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Tequila Chase

Uberti vs. Ruger

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I've only been Cowboy Action shooting for a few months but I've got a question.  I've seen a lot of shooters using Ruger single actions why?  I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm pretty sure there are advocates of each one that believe they have the perfect reason that they are correct.  I'm just asking is there some attraction that I'm just not seeing?  I've read numerous posts about folks having to "tune up" or "slick up" the Rugers, but I haven't seen too many about other brands.  

 

So again, I'm not looking to start WWIII just asking a question to the people that use them.

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Rugers are very tough. Hard to wear out or break. Personal preference on either, feel, handling etc. Shot rugers for 5 years and now shooting clones, just because I like variety.

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My perspective on the various SAA's is from a gunsmiths view. Not what they cost or how well they retain their value. Purely from the mechanical perspective.

 

If you want tuff out of the box, Ruger is the way to go, but I don`t consider it to be an SAA clone. The Ruger lock works were designed in the 1950-60's. It is nothing like the colt style lock basically unchanged since 1836.

 

Comparing Rugers to a colt SAA or Colt SAA clone is like comparing 60`s muscle cars to model T`s.

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

Do you want to play ,  reenact, compete or all three   Makes a difference . IMHO :FlagAm: 

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Rugers are ootb a more rugged gun because the lock works is much newer. It looks like a SAA but other than looks its a fully modern revolver.

 

Clones are clones, some have mild upgrades such as coil hand spring, wire bolt/trigger, or even coil main springs but the lock work still requires timing and isnt as forgiving.

 

At the end of the day, both work perfectly fine, both are tuneable to be smooth, and both can be short stroked and made to run reliably. I honestly think most of the ruger prefence comes from the fact that ruger turns out less lemons than the italians did. The clones didnt have the best track record and uberti keeps messing with new hammer safeties which are unpopular. Ruger CS is tops where as pietta/uberti is literally an ocean away and more or less has you on your own with Cimarron/EMF/Taylors to fix issues.

 

I started with rugers, great guns, literally nothing bad i can say about them. I shoot clones now, they just feel/balance better there really isnt a bad choice and neither is going to make you a top shooter on its own or hold you back.

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Rugers are tank-tuff.

Rugers are USA made.

Ruger's CS is tops.

OLG

 

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9 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Rugers are tank-tuff.

Rugers are USA made.

Ruger's CS is tops.

OLG

 

 

All true, and as soon as I find some Roogers that actually fit my hand good enough to shoot duelist I'll buy them; until then it's Colt clones or even better Open Tops.

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

All true, and as soon as I find some Roogers that actually fit my hand good enough to shoot duelist I'll buy them; until then it's Colt clones or even better Open Tops.

I've got medium hands... Small for being 6'2". I now shoot FCD (DD) using OMV''s.

 

It's not that bad...

 

Phantom

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May as well mix in Colt,  USFA, and now Standard Manufacturing in the mix - as well aa Pietta. 

 

First center fire handgun I shot was a Colt SAA 45Colt.   The first center fire gun I bought was a Uberti Cattleman.  I have them both yet today.  I owned a pair of Rugers for a while.  Never warmed up to them.  Mived them on down the road.

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Just now, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've got medium hands... Small for being 6'2". I now shoot FCD (DD) using OMV''s.

 

It's not that bad...

 

Phantom

 

I'm with tyrel, the 1860 army grip on the clones point naturally for me so I can more or less point shoot. The Ruger both omv and nmv both point goofy for me.

 

I love my rugers, I love the way they feel, they shoot, the reliability. I hate the way it doesn't naturally point

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59 minutes ago, El Cubano said:

 

I'm with tyrel, the 1860 army grip on the clones point naturally for me so I can more or less point shoot. The Ruger both omv and nmv both point goofy for me.

 

I love my rugers, I love the way they feel, they shoot, the reliability. I hate the way it doesn't naturally point

They point fine for... Guess it might have something to do with shooting them for over 15 years:huh:

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Just now, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've got medium hands... Small for being 6'2". I now shoot FCD (DD) using OMV''s.

 

It's not that bad...

 

Phantom

 

I've got small hands and stand 5'8", Roogers just don't fit and the lower SBH hammers don't help. I would like to try some Original Vaquero's with a short stroke, that might be better. I've taken to shooting Open Tops with Navy grips which is just about right for ME; the stroke is a bit shorter than a Colt Clone which I think helps most of all.

 

If I ever shoot squaw grip again I'll break out the NMV's.

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59993d38e5350_Pietta51navy44sAug2017.jpg.a71a1a428913545bd2e4f1fc3e68004f.jpg

 

Little Pietta 51 Navy Confederate 44s fell about perfect.  

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I use Rugers.   Its all about personal preference with me.

 

My Rugers are OMV in .45 and also .32 H&R, which are on the Single Six frame.

 

Mileage varies.

 

I might also add that I've handle other brands that I really like, just didn't have the $$ to keep pouring

into pistols when I was buying long guns and .22 pistols.

 

..........Widder

 

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50 minutes ago, El Cubano said:

Rugers are ootb a more rugged gun because the lock works is much newer. It looks like a SAA but other than looks its a fully modern revolver.

 

Clones are clones, some have mild upgrades such as coil hand spring, wire bolt/trigger, or even coil main springs but the lock work still requires timing and isnt as forgiving.

 

At the end of the day, both work perfectly fine, both are tuneable to be smooth, and both can be short stroked and made to run reliably. I honestly think most of the ruger prefence comes from the fact that ruger turns out less lemons than the italians did. The clones didnt have the best track record and uberti keeps messing with new hammer safeties which are unpopular. Ruger CS is tops where as pietta/uberti is literally an ocean away and more or less has you on your own with Cimarron/EMF/Taylors to fix issues.

 

I started with rugers, great guns, literally nothing bad i can say about them. I shoot clones now, they just feel/balance better there really isnt a bad choice and neither is going to make you a top shooter on its own or hold you back.

 

 

Much of the problems with the clones is the out dated leaf springs. Ruger are coil springs. Coil springs will always outlive leafs.  Both will race. it just takes a lot more to make a model T ready to race;)

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3 minutes ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

 

 

Much of the problems with the clones is the out dated leaf springs. Ruger are coil springs. Coil springs will always outlive leafs.  Both will race. it just takes a lot more to make a model T ready to race;)

 

Has anyone invented a coil spring kit for the Colt/clones yet? I've seen one on an AWA but that's it. Seems like a good idea to me.

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44 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

All true, and as soon as I find some Roogers that actually fit my hand good enough to shoot duelist I'll buy them; until then it's Colt clones or even better Open Tops.

Remind me to show you mine and get ready to bribe Widder.

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8 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Remind me to show you mine and get ready to bribe Widder.

 

Bribe Widder?

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41 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Has anyone invented a coil spring kit for the Colt/clones yet? I've seen one on an AWA but that's it. Seems like a good idea to me.

 

 

The most fragile leaf is the hand/pawl spring. most of the modern clones now have took a hint from Ruger and they drill the frames to accept a coil and plunger. That has help a lot. AWA had the coil main spring setup. But the leaf hammer springs didn't fail near as often as the hand springs. The other problematic leaf is the twin trigger/bolt springs. There are some wire replacements. but, i find that most of them will lose tension over time. They don't break. They just get really light. If someone could figure out how to do one of those with a coil in it, much like Ruger trigger spring i do believe they would be more consist. 

Bottom line is if you are going to that much trouble just buy a Ruger. ;)

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

Remind me to show you mine and get ready to bribe Widder.

Let me restate that, why would I need to bribe Widder? 

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Tequila, What do you shoot?

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From the factory the only inertia made pistol that coil mainspring was the Laramies marketed as Berettas. All other springs were leaf.  I think there is now coil handspring in some of the top breaks and might possibly be fitted to Laramies.

 

Historical ruger are not, tough as nails, yes they are.

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Tequila, as you can see from many of these posts the choice is purely subjective. While each cowboy has their own valid reason for their choice it is nonetheless their choice based on variables not limited to but including stature, grip, tradition, mechanics, logic and emotion. The only helpful answer we can give is the one we always give; you need to get to some shoots and handle as many guns as you can to determine what works best for you. The other strategy is to start buying guns and see which you prefer although that gets expensive. For the record Colts and clones fit my hands better than Roogers, and I prefer the sound that they make when cycling. Finally, because I am fundamentally playing cowboy, I find them more fun.

 

My .02 cents. You mileage will probably vary.

 

 

 

 

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I suggest you buy Rugers, I own stock in the company.LOL

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I've witnessed more problems with gimmicky safety features than with the basic guns. 

 

Sawmill Mary kind of liked the birdshead grip Rugers and intended to shoot them in a match. First stage one locked up.  That was it. She had brought her Cattleman as backup and never wanted to shoot the Rugers again.  One locked up on me a couple of times until I discovered that the base pin had jumped forward and let the transfer bar hang up under the firing pin. I installed heavier latch springs.  

 

I've also had base pin on my Uberti jump jump forward and lock up the cylinder.  I made base pins that won't jump! 

 

Sawmill Mary had a helper (Ruger person) push the base pin in on her Cattleman thinking it was slid out.  It was, but pushing it in put it on safe. 

 

Once the goofy safty stuff is defeated,  they are all more reliable. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Tequila, What do you shoot?

 

I shoot a pair of El Malo's, they are Pieta's.  I like them and even others have said that they have very smooth actions.   

 

5 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

I suggest you buy Rugers, I own stock in the company.LOL

 

Dude - I'd love to support you but....no

 

I don't have anything against any manufacturer and I don't want anyone to think that because I own one brand I'm trying to trash another.  My only purpose is to try to see if there was a clear cut answer, such as I paid $x.xx amount more for a Ruger/clone because...  The one answer that appears to be the most obvious is that it's a matter of personal preference as opposed to something tangible.

 

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Here is my take; Rugers are safer at the loading table. Rugers do not need to have the hammer back to load. Just open the loading gate, load one, skip one, load four and close the gate. No carefully dropping the hammer down while making sure it's on an empty cylinder. If you do mess it up, just open the loading gate and turn it to the right spot and close the gate. Period.

On non-Rugers the hammer has to be placed in the loading position and then carefully dropped on what is hopefully an empty cylinder. I have seen loaders accidentally drop the hammer when it slipped from under their sweaty thumb. I have also seen loaders not count correctly and lower the hammer down on a loaded cylinder. While I have only been playing CAS a year, I can foresee the two events happening together and then a gun is being fired at the loading table by accident.

I own Colt clones and Rugers. I shoot both. Rugers are safer.

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this is my take,,, I would have to spend at least $300 to get a ruger to be like a colt clone,, so I'll stick to my clones,, and shoot my omv in 44-40 for palerider

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5 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

The Ruger lock works were designed in the 1950-60's. It is nothing like the colt style lock basically unchanged since 1836.

 

 

Howdy

 

I am going to disagree only slightly with the learned Kate Kiowa Jones. When Ruger single action revolvers first came out in the 1950s they were very similar to Colts. The lockwork was almost the same. Not quite but almost. However Rugers have always featured coil springs instead of leaf springs. In the mid 1970s Ruger completely redsigned their entire line of single action revolvers. At this time, the transfer bar was added, completing making the internal parts of  Ruger very different than the internals of a Colt.

 

Picture is worth a thousand words department: I don't have any photos of an Uberti broken down, but for our purposes they are almost exactly the same as  a Colt.

 

This is what a Colt looks like, all torn down. The sharp eyed will notice I have substituted the leaf type bolt/trigger spring with an after market wire spring.

 

2ndGenColtExplodedView.jpg

 

 

 

 

This is the guts of a Colt. Just four parts. Clockwise they are hammer, hand, bolt and trigger. Yes that is the hand leaf spring and they can break. Usually they break right at the sharp curve where it is pressed into the hand. Notice how thin the upper tip of the trigger is. That is called the sear, and it fits into the various notches on the hammer to put the hammer at 'safety cock', half cock, and full cock. The main problem with this design is how thin the sear is. Put the hammer in the 'safety' position, with a live round under the hammer, and give the hammer a forceful enough blow, the sear will break off, or the hammer notch may break, and the gun may fire. Drop a loaded gun on the hammer with a live round under the hammer and this is almost guaranteed to happen. That is why a Colt or other revolver with a Colt style action is only carried loaded with five rounds and an empty chamber (not cylinder, automobile engines have cylinders, revolver cylinders have chambers) under the hammer.

 

interiorparts.jpg

 

 

 

 

This is a Ruger New Vaquero all torn down. Notice there are no leaf springs, they are all coil springs. Notice too that two of the coil springs require a plunger to direct the spring pressure exactly where it is needed, increasing the part count slightly.

 

Exploded%20View%20New%20Vaquero_zpsw19pt

 

 

 

 

A little closer view: The part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. When the hammer is cocked, the trigger rotates back, pushing the transfer bar up to position it between the hammer and the frame mounted firing pin. The gun cannot fire unless the transfer bar is in this position. When the trigger is released, the transfer bar retracts and a blow to the hammer will not fire the gun.

 

Exploded%20View%20New%20Vaquero%20Lockwo

 

 

 

 

The thing about coil springs vs leaf springs is that to achieve the same amount of total motion, each coil of a coil spring bends very little. So they almost never break. A leaf spring on the other hand is more prone to breaking because the flex is more extreme at the point it flexes.

 

Case in point: at the top, a broken Colt  trigger/bolt spring. Absolutely typical of the way they usually break, right at the end of one of the legs. At the bottom is a broken bolt. The legs of the bolt are spring steel and have to flex every time the hammer falls. This one flexed a few times too many. By the way, the broken bolt is fairly rare, knock on wood.

 

brokenspringandbolt.jpg

 

 

 

 

Let me be clear here. Leaf springs are not guaranteed to break the first time, or even the thousandth time they are flexed. But they are more prone to breakage than a coil spring. That is why Ruger went to coil springs way back in the 1950s. Yes, the Colt these parts came from was put out of action when these parts broke. No, they did not both break the same day, but I saved the broken parts for this photo. Yes, I completed the match with my back up Rugers, which still accompany me to every match. No, I have never seen the leaf hammer spring of a Colt or clone break. I suppose it could happen, I just have not encountered it. Yes, most of the clone makers are substituting a coil spring these days for that pesky leaf hand spring, so that helps with the longevity of the gun. I once spent the entire lunch period installing a new handspring for a pard to keep his Uberti rolling through the rest of the match.

 

 

"Built as a tough as a tank"

 

The reason for this is Ruger parts have a thicker cross section that Colt (or clone) parts. Thicker means stronger. It is that simple.

 

PS, regarding simpler to load, I find it very simple to load a Colt. Load one, skip one, load four more, cock the hammer and carefully lower it on an empty chamber. Practice it a few hundred times and it becomes second nature. Of course while lowering the hammer the gun should be pointed in a safe direction. To be consistent, my Rugers have half cock hammers in them, and I load them the same way.

 

 

One more thing:

 

Uberti has recently abandoned the old fixed firing pin in the hammer and gone over to a retractable firing pin in the hammer. When the trigger is pulled, a lever on the trigger pushes an actuator in the hammer up to push the firing pin forward so it can strike a primer. Otherwise, the firing pin will not reach a primer. This system is brand new, only been on the market about a year now. The old stocks of 'four click' Ubertis are almost all gone now and most dealers only have the new 'three click' version. (The Safety Cock, hammer position has been done away with. I know some shooters who are all riles up about this, but I keep saying you can't count the clicks when you are yanking the hammer back to fire.

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Driftwood,   great post.  Do you have an old 3 screw Ruger breakdown?

 

I was haunting gunshops from mid 1960s on.  Ruger Blackhawk were there beside Colt SAA and New Frontier.  Colt always cost 2 or more times that of a Ruger.  They looked cheap compaired to the Colt with their cast parts and flat finish.  

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4 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

All true, and as soon as I find some Roogers that actually fit my hand good enough to shoot duelist I'll buy them; until then it's Colt clones or even better Open Tops.

Put some gunfighter grips on the Rugers

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Just now, Catlow4697 said:

Put some gunfighter grips on the Rugers

 

I can't remember if I've tried that or not. Are they thinner than the black plastic factory ones from a few years ago?

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Rugers just don't feel as good in my hands as well as a Colt clone from Pietta or Uberti. Awesome guns, but for me it's like having a great pair of shoes that don't quite fit. Try before you buy.

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Howdy Warden

 

This 44 Mag Flattop Three Screw Blackhawk was made in 1958. The hammer spring was very similar to a modern one, with a coil spring around a strut. Yup, I have a pin in there to keep the spring from flying, just like with a modern Ruger.

 

FlatTop44MagParts.jpg

 

 

 

 

 You can see the spring plunger here that sat behind the trigger to push it forward.

 

FlatTop44MagXR3GripFrame.jpg

 

 

 

 

The hammer used the same type of spring plunger that Ruger uses today to trip the bolt.

 

FlatTop44MagHammer02.jpg

 

 

 

 

Three notches on the hammer, just like a Colt.

 

FlatTop44MagHammer01.jpg

 

 

 

 

Bolt is a simple stamped part, unlike the complicated springy bolt of a Colt. Part of the reason a Ruger was cheaper to make than a Colt. A stamped part is so much less expensive to make than the spring bolt of a Colt. The coil spring is what pops the bolt up. The other pioneering development by Ruger was his use of Investment Cast parts. If you look carefully you can see the grainy finish on the hand. Designed to pop out of the mold to finished dimensions, no expensive hand fitting needed. Ruger still uses Investment Cast parts today for the same reason.

 

FlatTop44MagBolt.jpg

 

 

 

 

Look ma, no transfer bar. The hammer strikes the frame mounted firing pin directly.

 

Frame%20Mounted%20Firing%20Pin_zpshci353

 

 

 

 

And of course, the screw heads on a Three Screw Ruger were on the opposite side of the frame than on a Colt. I dunno why Ruger did that, there is no engineering reason for it. Maybe just to be ornery.

 

FlatTop44MagPlumLoadingGate_zps039b323b.

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This really is a matter of personal taste.  A well set up Colt SAA or clone is very reliable as are the rugers.  I have broken parts in SAAs, clones, and Ruger single actions.  I have a pair of Colt bisleys that I have been shooting in competition since the late 80s with no parts replaced.  They do not have drop in parts and they need to be properly set up, but once they are, they are a joy.  Personally, I enjoy having Colts, or where I can’t afford or find a variat I want, I buy clones (a flattop for example).  The rugers are good guns, but they are not interesting to me.  Again, personal taste, buy and enjoy what you like.  

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