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Shifty Bob

1873 Uberti 357 powder choices

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There is no need to load .38 and .357. There was a similar post not too long ago. One point I made was that you are not always going to get back all of your brass. Some of it will go to other shooters. ( I reloaded 600 this week and found a .357 while inspecting the brass) Brass isn't expensive, especially when you consider that you will reuse it several times. ( only 3 split cases in the 600) And unless you have presses set for different calibers, you will be resetting dies. I load .38sp brass with 2.7gr. of Clays (or Clay Dot) with a 147 gr. TC bullet at 1.50." This works in my wife's '92 and my '73.

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

My first day shooting the Uberti was short as the 38 specials jammed in the rifle. The range gunsmith recommended using the 357 cases and 158 GR rnfp bullets. So I stocked up on them.

 

Use 38 cases and the longer "Snake Bite" bullet from Whyte that gives the 38 special 357 AOLs. Works flawlessly in the rifles. I also use Trail Boss in my 38's

38 "SnakeBite" Bullets

 

 

.

.

.

Edited by Savvy Jack

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My .38 Specials are short because I like to crimp in the crimp groove.  Mine mike out to 1.385".   My new Starline brass cases are 1.145" long, so I have about 0.24" of bullet exposed.  I did some reshaping on the carrier ramp in my '73 and '66 years ago when Pettifogger first published his article, and they both run these shorties just fine.  Those rifles are now my backups since I bought a Codymatic '73 from Cowboy Shooter's Supply 5 years ago.  The Codymatic ran these shorties without a hiccup from day one.

 

The point is, if you understand why the jams occur you can figure out what to do to give yourself more flexibility and loading options.  There is no problem using .357 brass,  it's just that .38 Specials are a bit cheaper and sometimes easier to find.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

My first day shooting the Uberti was short as the 38 specials jammed in the rifle. The range gunsmith recommended using the 357 cases and 158 GR rnfp bullets. So I stocked up on them.

What was the OAL on those rounds?

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

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Posted (edited)

APP W/Lead bullets.  105Gr Truncated Cone

 

Or 125Gr Truncated Cone.

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
add information

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2019 at 1:30 PM, Shifty Bob said:

Are people using coated or non coated bullets?

I use both but am switching to coated bullets for my main match loads just to keep my dies clean.  For long range loads I still use uncoated bullets.

Edited by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971

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4 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

Are people using coated or non coated bullets?

All we have ever used in SASS, is Bearcreek moly coated.

I never have to worry about bullet lube get'n packed in the loading dies. ;)

OLG

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4 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What was the OAL on those rounds?

They were too short.

 

1.480

 

I'm lern'n

 

Bob

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13 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

All we have ever used in SASS, is Bearcreek moly coated.

I never have to worry about bullet lube get'n packed in the loading dies. ;)

OLG

 

Thanks.

Didn't know about them.

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I'm not an expert, but for me it's the TC for the rifle

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Posted (edited)
Quote

My first day shooting the Uberti was short as the 38 specials jammed in the rifle. The range gunsmith recommended using the 357 cases and 158 GR rnfp bullets. So I stocked up on them.

...

They were too short.

1.480"

 

As has been said in about fifty or so threads on this topic over the last 15 years here on this forum, the factory Uberti 73 (or 66 or Henry) with it's stock lifter block will jam with "two rounds on the lifter" when using shorter than about 1.520" ammo.    A good gunsmith or even a slightly talented non-smith can re-slope the front ramp of the carrier in just a few minutes to properly feed down to (at least) about 1.450" length ammo, sometimes shorter yet

.

 

You can get the rifle properly tuned, and shoot cheap brass and light bullets.

Or you can leave the factory lifter alone and shoot more expensive .357 brass and heavy bullets.

 

All your choice.  Almost every one I know goes with the first choice.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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We're running .38 Specials with 125 grain RNFP from a Lee mold at 1.415 out of our stock 73 Winchesters. Smooth as butter. 3.0 grain Red Dot or 3.5 grains Trail Boss. We ran Deuce's 105 grain bullet for a while but ran out long ago.

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Yeah, use what you have. This is not Rocket Science.

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Hello, Shifty Bob!

 

     Welcome to SASS and welcome to Cowboy Action!

 

     If you have an 1873,  use a lead 125 grain Truncated Cone (TC) bullet.  It will feed really well.  I get mine from Bullets by Scarlett.

 

     Use .357 Starline brass cases in your rifle and use 4.2 grains of Trail Boss.  The same load of Trail Boss will work with 158 grain RNFP or 125 grain TC bullets.

 

     The same load of Trail Boss will work in .357 cases or 38 Special cases.  

 

     .357 cases work well in my Uberti 1873 I bought from Cody at the Cowboy Shop.  

 

     Use your 158 grain RNFP in your pistols and try some lighter truncated cone bullets for your rifle.  I hope this helps.

 

     All the best,

     Slow Mo Dern

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/12/2019 at 11:52 AM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

‘I shoot these bullets in 357 brass in a ‘73.  While I use Unique, I am sure Trail Boss would would fine.  Follow the manufacturer’s loading instructions and go shoot.  Your loads should work fine.  They will easily take down any rifle knockdown targets.  You can experiment with lighter bullets if you dislike your loads.

You have a good combination of components.  Load and shoot them.  Only IF they do not shoot in your gun, look for another combination.

 

James

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On 4/22/2019 at 10:48 AM, Michigan Slim said:

We're running .38 Specials with 125 grain RNFP from a Lee mold at 1.415 out of our stock 73 Winchesters. Smooth as butter. 3.0 grain Red Dot or 3.5 grains Trail Boss. We ran Deuce's 105 grain bullet for a while but ran out long ago.

 

"Run" as in "walk fast?"

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All great info from everyone.

 

Sent off my 73' to Cody for the treatment.

 

Can't wait till I use what I learned here with the slicked up rifle.

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On 4/22/2019 at 11:11 AM, Snakebite said:

Yeah, use what you have. This is not Rocket Science.

I'm in this school......you can play around with this stuff and groom loads 'til the cows come home and if that's fun for you that's good. But in reality you can take any decent pistol powder and follow the charts for a 700 -1200 FPS rifle load and it's not going to change much if you are sighted in for it. If the rifle shoots the ammo well that's what's important as the pistole will shoot anything. 

 

What it really comes down to is choices......do you want one load, two loads (rifle & pistol), not have to worry about knock down loads etc etc...…..but when the smoke clears (pun intended) the targets in SASS just aren't far enough to stress over load data IMO.

 

Don't get me wrong accuracy is better and lets you go faster but when powder was hard to find I used many different types and it never changed how I finished as long as it was loaded to my liking. Coke or Pepsi.

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39 minutes ago, Cowboy Junky said:

I'm in this school......you can play around with this stuff and groom loads 'til the cows come home and if that's fun for you that's good. But in reality you can take any decent pistol powder and follow the charts for a 700 -1200 FPS rifle load and it's not going to change much if you are sighted in for it. If the rifle shoots the ammo well that's what's important as the pistole will shoot anything. 

 

What it really comes down to is choices......do you want one load, two loads (rifle & pistol), not have to worry about knock down loads etc etc...…..but when the smoke clears (pun intended) the targets in SASS just aren't far enough to stress over load data IMO.

 

Don't get me wrong accuracy is better and lets you go faster but when powder was hard to find I used many different types and it never changed how I finished as long as it was loaded to my liking. Coke or Pepsi.

 

Very well said.

 

I am going to load up some of what I have, 124 TCFP Chey Cast and Trail Boss and go from there.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:21 PM, Shifty Bob said:

My first day shooting the Uberti was short as the 38 specials jammed in the rifle. The range gunsmith recommended using the 357 cases and 158 GR rnfp bullets. So I stocked up on them.

are you shooting a 73 or a 92,use 357s in the 92,73 will shoot about any thing

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Posted (edited)

Howdy Shifty, I'm a newby as well and have addressed the forum here on this very topic.

I have 3 of the Taylor/Uberti 73's and had loading issues with 2 of them. All of them are short stroked. Good call on sending yours out for action work.

2 of the rifles had a very sharp cut on the lower receiving area of the breech. The 3rd I ordered from Pioneer as a stage 3, so action work was already done. It's slick as snot.

On the other 2, despite trying multiple different OACL, I was still having occasional jams.

Turns out that my roll crimp wasn't quite tight enough and the case mouth was hangin up on that sharp edge. Slightly tightening the crimp solved the issue.

Since then, I've polished the breech a little and that combined with the tighter crimp really smoothed it out.

I totally agree with the groups direction on going to a lighter bullet. I went from a 158 to a 130 from Badman bullets. Noticeable recoil reduction and seemed to help with dropping back on target for follow up shots

BTW...I run 38 & 357 cases and both work fine, after finding the OACL sweet spot

Edited by Fast Freddy

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On 4/11/2019 at 9:57 PM, Shifty Bob said:

Hi,
New cowboy shooter here.

I have not reloaded 357 before. I have loaded for my Vaquero's 38 special, but I just purchased the lever gun.

I have several kinds of power on hand, but would like to just pick one and proceed to learn to shoot instead of load development.(sure I need to come up with a load powder weight)

I read several posts here on found quite a few recommendations. Just looking for a simple load, no high power needs.

I have seen Unique and Trail Boss mentioned.

Is there an overall powder that most people use? I have quite a bit of trail Boss, will that be a good choice?

 

Thanks partners.

 

You said that you already have Trail Boss.  No need to buy other powders.  Work with what you have.  It's real easy to work with, mild recoil, and the loads I worked up for Colt 5.5" group 2.5" at 25yds.  It has the added bonus of being fairly idiot proof, as you cannot double charge a .38.

 

A good all purpose bullet is a 125gr truncated cone flat point (TCFP), as toggle link rifles really like them and pistols will feed most anything.

 

If your particular rifle likes them a little longer, no problem.  Nothing says you have to crimp in the groove.  Set them a little long and use a tight roll crimp.   

 

You can take out your cylinder and use as a case gauge to make sure there are no bulges or problems after loading.  

 

At the same time check for high primers.

 

And there you go.

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One thing I have learned for sure:  the lever action rifles are sensitive to Overall Length (OAL). I need to shoot 1.45 or longer in order to avoid problems. I get that length with 125 grain bullets from Chey_cast. I also know you can get longer bullets from Badman Bullets at Pioneer Gun Works. I use Trail Boss (3.5 grains) but it does produce plenty of carbon. I am going to try Clays next to see the difference.

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I load 3.5grs. of BULLSEYE in 357 brass with a 130gr. RNFP lead bullet for my 357 CIMARRON Evil Roys.

I load 5grs. of AMERICAN SELECT in 38spl. brass  with the same 130gr. RNFP bullet for my '73 UBERTI. 20 inch barreled 357.

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On 5/3/2019 at 12:34 PM, Fast Freddy said:

Howdy Shifty, I'm a newby as well and have addressed the forum here on this very topic.

I have 3 of the Taylor/Uberti 73's and had loading issues with 2 of them. All of them are short stroked. Good call on sending yours out for action work.

2 of the rifles had a very sharp cut on the lower receiving area of the breech. The 3rd I ordered from Pioneer as a stage 3, so action work was already done. It's slick as snot.

On the other 2, despite trying multiple different OACL, I was still having occasional jams.

Turns out that my roll crimp wasn't quite tight enough and the case mouth was hangin up on that sharp edge. Slightly tightening the crimp solved the issue.

Since then, I've polished the breech a little and that combined with the tighter crimp really smoothed it out.

I totally agree with the groups direction on going to a lighter bullet. I went from a 158 to a 130 from Badman bullets. Noticeable recoil reduction and seemed to help with dropping back on target for follow up shots

BTW...I run 38 & 357 cases and both work fine, after finding the OACL sweet spot

 

Hey great info. I am getting on track now with all the great feedback. I have a few of the 158 GR left and have stocked up on the 125gr TCFP bullets until I see a need to shoot others.

 

Thanks

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On 5/2/2019 at 8:31 PM, Shifty Bob said:

All great info from everyone.

 

Sent off my 73' to Cody for the treatment.

 

Can't wait till I use what I learned here with the slicked up rifle.

I would not consider 1.48" OAL to short, at least in my 73s.  My minimum would be 1.45", but like Kirk, feel the closer to 1.5", the better. Bet you load will work fine when you get it back from Cody.

Many, including myself, have switched to coated bullets.  I use Cimarron bullets, 105, 125, 135, & 147s in 38 special cases (Clays/Fed 200M primers)).  All a tad under 1.5" OAL.  Lots of fine bullet makers out there, just chose CAS popular caster with the price that suits you and perhaps a distance that might eliminate shipping charges in price.

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When using that FAD, HEATHEN, smokeless stuff:

 

PLUS ONE to Barleycorn

 

PLUS ONE to J-BAR

 

You will discover Either 105Gr or 125Gr Truncated Cone bullets will run just fine in Toggle Link Rifles.  Just select your powder and load, crimp tightly into the provided crimp groove and GO.

 

Now, my own recipe is rather simple.  38 Cases.  Load 3f APP to the base of the bullet.  Load either a 105Gr or 125Gr bullet and crimp.  Simple and effective.  Helps to have radar glasses though.

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