Ringer Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Tried to load some APP on my Dillon 550 today. Done it many times, no problem until today. Filled hopper, set charge and started. About 20 rounds in, charge bar started dragging. By 25 it was hanging, springs would no longer pull it back. Stopped at 30, emptied hopper, took everything apart and cleaned it. A little build up on charge bar. Started over, same thing happened. Apart again, looks like some kind of build up on bar again. Cleaned off and back together. Ran some graphite through. Slick as a ribbon. Tried again with APP. Same results. Never had this problem before with APP or anything else. What's up with the APP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 New bottle or one previously opened? Humidity any different than usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: New bottle or one previously opened? Humidity any different than usual? Previously opened but kept inside in controlled temperature. Dessicant packs still in bottle. Bottle was well sealed. Powder was not clumped and flows freely. I thought about the humidity but it is normal for around here. Humidity is all I could figure. Just wondering if anyone else had had the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdog Dago Dom Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Unless there was a significant change in temperature/humidity between the powder and the loader (powder in a warm car, loader in a cooler basement) I can't put my finger on a source. When my 550 gets to dragging the powder bar, I take it apart and rub all surfaces with 0000 steel wool, then wipe it down with a micro fiber cloth. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc roy l. pain Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 That’s why I started using app for shotgun only and hand dipped. I couldn’t get it to run through my 650. Had the same problem that you described. Never did figure it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just guessing, maybe that bottle has more fines in it than usual? Do you have a screen or something to try to separate out the fines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said: Unless there was a significant change in temperature/humidity between the powder and the loader (powder in a warm car, loader in a cooler basement) I can't put my finger on a source. When my 550 gets to dragging the powder bar, I take it apart and rub all surfaces with 0000 steel wool, then wipe it down with a micro fiber cloth. Good luck Everything is in the same climate controlled structure. Did that tear down and clean 3 times today. 2 minutes ago, doc roy l. pain said: That’s why I started using app for shotgun only and hand dipped. I couldn’t get it to run through my 650. Had the same problem that you described. Never did figure it out I hand dipped 100 rounds and got 100 loaded through the press. May be using the rest for shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Just guessing, maybe that bottle has more fines in it than usual? Do you have a screen or something to try to separate out the fines? I thought about clumps and ran it through a copper sieve I have. It has a larger screen. No clumps but don't know about the fines. All looked to be the same size. Maybe there is more dust or fines. Not gonna fight it. Will do like Doc said and load a few shotgun with what I have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 What is really puzzling is that I have had no problems until now. Loaded it for about 4 years just like any powder. Maybe a bad batch or as Abilene said more fines. Oh well, I only used it for rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Ringer, that's what happens when you substitute a substitute for the holy black....all kind of hoogityboogity stuff happens. Come back to the truth, Goex, and all will be forgiven and your load will be true and smoky! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 APP always gummed up my 550's, so I've used Lee dippers for several years for APP, Pinnacle, and Black MZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Shark Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I've had similar issues with APP and 777 in my 650. About 18 months ago, I replaced the powder drop slide with this slide from Arredondo and have not had an issue since.https://www.arredondoaccessories.com/product/powder-drop-slide/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Dumb question but what size charge bar are you using. I only use the large bar and so far so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 First, a CAVEAT: There is NOTHING "holy" about Black Powder. It's simply a propellant. 3F or 2F?? Way back the original formulation of APP was very prone to a very fine "dust" that clogged machines. The recent formulations, don't have that dust. Same question?? Large Charge Bar or Small Charge Bar?? I run the large bars on both my 650s. I do clean the charge bars and channel after a loading session. I have not had the problem you currently describe and I load A LOT of APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 When cleaning are you removing ALL of the powder that is adhering to the charge bar and inside the powder measure? It can stick quite well and be hard to remove. Best way to do this is hot soapy water and a stiff bristle nylon brush. I use a 100% non-metallic bottle brush for inside the powder measure. One clean ally to air dry completely. Use no lube anywhere that powder can touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 3f I am using the small bar. My large one is broken. I have always used the small one and never had this problem before. Yes to the cleaning. When reassembled everything was clean. Loaded some real Black and also some smokeless today. No problem. Bought my press in 1988 maybe it's wore out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Dot, 14911 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Are you using the fail safe rod? It should return the slide unless it’s really dragging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just now, two dot said: Are you using the fail safe rod? It should return the slide unless it’s really dragging. I am and it does pop it back but in my book that's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Dot, 14911 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Try a new bottle of powder maybe that will solve it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Watch the castle nut on the failsafe bar. They can unscrew. The cure is to add a second nut to keep it from unscrewing (don't ask how I know this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Ringer said: I am and it does pop it back but in my book that's not good. I was having that "pop it back" issue with smokeless a while ago. I called Dillon and they replaced my powder measure and gave me new slides. Problem solved. The new slides seem to have a coating on them and are staying clean. May not be your issue but worth a look. The problem I had with it popping back was powder would bounce out of the casing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: I was having that "pop it back" issue with smokeless a while ago. I called Dillon and they replaced my powder measure and gave me new slides. Problem solved. The new slides seem to have a coating on them and are staying clean. May not be your issue but worth a look. The problem I had with it popping back was powder would bounce out of the casing. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but right now it only does it with APP. I think the problem is probably lies with the APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 We used APP back about 10 years ago, but switched to Goex Pinnacle because of the fines in the APP. I always said it looked like a bottle of moon dust. The Pinnacle (which was actually made by APP as I was told) had a black coating on it that reduced the fines considerably. Over the years we went through at least 250lbs of the stuff. Had trouble with the powder slides in the MEC and the Lee Progressive getting gummed up after a long loading session, but a good cleaning was sufficient to get things moving again. If I had to guess (which I guess I am ) I would say that the finish on the slide has started to deteriorate and you have minute places where raw metal is being exposed to the powder. I my experience, that is were the powder adheres most rapidly and once it stick in one place, it will eventually build up to a big mess. The BP substitutes seem to be the worst offenders, but the smokeless stuff will do so as well, given time. Nothing for it but to either have the slide refinished, or get a new one, although I have wondered how well one would hold up if it was cerakoted. I have always been tempted to put on a thin layer of car wax, but I suspect it will just collect powder even faster and make a bigger mess, so I never tried it. Good Luck and let us know if you find a solution. Dogmeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Back in '12 I installed this Lee Pro powder measure on our 650s for loading APP & BMZ. Have worked well with very consistent loads for both 32 HR and 38 spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 That is the same powder measure we have on our Lee progressive. Seems to resist binding better than the slide in the MEC. I suspect that it is because it has a plastic block to meter the powder riding on a coated aluminum base. Well, it used to be coated, after running it for over 15 years, it doesn't have a lot of coating left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sam, SASS #34718L Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 I had a similar problem using APP and finally determined that there was an excessive amount of very fine "dust" in the APP. The fine dust was causing the charge Bar on my 550 to bind. So I went outside with a small electric fan and a large clean bowl from the kitchen. I poured the APP from the original container into the bowl in front of the fan on low setting. The Fan would blow the dust away and the heavier powder would fall into the Bowl. Then the Powder went into my 550 Hopper and metered perfectly after that........ I use the small bar on 38 Spl. & Colt and the large bar on 38WCF I wondered just how much of the APP was getting "Blown Away" So I weighed a 1 lb. can... before and after, surprisingly it still weighed 1 lb You may have the same issue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said: I had a similar problem using APP and finally determined that there was an excessive amount of very fine "dust" in the APP. The fine dust was causing the charge Bar on my 550 to bind. So I went outside with a small electric fan and a large clean bowl from the kitchen. I poured the APP from the original container into the bowl in front of the fan on low setting. The Fan would blow the dust away and the heavier powder would fall into the Bowl. Then the Powder went into my 550 Hopper and metered perfectly after that........ I use the small bar on 38 Spl. & Colt and the large bar on 38WCF I wondered just how much of the APP was getting "Blown Away" So I weighed a 1 lb. can... before and after, surprisingly it still weighed 1 lb You may have the same issue..... Not any more. That APP got loaded into shotgun shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sam, SASS #34718L Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 38 minutes ago, Ringer said: Not any more. That APP got loaded into shotgun shells. That'll work Too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I load tons of cartridges on my 650 and haven’t had any issues... @Palmetto Traveler loads APP on a 550 and I don’t think he’s ever described any of these issues. Like the idea of the fan! big hugs! Scarlett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 40 minutes ago, Scarlett said: I load tons of cartridges on my 650 and haven’t had any issues... @Palmetto Traveler loads APP on a 550 and I don’t think he’s ever described any of these issues. Like the idea of the fan! big hugs! Scarlett Me either til this time. It's all good, stuff happens,you adjust and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 On 11/4/2020 at 10:23 PM, Krazy Kajun said: Ringer, that's what happens when you substitute a substitute for the holy black....all kind of hoogityboogity stuff happens. Come back to the truth, Goex, and all will be forgiven and your load will be true and smoky! Kajun GOEX clumps much worse than APP going thru a powder funnel. And, 777 seems to work better than APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 On 11/5/2020 at 8:19 AM, Ringer said: 3f I am using the small bar. My large one is broken. I have always used the small one and never had this problem before. Yes to the cleaning. When reassembled everything was clean. Loaded some real Black and also some smokeless today. No problem. Bought my press in 1988 maybe it's wore out? Dillon will replace that broken larger powder bar for you. They may be in short supply right now though. If you need to borrow one PM your address and I will mail one out. You can ship it back once Dillon sends you a replacement. Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Ethan Cord said: Dillon will replace that broken larger powder bar for you. They may be in short supply right now though. If you need to borrow one PM your address and I will mail one out. You can ship it back once Dillon sends you a replacement. Ethan Now that’s an awesome cowboy right there! Hugs! Scarlett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Ethan Cord said: Dillon will replace that broken larger powder bar for you. They may be in short supply right now though. If you need to borrow one PM your address and I will mail one out. You can ship it back once Dillon sends you a replacement. Ethan Ethan, thanks for the offer. I've already sourced one locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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