Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Shooting Bull

How can you shoot this?

Recommended Posts

59 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said:

Can I make it page 8?

 

If it even matters at this point, and I seriously doubt that it does, I see nothing in Shooting Bull's description that prevents a fourth round in a target negating a triple tap.  

The description is irrelevant. 

 

What is a quad tap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The description is irrelevant. 

 

What is a quad tap?

 

You started page 7 AND page 8 - WooHoo!

 

A quad tap is a triple tap, plus one more round for good measure!  :D

 

To be a bit more serious, I understand your parsing of words and words do matter, but I disagree that the stage description is irrelevant.  The benefit of the doubt should always go to the shooter and if the description does not specifically say that the final triple tap and the last round in the center target must be on separate targets, then my opinion is to side with the shooter.  I've no doubt that whoever wrote that stage will be more specific in the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

Lol, I bet he doesn't use this one again soon!

 

P.S. Might want to let him know the words "in any order" doesn't turn a quad tap into a triple tap.

 

*sigh*.

 

I have resisted. Unfortunately, my fingers seem to have a brain of their own.

 

IMO, You're reading way too much into this.

 

1 shot on a target = single tap.

Add the next shot to that target = double tap.  This does NOT negate the single tap.

Add the next shot to that target = triple tap.  This does NOT negate the double tap.  As a double tap is NECESSARY to get to a triple tap.

Add the next shot to that target = 4/quad tap.  This does not negate the single tap, double tap, or triple tap, as those are NECESSARY.

 

Hence, for the stage presented, 111, 333, 2222 is approprate.  Shooter has to triple tap before adding the last round to target 2. 

 

I really don't see the logic in your argument.

 

Respectfully,

Doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

*sigh*.

 

I have resisted. Unfortunately, my fingers seem to have a brain of their own.

 

IMO, You're reading way too much into this.

 

1 shot on a target = single tap.

Add the next shot to that target = double tap.  This does NOT negate the single tap.

Add the next shot to that target = triple tap.  This does NOT negate the double tap.  As a double tap is NECESSARY to get to a triple tap.

Add the next shot to that target = 4/quad tap.  This does not negate the single tap, double tap, or triple tap, as those are NECESSARY.

 

Hence, for the stage presented, 111, 333, 2222 is approprate.  Shooter has to triple tap before adding the last round to target 2. 

 

I really don't see the logic in your argument.

 

Respectfully,

Doc

They would have to. Otherwise you would have chaos. Case in point is: why wouldn't 4 shots be 2 double taps instead of a quad tap? If you go by interpretation or feelings there is no structure. That is really the bottom line. If you cannot go by direct definitions, there is chaos. It opens EVERYTHING up to interpretation. If 4 consecutive shots are wanted on the center target, it should read triple tap the outside targets and quad tap the inside target. Surely you can agree. To me it is unfathomable to not see the logic in that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

They would have to. Otherwise you would have chaos. Case in point is: why wouldn't 4 shots be 2 double taps instead of a quad tap? If you go by interpretation or feelings there is no structure. That is really the bottom line. If you cannot go by direct definitions, there is chaos. It opens EVERYTHING up to interpretation. If 4 consecutive shots are wanted on the center target, it should read triple tap the outside targets and quad tap the inside target. Surely you can agree. To me it is unfathomable to not see the logic in that.

 

Well, to me, you're thoughts on this are unfathomable.  I don't know why you can't see the logic.  And I don't know why you would think I'm basing this on feelings or interpretation, unless I totally misread that part of your statement.

 

My attempt was to provide a logical straightforward view. However, it's apparent you aren't able to see this side at all, and frankly, I'm really not interested in debating on the Wire. Maybe over a beer or three at some point in the future.

 

Hope you're having a great weekend.


Doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm kinda like Doc.. I've Stayed away from this thread :huh:

but I've read it as it's continued.. Page after page..:rolleyes:

I see the frustration..:unsure: but..

I reckon I'm in the camp that 111333222-2 is a quad tap..

Now I ain't in no way a premier shooter or a fast shooter but..

For my thinkin' it goes for a little time saving.. Maybe :huh:??

Just a different point of view..

I pick up my rifle.. I place 3 shots on target #1... triple tap completed..

I don't swing all the way past target #2 to get to target #3 for the triple tap..

but swing a short distance and place 3 shots on #2..triple tap completed..

swing to target #3.. Triple tap.. All triple taps done..

swing back to target #2 and place the 10th shot..

ie: 1112223332 or 3332221112

just sayin'..  why pass by a target without shootin' it :huh: to try and tempt a "P"..

 

Rance ;)

Yep.. Thinkin I should stayed off this thread:huh::unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

 Case in point is: why wouldn't 4 shots be 2 double taps instead of a quad tap? 

 

4 shots IS two double taps. I learned that in grade school math. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Well, to me, you're thoughts on this are unfathomable.  I don't know why you can't see the logic.  And I don't know why you would think I'm basing this on feelings or interpretation, unless I totally misread that part of your statement.

 

My attempt was to provide a logical straightforward view. However, it's apparent you aren't able to see this side at all, and frankly, I'm really not interested in debating on the Wire. Maybe over a beer or three at some point in the future.

 

Hope you're having a great weekend.


Doc

 

Howdy DOC.

Tn is having a terrible weekend..... :o

We both shot very bad yesterday but I still beat him..... :D

 

P.S. - you would enjoy sitting across the table with him having some refreshments.  He's a good honest feller.

 

He will be running a Posse at the TN State and we can be assured that all the stage instructions will be

complete, thorough, and fully explained.

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

 

just sayin'..  why pass by a target without shootin' it :huh: to try and tempt a "P"..

 

 

Why is irrelevant. The question is, is it allowed under those stage instructions? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Why is irrelevant. The question is, is it allowed under those stage instructions? ;)

 

Then "nope" that's a quad tap..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At Escondido Bandidos many moons ago this stage was on the menu and one of the lady shooters who always shoots quite well asked if ending the sweep on the center target and then hitting the center target with the tenth round was allowed and it was. I was perplexed but over the last few years at every match I’ve attended has allowed it to be 222-2 for the last four shots. Maybe it’s a regional thing maybe it’s not but I would suspect that clarification will probably be made during the PM walk thru from now on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

 Maybe it’s a regional thing maybe it’s not but I would suspect that clarification will probably be made during the PM walk thru from now on. 

 

And rob us of all this fun? I sure hope not. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

 

Then "nope" that's a quad tap..

 

nope its a triple tap (fulfilling that requirement of the stage instructions) followed by a separate instruction (place the tenth round on the center target) meaning no matter what happened with shots 1 through 9, the 10th round has a specific target its intended for, and a Separate command from the first nine shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

4 shots on two targets IS two double taps. I learned that in grade school math. :D

Lol, I didn't say on 2 targets!default_laugh.png.a1197aa637379213d5fa4ccda4d4c0fe.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Gawd Awful said:

 

nope its a triple tap (fulfilling that requirement of the stage instructions) followed by a separate instruction (place the tenth round on the center target) meaning no matter what happened with shots 1 through 9, the 10th round has a specific target its intended for, and a Separate command from the first nine shots.

Nah, they aint no invisible line of demarcation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2018 at 8:37 PM, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I predict this will go to page 8 and no ones mind will be changed. I just hope if I shoot this stage, I remember to ask how it can be done when the scenario is read!:D

 

Randy

I should hang out a shingle as a physic!  :P

 

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Lol, I didn't say on 2 targets!default_laugh.png.a1197aa637379213d5fa4ccda4d4c0fe.png

 

I know. I was laughing so hard when I posted I lost my mind. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Well, to me, you're thoughts on this are unfathomable.  I don't know why you can't see the logic.  And I don't know why you would think I'm basing this on feelings or interpretation, unless I totally misread that part of your statement.

Yep, totally misread my statement. Go back and consider. I said if you(meaning anybody) don't go by the given definition of something, then you(meaning anybody) have to go by an interpretation or feelings that may or may not be the same as someone else's interpretation or feelings(hence the debate).

Quote

 

My attempt was to provide a logical straightforward view. However, it's apparent you aren't able to see this side at all, and frankly, I'm really not interested in debating on the Wire.

Maybe over a beer or three at some point in the future.

As was my futile attempt. 

I do indeed see the point you and others have made. I take a bit of pride in puting my feet in another mans boots;however, my point remains to me undisputed thus far. If you go by somethings definition, you don't open up the possibility of differences in interpretation.

Quote

 

Hope you're having a great weekend.


Doc

Well I aint cause widder whooped me saturday. He got by me by the skin of his teeth. Warnt no more than a couple minutes he got me by. I blame his shotgun. 

I'd love to sit with ya and have a dr pepper or two. We'd probably have a big time making fun of Bulls' poor ole ford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Nah, they aint no invisible line of demarcation.

 

Theres most definitely a line and it’s not invisible. The instructions either said “then place the 10th shot on the center target” or they said “ ........in any order. Place 10th shot on center target.” I honestly can’t remember which but it was one of those two. Either way the two separate instructions were separated by the word “then” or a period. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Theres most definitely a line and it’s not invisible. The instructions either said “then place the 10th shot on the center target” or they said “ ........in any order. Place 10th shot on center target.” I honestly can’t remember which but it was one of those two. Either way the two separate instructions were separated by the word “then” or a period. 

I'm saying it doesn't matter. My point is that taking the instructions as a whole, you know not to put your last triple tap on the 2nd target because when you put your tenth on there its a quad tap if you do. Thats been my point all along. Then or period or a set of jumping jacks in between the triple tap and single tap is a line that people are imagining is there when it aint. Dont matter if you shoot the triple tap and then run around the range twice then do the single tap. Its still concurrent shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

I'm saying it doesn't matter. My point is that taking the instructions as a whole, you know not to put your last triple tap on the 2nd target because when you put your tenth on there its a quad tap if you do. Thats been my point all along. Then or period or a set of jumping jacks in between the triple tap and single tap is a line that people are imagining is there when it aint. Dont matter if you shoot the triple tap and then run around the range twice then do the single tap. Its still concurrent shots.

 

Yup, there's the source of the disagreement.  Definition of terms. 

 

Hope to have a drink with ya some day.

 

Doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, as long as all shooters understood prior to anyone shooting the stage, that four (4) consecutive shots could be placed on the middle target without creating a  procedural for a quad-tap, then I see no harm & no foul.  The difference round here, we were instructed that shooting four consecutive shots on the center target would be a procedural. It's just that I have witnessed on several occasions a long discussion part way thru a stage when a shooter tried to sway everyone to his individual interpretation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said I gave up.

 

I was sure I was done here.   But it just kept going!   Ironically, we seem to have forgotten how it all started.   So, going back to the very beginning quoting the instruction that started this discussion, we read...

 

 “Triple tap targets in any order, put tenth shot on center target.”

 

That comma is crucial.  It divides the sentence into two separate clauses.   It creates two sets of instructions.

 

The first instruction, the one before the comma, says to triple tap the targets in any order.

 

Shooting 111  333  222  Is one of a handful of proper orders.  It fulfills the first instruction to triple tap in any order

 

The second instruction says to put tenth shot on center target.

 

Shooting 2 is putting the 10th round on the center target.   It fulfills the second instruction to do so.

 

The stage instructions have been followed as written.  No P.

 

That comma does create two separate actions.  That one follows the other does not negate the last triple tap or turn it into a quad tap.  It is a triple tap followed by a single tap that simply happens to be on the same target.  There is you line of demarcation.   If you can't do 111 333 222 2, then you can't fulfill the stage as written because the initial 111 333 222 IS doing it in any order.  

 

In other words, this stage was actually not poorly written, but cleverly written.  With just a little thinking, some may realize that there is a potentially quicker way to do it than some other ways.   That's the whole point of a "shooters choice" stage.  There are multiple ways to do it, but there might be one way that is "superior" to other possible ways.  Figuring out what it is, is not a bad thing.   

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an earlier post, I had suggested that based on the instructions as written, I could also shoot the stage:  2-111-333-222.

I triple tapped each target AND my last shot was on #2, per instructions.

 

I was quickly informed that I would earn a 'P' for that action because it didn't follow the 'triple tap'

instructions because I single tapped my first shot.

 

If the stage instructions restricted my 1st shot 'idea', then why wouldn't it restrict that last shot for the same reasons?

 

Now, can we have it both ways?

 

..........Widder

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I said I gave up.

 

I was sure I was done here.   But it just kept going!   Ironically, we seem to have forgotten how it all started.   So, going back to the very beginning quoting the instruction that started this discussion, we read...

 

 “Triple tap targets in any order, put tenth shot on center target.”

 

That comma is crucial.  It divides the sentence into two separate clauses.   It creates two sets of instructions.

 

The first instruction, the one before the comma, says to triple tap the targets in any order.

 

Shooting 111  333  222  Is one of a handful of proper orders.  It fulfills the first instruction to triple tap in any order

 

The second instruction says to put tenth shot on center target.

 

Shooting 2 is putting the 10th round on the center target.   It fulfills the second instruction to do so.

 

The stage instructions have been followed as written.  No P.

 

That comma does create two separate actions.  That one follows the other does not negate the last triple tap or turn it into a quad tap.  It is a triple tap followed by a single tap that simply happens to be on the same target.  There is you line of demarcation.   If you can't do 111 333 222 2, then you can't fulfill the stage as written because the initial 111 333 222 IS doing it in any order.  

 

In other words, this stage was actually not poorly written, but cleverly written.  With just a little thinking, some may realize that there is a potentially quicker way to do it than some other ways.   That's the whole point of a "shooters choice" stage.  There are multiple ways to do it, but there might be one way that is "superior" to other possible ways.  Figuring out what it is, is not a bad thing.   

 

 

 

This isn't the 2nd Amendment we're talking about here:lol:

 

Everything depends on one's definition of Quad Tap.

 

Oy...

 

Phantom

 

PS: There's logic on both sides of the argument... Stop demeaning others that have a different take on this issue... That or stop telling folks how you live the Cowboy Way.:wacko:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gonna have to remember this logic/argument.

The next time someone says to put 5 rounds on two targets w/ no double taps I will just put 1 round on the first target and 4 on the second.

Then I will simply explain that I didn't do a double tap … just a single tap on the first target and a quad tap on the second!! :ph34r:

Edit:

deadhorse.jpg.94e18a278ae216c6f9c032d65c40fa44.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

I'm gonna have to remember this logic/argument.

The next time someone says to put 5 rounds on two targets w/ no double taps I will just put 1 round on the first target and 4 on the second.

Then I will simply explain that I didn't do a double tap … just a single tap on the first target and a quad tap on the second!! :ph34r:

Ill give you a p for 2 double taps. See thats the problem with imaginary lines. They up for interpretation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

I'm gonna have to remember this logic/argument.

The next time someone says to put 5 rounds on two targets w/ no double taps I will just put 1 round on the first target and 4 on the second.

Then I will simply explain that I didn't do a double tap … just a single tap on the first target and a quad tap on the second!! :ph34r:

Edit:

deadhorse.jpg.94e18a278ae216c6f9c032d65c40fa44.jpg

Trust me, I can up with a silly scenario to make your position seem illogical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Ill give you a p for 2 double taps. See thats the problem with imaginary lines. They up for interpretation.

OK ... your almost home!!

Lets just change that instruction to: "put 5 rounds on two targets w/ no triple taps" ... AND ... I do it again ... I put 1 round on the first target and 4 on the second.

Will you now give me that same P for doing a triple tap on the second target??

 

Edit: Of course if  you do ... you are then admitting that I accomplished a triple tap even though I put 4 consecutive shots on the same target.

Which seemed to be the logic hangup you were having with this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

OK ... your almost home!!

Lets just change that instruction to: "put 5 rounds on two targets w/ no triple taps" ... AND ... I do it again ... I put 1 round on the first target and 4 on the second.

Will you now give me that same P for doing a triple tap on the second target??

 

Edit: Of course if  you do ... you are then admitting that I accomplished a triple tap even though I put 4 consecutive shots on the same target.

Which seemed to be the logic hangup you were having with this thread.

Nope. Done went through this several pages ago. Shots are cumulative. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2018 at 9:39 PM, Shooting Bull said:

Rifle and pistol had three targets each. Both had same instructions. “Triple tap targets in any order, put tenth shot on center target.”  Stage write was unavailable for clarification. Would you as the TO allow a triple tap on targets one and three then a triple tap +1 on the center? 

 

What happens if the T.O. has given P's to those who put 4 on target 2, and the stage writer happens by and says, "oh yeah, they can do that."?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oooookay:lol:

 

Please define quad tap.

Anybody answer Phantoms' legitimate question yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Well then ... the stage writer didn't "WRITE" what he "INTENDED" ... In my scenario it says "no double taps" as soon as 2 consecutive taps hit the same target  you have achieved a double tap and you are getting a "P". Doesn't matter how many more shots you put on that target ... when you hit 2 you bought it.

 

Just like the scenario that started this thread .... When you hit three ... you achieved a triple tap (which was asked for) ... and that is that ... It also asks to put the 10th round on the center target ... and that was achieved too. 

 

 

 

Yay! You're almost there! Shots are CUMULATIVE.

 

Instruction is to triple tap.

1 hit good

2 hits good

3 hits good

4 hits P

Instructions no double tap

1 hit good

2 hits P

3 hits still P because you can't erase a P no matter how you shoot the rest of the stage.

 

Keep going you almost got it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.