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Pat Riot

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13 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

image.png

 

Ask the rest of the world what their standard sizes are for socket set extensions...

 

They might give weasel answers like 6.35mm, 9.525mm, 12.7mm, 19.05mm...

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18 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

 

Ask the rest of the world what their standard sizes are for socket set extensions...

 

They might give weasel answers like 6.35mm, 9.525mm, 12.7mm, 19.05mm...

 

On a Black Powder Mortar and Cannon forum a guy from Sweden was going on about how the metric system, with everything based on multiples of 10 is superior to our system and all it's fractions.

 

I asked him to take something of any length and, using only compass and straightedge divide it into tenths.  Then take it and using the same tools divide it into halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, thirty-seconds, and so on.  

 

I also pointed out that the metric system is based on a mismeasurement of the distance from the equator to the North Pole on a line passing through Paris, and that it's also easier to guestimate sizes using your hands, feet, and arms than to carry a bar of iridium in your back pocket.

 

I don't see one being superior to the other, sometimes differences are just differences.

 

Except trying to figure out threads... it's much easier to work out thread pitch diameter for oddball metric threads than for oddball standard threads.  

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55 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

... the metric system is based on a mismeasurement of the distance from the equator to the North Pole on a line passing through Paris...

Irrelevant today, an inch is now EXACTLY 25.4 mm. No more, and no less.

 

As to threads, you are correct but converting tooling was the big barrier to converting in the USA. Since then, most tooling related work has gone off-shore.

 

And a barrel of oil is not 55 gallons, and US beef only requires a stamp even if on a ship from Brazil.

 

But yes, the French did measure that distance wrong and Iridium changes size as it undergoes radioactive decay so no joy there,.

 

The solution at this point is to set the metic system as an EXACT measurement to the English measurement system. And here we are...

 

Please pass me that 3" long 1/4" socket extension, I need to remove this 15mm bolt.

 

For reference, I just replace an idler pulley and two belts on an '03  Chevy Tahoe 5.3 liter engine today. The work did require a 3" long 1/4" socket extension to fit the the little square hole in the A/C belt tensioner, and my 15mm socket fits my 1/4" ratchet perfectly. 15mm is also the size of the bolt holding the splash pan on the bottom of the engine and the idler pulley on the maim belt tensioner. And the belts have metric callouts, which (I repeat) are exactly 25.4mm per inch.

 

As to gallons..., I can only offer this:

 

"There was a point from 1901 to 1964 when a liter was defined as the volume of one kilogram of pure water under the conditions of maximum density at atmospheric pressure. However, due to the mass-volume relationship of water being based on a number of factors that can be cumbersome to control (temperature, pressure, purity, isotopic uniformity), as well as the discovery that the prototype of the kilogram was slightly too large (making the liter equal to 1.000028 dm3 rather than 1 dm3), the definition of the liter was reverted to its previous, and current definition."

 

I can also observe a gallon of premium gas coming out of the pump arrives slower as the amount prepaid for said gas gets closer to the total paid. 

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34 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Irrelevant today, an inch is now EXACTLY 25.4 mm. No more, and no less.

 

 

Well, if you insist on making an arbitrary assigning of an inch to a measurement of a flawed system...

Heck, I knew it wasn't really relevant when I first trotted it out however long ago it was.  But it is relevant in one way ... it really irks the "Metric is SO superior" types. 

 

As I wrote, neither one is inherently superior to the other, just different.  Can be a PITA when a drawing is in metric, all the programming is done in standard, all your micrometers and calipers are in standard, and the customer wants the First Article in metric.  

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4 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

He's not smarter, just lazier. He actually started fishing from shore before the snow started melting:P.

Therefore give credit where it’s due. He obviously figured out the optimal fishing position before the snow melt (with its uncertainty as to snow base and water content in that watershed) without an actual water flow to see and plan with, and based on (no doubt) incredibly accurate measurements, observations and scientific acumen was in the proper position when the water actually rose. 
Dang where is that tongue in cheek emoji?

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:
Gateway Kid

okay, maybe lazy :P  :P  :P

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9 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Well, if you insist on making an arbitrary assigning of an inch to a measurement of a flawed system...

Heck, I knew it wasn't really relevant when I first trotted it out however long ago it was.  But it is relevant in one way ... it really irks the "Metric is SO superior" types. 

 

As I wrote, neither one is inherently superior to the other, just different.  Can be a PITA when a drawing is in metric, all the programming is done in standard, all your micrometers and calipers are in standard, and the customer wants the First Article in metric.  

 

JPL and Lockheed Martin proved to NASA that the whole English/Metric issue can be a $193 million PITA with the Mars Climate Orbiter.

How NASA Lost a Spacecraft From a Metric Math Mistake | SimScale

Edited by Ozark Huckleberry
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3 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

 

JPL and Lockheed Martin proved to NASA that the whole English/Metric issue can be a $193 million PITA with the Mars Climate Orbiter.

How NASA Lost a Spacecraft From a Metric Math Mistake | SimScale

 

 

And there was something, don't quite recall when, that was entered in one place in meters and another place in millimeters.  Nothing catastrophic, just caused the ship to flip, or not flip, on its back at a certain time for an experiment.  

 

Edited by Subdeacon Joe
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17 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

And there was something, don't quite recall when, that was entered in one place in meters and another place in millimeters.  Nothing catastrophic, just caused the ship to flip, or not flip, on its back at a certain time for an experiment.  

 

https://www.simscale.com/blog/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/

 

"The navigation team at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) used the metric system of millimeters and meters in its calculations, while Lockheed Martin Astronautics in Denver, Colorado, which designed and built the spacecraft, provided crucial acceleration data in the English system of inches, feet, and pounds. JPL engineers did not take into consideration that the units had been converted, i.e., the acceleration readings measured in English units of pound-seconds^2 for a metric measure of force called newton-seconds^2. In a sense, the spacecraft was lost in translation."

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C2E7A018-DCD9-43EE-B60F-51E287280E00.jpeg

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On 5/16/2023 at 12:25 AM, John Kloehr said:

 

Ask the rest of the world what their standard sizes are for socket set extensions...

 

They might give weasel answers like 6.35mm, 9.525mm, 12.7mm, 19.05mm...

 

I feel addressed as part of the rest of the world.  :D

And the extensions are actually given in inches. 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1" etc. Pipe diameter is also measured in inches.

 

I don't think either system is better. It's only better for those who grew up with it. We use the metric system. And when I see a screw in inches, it just looks "wrong" to me, I don't have a tool in my pocket that fits, the thread is different. In the US, mechanics with metric screws will feel the same way.

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14 minutes ago, Forest Gun Germany said:

 

I feel addressed as part of the rest of the world.  :D

And the extensions are actually given in inches. 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1" etc. Pipe diameter is also measured in inches.

 

I don't think either system is better. It's only better for those who grew up with it. We use the metric system. And when I see a screw in inches, it just looks "wrong" to me, I don't have a tool in my pocket that fits, the thread is different. In the US, mechanics with metric screws will feel the same way.

 

after all that you will probably still find this a handy thing to have around ......

SCA_582655_hi-res.jpg?sw=1000&sh=1000&sm=fit

;)

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4 hours ago, Forest Gun Germany said:

Pipe diameter is also measured in inches.

The funny thing is that we still call it a 1/2 inch pipe etc. despite it's not correct anymore. The inner diameter used to be an exact inch measure. Over the decades the wall thickness got thinner but the outer diameter was kept constant as that's where the threads are.

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