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Johnny Swan, SASS #50322

Wtc pistol reload

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Here's another "hypothetical" as long as we're discussing "what ifs"..

(and I just tried this to verify the possibility)

 

"Colt-style" action (i.e. hammer must be on half-cock to drop the bolt and release the cylinder, instead of opening the gate as on a Ruger)

1) Hammer to half-cock.

2) Advance cylinder one "click" to place empty chamber (which WAS under the hammer) in the loading position.

3) THEN open loading gate and insert round into the empty chamber.

4) Bring hammer to full-cock & commence firing for 6 shots.

 

NO PENALTY before, during, or after the loading sequence.

 

(edit...skipped a step between 3 & 4 - Close the loading gate)  :P

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
correct sequence omission
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We all make assumptions, in tis OP we assume it is a SASS match rather than a IDPA although it isn't stated.  We also assume the revolver was a single action not a double action although it wasn't stated.  We assume that the match was being shot under SASS rules rather than local club rules although it isn't stated.  We the caveman/stumpers choose to assume in the absence of other evidence the loading table and the shooter conformed to SASS rules and regulations and therefore the revolvers were loaded properly although it isn't stated .  This puts us in the position of not wanting penalties.  The other group or individuals choose to assume in the absence of evidence that a rule was broken and therefore a penalty should be given.  That puts them in the position of wanting penalties.  I still like the innocent until proven guilty approach I know things are changing but as a stump I'm somewhat slower socially than you may be.   I prefer this kind of an approach "if you think its a miss its a hit" not everyone likes this approach but its the best we cavemen can do.    

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23 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

...We assume that the match was being shot under SASS rules rather than local club rules although it isn't stated.  We the caveman/stumpers choose to assume in the absence of other evidence the loading table and the shooter conformed to SASS rules and regulations and therefore the revolvers were loaded properly although it isn't stated .  This puts us in the position of not wanting penalties.  The other group or individuals choose to assume in the absence of evidence that a rule was broken and therefore a penalty should be given.  That puts them in the position of wanting penalties...

 

If you are speaking about this particular thread, then I call B.S.  The "other group or individuals" would appear to be just me and Hoss.  And neither of us assumed the loading rule was broken.  We were questioning whether or not it was broken.  

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We need to know if it's a ruger or a colt clone for this particular rabbit hole.  I bet OP just didn't notice the gun going to half cock because it was so smooth. 

 

At my home club, we always specify whether it's OK to load the extra round at any time (on the clock) or if it has to be done after the first 10 rounds are shot.  If you don't specify that it has to be done after, then anytime is fair. 

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13 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

If you are speaking about this particular thread, then I call B.S.  The "other group or individuals" would appear to be just me and Hoss.  And neither of us assumed the loading rule was broken.  We were questioning whether or not it was broken.  

Good lord...

 

Why are you taking up this discussion with a question that has nothing to do with the question issued in the OP??

 

PS: Ref Twelve Mile REB's post.

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How about this:

 

At loading table...

Half cock

Load 1.

Skip 2.

Load 4.

Cock.

Lower Hammer on empty chamber.

Cock.

Lower Hammer on empty chamber.

 

At Shooting position.

Half Cock

Load 1.

Cock

Shoot 6.

 

 

Note:  This only works if you are shooting a Nagant.

 

 

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OK. Step aside so I can beat this dead horse. First, I may be misunderstanding the original question, so here is my scenario: first sixgun has been emptied and holstered. Second sixgun has been drawn and aimed down range. Third, the shooter has one of those Rugers (I don't have one of those)   that frees the cylinder when the loading gate is opened and rotates the cylinder to the empty chamber. Forth, he/she closes the loading gate and finishes the sixgun part of the stage. Any thoughts? 

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Here's my thought---Hopefully I will meet you at the Buzzard Boil! :D

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

We need to know if it's a ruger or a colt clone for this particular rabbit hole.  I bet OP just didn't notice the gun going to half cock because it was so smooth. 

 

What about a Ruger with a 1/2 cock notch? :ph34r:

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OK, first I apologize, I just got home from work and opened up this conversation to find that I could have stopped this had I been more specific in my post. 

Yes, the shooter walked to the line with gun holstered on an empty chamber. He pulled his 2nd pistol, opened the loading gate on his Ruger Vaquero and indexed the cylinder so he could place a round in the empty chamber. He closed the gate and fired 6. 

i called it a no call, and based on what I have read, it appears that I was correct. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Swan, SASS #50322 said:

OK, first I apologize, I just got home from work and opened up this conversation to find that I could have stopped this had I been more specific in my post. 

Yes, the shooter walked to the line with gun holstered on an empty chamber. He pulled his 2nd pistol, opened the loading gate on his Ruger Vaquero and indexed the cylinder so he could place a round in the empty chamber. He closed the gate and fired 6. 

i called it a no call, and based on what I have read, it appears that I was correct. 

 

That's okay. We needed the entertainment.

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I was following this. Isn't it amazing how tiny details can make a huge difference?

 

On my guns, I can not load a round unless I go to the second click and free the cylinder. Does not matter if the hole "right there" is empty, the cylinder needs a tiny bit of rotation or the round will not go in.

 

With the update, I certainly agree, no call. There was never any possible call in my mind on loading the round to the extent I understand the rules. The big question brought up was if the shooter left the loading table with a round under the hammer. Tiny details like that really do matter.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Swan, SASS #50322 said:

OK, first I apologize, I just got home from work and opened up this conversation to find that I could have stopped this had I been more specific in my post. 

Yes, the shooter walked to the line with gun holstered on an empty chamber. He pulled his 2nd pistol, opened the loading gate on his Ruger Vaquero and indexed the cylinder so he could place a round in the empty chamber. He closed the gate and fired 6. 

i called it a no call, and based on what I have read, it appears that I was correct. 

 

That’s  the call! Never mind phantom and I. We would argue over what day of the week it is! 

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Today is Monday. That might cause an argument tomorrow, or right now for anyone on the other side of the Atlantic ocean.

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28 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Today is Monday. That might cause an argument tomorrow, or right now for anyone on the other side of the Atlantic ocean.

 

Except at night, on Tuesday.

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14 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

I was following this. Isn't it amazing how tiny details can make a huge difference?

 

On my guns, I can not load a round unless I go to the second click and free the cylinder. Does not matter if the hole "right there" is empty, the cylinder needs a tiny bit of rotation or the round will not go in.

 

With the update, I certainly agree, no call. There was never any possible call in my mind on loading the round to the extent I understand the rules. The big question brought up was if the shooter left the loading table with a round under the hammer. Tiny details like that really do matter.

The loading table officer should have ensured that the hammer was down on an empty chamber before allowing him to leave the loading table.

 

Duffield

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38 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

The loading table officer should have ensured that the hammer was down on an empty chamber before allowing him to leave the loading table.

 

Duffield

You are correct. But I can tell you that in the parts of the country I shoot at LTOs are scarce. I dong know if that’s regional to S Texas or not. One club I shoot at used to insist on an LTO, only one person loading at a time. They seem to have relaxed that policy tho. And I’m not saying an LTO is a bad thing, I’m just talking g how it is where I shoot. Some shooters will ask another to “check my pistols” but that’s about it. I do try to look at everybody’s rifle hammer while at the table to make sure they are down. 

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On 9/21/2020 at 1:33 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Actually, no.  I at least desperately want the OP to say, "Oh yeah, he turned the cylinder, I didn't think to mention that".  When I brought it up in the first place, I wasn't even thinking about moving.  I was thinking he might have left the loading table with a live round under the hammer.  Perhaps that point might need to be clarified before saying "Legal"

 

OP might have left the winning lottery ticket in his vehilce which makes the concern on how to pay the house mortgage moot.  How is "might" germane to the OP?

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May I please have a second bag of Popcorn Please.

 

By the by, It's a NO CALL regardless of the gun.  Colt, Ruger, no matter.  Still perfectly legal.

 

Can we also do some Peanuts and some CrackerJacks too ..... Please :wub:

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58 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

May I please have a second bag of Popcorn Please.

Can we also do some Peanuts and some CrackerJacks too ..... Please :wub:

 

Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department.   

I'll see if Charlie can get the jacks away from Sally.

In the meantime, the Sox are in last place, so it's hard for me to care.

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9 hours ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

The loading table officer should have ensured that the hammer was down on an empty chamber before allowing him to leave the loading table.

 

Duffield

Should. I agree.

 

But if didn't? That is not on range staff, that is on the shooter.

 

I don't even show my revolvers to the LTO until I have inspected each one myself.

Edited by John Kloehr
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Is it winter already?  Is the snow 3 feet deep and there is only 5 hours of daylight snd it is 20 degrees below zero?

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22 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

By the by, It's a NO CALL regardless of the gun.  Colt, Ruger, no matter.  Still perfectly legal.

 

AHA  So there's a chance it's a penalty if it's a remington or S&W? 

 

What if it's a cap gun?  You really shouldn't be allowed to put a metallic cartridge into a capgun unless it's been converted. 

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41 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

What if it's a cap gun?  You really shouldn't be allowed to put a metallic cartridge into a capgun unless it's been converted. 

 

Since you mentioned it....

 

When I first read the OP, back when this post first started, this is the thing that I laughed about...

 

SHB pg 14

Quote

If a particular stage requires a one shot reload, the sixth chamber of percussion revolvers may be charged at the bench and then capped “on the clock” either before the first round is fired or after the last round is fired.  A complete reload for percussion revolver shooters is handled by staging a loaded, uncapped revolver down range or switching uncapped cylinders and capping on the clock. 

 

So, the logical argument is wondering how someone would considered it safe to cap 6 in a cap gun on the clock before shooting any, but somehow find it unsafe to load number 6 in a suppository shooter. 

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2 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

So, the logical argument is wondering how someone would considered it safe to cap 6 in a cap gun on the clock before shooting any, but somehow find it unsafe to load number 6 in a suppository shooter. 

 

I think it's actually safer to cap the 6th before any shooting starts.  The cap will help prevent some chain fires.  So I don't think that line of reasoning applies to suppository guns. 

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

I think it's actually safer to cap the 6th before any shooting starts.  The cap will help prevent some chain fires.  So I don't think that line of reasoning applies to suppository guns. 

Why not?

 

They both have a fully loaded cylinder.

 

Why does it matter if it is a cap gun or not?

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3 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Why not?

 

They both have a fully loaded cylinder.

 

Why does it matter if it is a cap gun or not?

 

I'm saying there's a tangible safety reason to cap the 6th chamber before firing.  If there is some imagined safety risk in doing the reload first (not saying there is one, but we're pretending someone thinks there is), it is far outstripped by reducing the chance of a chain fire. 

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The question the OP asked has been answered definitely, further discussion isn't required to complete the OP's request for the WTC.  Nuff said.

 

Kajun

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6 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

The question the OP asked has been answered definitely, further discussion isn't required to complete the OP's request for the WTC.  Nuff said.

 

Kajun

 

Apparently NOT!
:P

 

We still haven't determined whether it is safe to fire a percussion revolver with an uncapped charged chamber.

(which has previously been discussed on the Wire numerous times) <_<

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