down and then put it back together wherever.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

10 minutes ago, MBFields said:

Maybe could move the Cowboy Chapel to ? The new national championship location? Get enough of us to volunteer to take it down and then put it back together wherever.

Ben Avery is State owned.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

My understanding is the WB owns the property? So SASS isn't obligated to pay the mortgage. Good thing.

Headquarters is located somewhere else.

So other than monthly shoots and trap, if they got the lawsuit resolved, would be it.  But that won't pay the mortgage!

Moving from California to a more central location, great idea. I personally think cheap land swayed their decision.

Its in the middle of no where, hotels, food, gas etc is a drive.

7,200' altitude wrecks havoc on old folk.

Hilly and muddy. Bad.

I remember the first EOT 'oh crap you mean it snows here, who knew'?

The chapel was funded through donations so the money won't be going back.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I was going to say that Larson. And all of the Winter Range. now EOT, stuff is put up and taken down. No permanent facilities. A lot of hard work done by many good people each year.

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

3 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Ben Avery is State owned.

Ok, So what are you saying Larsen & please do not take me wrong by asking this.

[Snakebite]

10 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

My understanding is the WB owns the property? So SASS isn't obligated to pay the mortgage. Good thing.

 

How do you know there is a mortgage and that the WB owns the property?  K

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Founders Ranch Foundation is a separate entity.

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Norfleet is right. The ranch is owned by the foundation, not SASS. The foundation was trying to become non-profit but I don't know what happened with that. THe other side of that is WB owned SASS, and created the foundation. They still own SASS, but have handed over the management/leadership reins.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I think what Larson is suggesting is that they won't allow a church to be built on State property. And the range doesn't allow any permanent structures associated with cowboy shooting. The bays are used year round for all types of shooting.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Personally, having invested in both Chapel and Founders Ranch Club, I think the Chapel is the saddest part of transition.  TMK, FRC had nothing to do with ranch funding other than the fact that at that time WB and SASS was of the same.  It was just another "donation project" with some amenities (RV parking, EOT entry, etc).  Many amenities never happened (water, power, etc). I enjoyed my part of FRC membership so no complaints.  The Chapel is a different story, it is such ashame that it goes "to the wind and time"   Much is true of the town itself,  vendors who invested surely had no time to really claim worthwhile.  And, think of all the dedicated, free labor in all the building.  Sad, and I hope for the best in the State owed Ben Avery and  OKC gun club which appears very stable.

[Ozark Shark]

1 hour ago, MBFields said:

Maybe could move the Cowboy Chapel to ? The new national championship location? Get enough of us to volunteer to take it down and then put it back together wherever.

 

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Ben Avery is State owned.

 

Yes, but the National Championship is going to the OKC Gun Club.  

[MBFields]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Ben Avery is State owned.

National Championship is not at Ben Avery anymore.

48 minutes ago, Ozark Shark said:

 

 

Yes, but the National Championship is going to the OKC Gun Club.  

Exactly.

[Matthew Duncan]

4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

With End of the Trail soon moving to Arizona, what's the fate of Founder's Ranch?  Will it still hold local monthly shoots or will it be shut down as a shooting locale?  It's a great venue, it'd be sad to see it be gone.

What about the Cowboy  Chapel?

SASS didn't own Founder's Ranch.  SASS leased its use from one of the WB.

[Matthew Duncan]

3 hours ago, Snakebite said:

... It would be nice if those with money invested were able to get their money back. K. ...

 

Snakebite

 

Like those that paid a premium for the best RV spots?

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Maybe the Chapel could go to OKC???

I know a lot of work but maybe a solution.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

4 hours ago, Ozark Shark said:

 

 

Yes, but the National Championship is going to the OKC Gun Club.  

Kind of hard to differentiate what various people are talking about.  The "new" National Championship location is in Oklahoma.  But, the Chapel was at the location of EOT which is moving to Phoenix.  If OKC can accomodate the Chapel that would be great.  As a practical matter the cost of tearing down the old chapel, moving the material to OKS and then reassembling it would probably cost more than just building a new one.

[San Quinton, SASS #4818]

According to New Mexico Property records, 469.42 acres is owned by Founders Ranch LLC

[Hoss]

4 hours ago, MBFields said:

Maybe could move the Cowboy Chapel to ? The new national championship location? Get enough of us to volunteer to take it down and then put it back together wherever.

 

2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Kind of hard to differential what various people are talking about.  The "new" National Championship location is in Oklahoma.  But, the Chapel was at the location of EOT which is moving to Phoenix.  If OKC can accomodate the Chapel that would be great.  As a practical matter the cost of tearing down the old chapel, moving the material to OKS and then reassembling it would probably cost more than just building a new one.

 

4 hours ago, MBFields said:

Maybe could move the Cowboy Chapel to ? The new national championship location? Get enough of us to volunteer to take it down and then put it back together wherever.

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Interesting.   

But  has anyone heard of what the plans are for FR itself?  Will it still be a shooting venue, or is it closing altogether?

[J. Frank Norfleet]

 

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Interesting.   

But  has anyone heard of what the plans are for FR itself?  Will it still be a shooting venue, or is it closing altogether?

 

It is still a shooting venue. Right now every weekend is filled by one of the five local SASS clubs. There is also a very active IPSC club the holds 3 matches a month spring to fall and numerous firearms instructors use the range. The shotgun range is still used. The chapel is rented for weddings and other groups can rent the facilities. At this point I have no idea of any plans other than keeping it open as a shooting range. I hope they do as there are few places for cowboy shooters to shoot.

 

The biggest problem for the moment are the heavy handed Covid restrictions in New Mexico.

JFN

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Although I'm sad about ending EOT at Founders Ranch, I'm satisfied that my Founders Ranch membership helped to keep SASS going. Since I'm old enough as an El Rey, that my active shooting is coming to an end anyway so the loss of my benefits won't seriously impact my life, my Founders Ranch badge reminds me that I stepped up to the plate when SASS needed it. I view my  other donations n the same light. The promises of my Hall of Flame, Museum, etc. memberships never materialized but I had my eyes open and, rather than feeling upset about being ripped off. I accept that my dollars helped SASS bring fun and friendship to my CAS shooters.  

 

I have also contributed to US Sailing, US Chess, my alma mater, NRA, the Marine Corps League, etc. and have realized the benefit of helping my favourites prosper.

[twelve mile REB]

2 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

Although I'm sad about ending EOT at Founders Ranch, I'm satisfied that my Founders Ranch membership helped to keep SASS going. Since I'm old enough as an El Rey, that my active shooting is coming to an end anyway so the loss of my benefits won't seriously impact my life, my Founders Ranch badge reminds me that I stepped up to the plate when SASS needed it. I view my  other donations n the same light. The promises of my Hall of Flame, Museum, etc. memberships never materialized but I had my eyes open and, rather than feeling upset about being ripped off. I accept that my dollars helped SASS bring fun and friendship to my CAS shooters.  

 

I have also contributed to US Sailing, US Chess, my alma mater, NRA, the Marine Corps League, etc. and have realized the benefit of helping my favourites prosper.

From one Marine to another  "SEMPER FI"

[Maddog McCoy SASS #5672]

14 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I remember the first EOT 'oh crap you mean it snows here, who knew'?

 The only EOT I went to was the first one at Founders ranch and I found the weather to be agreeable for shooting.

 

However, I lived just outside of Chicago at the time and we shot a match in January one time outside and were shooting next to burn barrel with a fire. We walked out of the building, stage the guns and condensate on guns would freeze and the guns would not work when the timer went off. We decided against doing that the next year. It was about 10 degrees with a 30 mph wind.

 

I hope to shoot EOT this coming year so I can say I shot the first and the last EOT held at Founders Ranch.

[Maddog McCoy SASS #5672]

14 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

So other than monthly shoots and trap, if they got the lawsuit resolved, would be it. 

 What Lawsuit?

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

18 hours ago, San Quinton, SASS #4818 said:

According to New Mexico Property records, 469.42 acres is owned by Founders Ranch LLC

Would not be uncommon for one LLC to own the property and another LLC operate the property.  Also not uncommon is a third LLC acting as Managment Company. All owned by the same person or persons.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

9 hours ago, Maddog McCoy SASS #5672 said:

 What Lawsuit?

Years ago a group of neighbors sued the ranch over noise from the shotgun range.  They lost their suit.  This is all history now.

 

A minor correction to some preceding posts:  the shotgun range does not have a trap field.  It has 5-stand and sporting clays.  There are good trap and skeet ranges elsewhere in the ABQ metro area. 

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

I went to a match called "The First Annual International Black Powder Championship" in October of 2004 , if my memory is correct. It snowed the night before the match was to start , range was a muddy mess. I think ( and am pretty sure of this) that it was the first match shot at Founders Ranch. This may be the one Irish Ike was thinking of. I only made it to one EOT , that was June 2006.

Rex 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

2 minutes ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

I went to a match called "The First Annual International Black Powder Championship" in October of 2004 , if my memory is correct. It snowed the night before the match was to start , range was a muddy mess. I think ( and am pretty sure of this) that it was the first match shot at Founders Ranch. This may be the one Irish Ike was thinking of. I only made it to one EOT , that was June 2006.

Rex 

If I remember correctly the match was called Smoke in the Valley.  That is when they discovered FR was not a year round shooting venue.

[Snakebite]

I gave up trying to camp there. After the first two years in a row trying to get into one of the Mud Pits I left both times and never tried to camp there again. I'm glad that I didn't pop for one of the sites with gravel, water and electricity. Bet you could buy one of them for a discount price right now.

 

Snakebite

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

2nd Smoke in the Valley.  They moved it to August for 2005.  Then it evolved into Outlaw Trail.  They came up with another match in the Spring, but I can't remember the name right now.  So, they had a Spring shoot, EOT, and Outlaw Trail.  I use to go out there three times a year for a long time.  Ah, the good old days.

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I remembered.  It was called the SASS Invitational.  I was disappointed that I was not invited and called the SASS office and found out everyone was invited.  The second year the promo started with All SASS Memberes Invited.

 

 

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

12 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

If I remember correctly the match was called Smoke in the Valley.  That is when they discovered FR was not a year round shooting venue.

Yep , Smoke in the Valley. I still have the coffee cup. 

One great thing (to me anyway) they had Don Edwards and Waddie Mitchell for entertainment. Visited with Don a good twenty minutes or so.

Rex 

[J. Frank Norfleet]

19 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

2nd Smoke in the Valley.  They moved it to August for 2005.  Then it evolved into Outlaw Trail.  They came up with another match in the Spring, but I can't remember the name right now.  So, they had a Spring shoot, EOT, and Outlaw Trail.  I use to go out there three times a year for a long time.  Ah, the good old days.

 

The spring match was the Buffalo Stampede. When I started in 2010, I felt incredibly fortunate to have 3 major matches 2 hours from my home. Now the last one will leave this year. Hopefully New Mexico's total Covid lockdown will be lifted by then and we will get to have EoT.

JFN