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Blazen Vaquero, SASS 69509

EOT overall a great match - Just one pet peeve

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Well,

 

My opinion is that the folks who are willing to keep shooting until they achieve the fastest time for the day and have put in the extreme number of repetitions of live and dry fire practice are the ones who would also achieve the best first runs the majority of the time. There will be only a few competitors at each speed side match event who have the talent to win regardless of the award being for 1st run or the fastest time for the day. That success will merely rotate among those few elite shooters.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS My participation in speed side match events is for checking firearm function and getting accustom to the types of targets to be utilized during the match.

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My vote is to leave it alone. Speed means speed and I would like to see who is the fastest. When TA Chance puts a match together it is well thought out and appreciated. There are at best five to ten shooters in the world capable of winning this event. I love the back and forth for those shooters, and for shooters like myself who would like the chance to see my sights before I shoot the main match. Thank you to those who stepped forward to put on the speed event and thank you TA Chance and EOT for an incredible event.

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I do not intend offense by the classification of anyone as sheeple. I am merely making the observation that there is a herd mentality in effect where one goes others follow without independent thought. Those that choose to disagree are chastised, dismissed and in some cases informed of the error of their ways in a less than polite manner. I'm not going to let it go unchecked. After all, isn't the cowboy way to stand up for what one believes is right? I believe everyone's opinion has value, but don't think for a second an entitled person telling me no or that I'm wrong will sway me in the least if I believe I am righteous.

Have a great weekend!

Did it ever occur to you that the "sheeple" may have come to their own conclusions and just happen to agree with each other?

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Carolina Gunslinger, I appreciate your kind words. It means more than most people would imagine, unless they knew about my "ruler on your knuckles." :o;) You Sir, know how to take a critique that was intended to be constructive.

 

About the Sheeple comment, I've been chastised for allowing Phantom to use it, in fact, I think he was the first to use it here. Several people on this thread have even lobbied for his return despite his repeated use of that kind of demeaning language. That said, CG, don't make me get my ruler. :)

Regards,

 

Allie

 

Oh Lord, I just got done with a 3-gun match. My whole life hurts and I have sunburn. "Don't hit me Boss! Please don't hit me again! I'll get my mind right!"(Paraphrasing Cool Hand Luke)

 

 

Did it ever occur to you that the "sheeple" may have come to their own conclusions and just happen to agree with each other?

Sir, it would appear that some folks who hang out here are like some sort of QRF(Quick Reaction Force) for each other tied together in a mountaineering chain spanning the whole forum. You're bound to bump into one or many or the rope and when that occurs it seems like the whole gang comes down upon a poster. Now there's a mess of people tangled up and all this bloody rope(Boondock Saints) and everyone is racing to the bottom of the mountain away from the topic. I believe that this reality is percieved by many to be reason enough not to post at all and that's truly a shame.

 

As long as folks stop quoting me, I am willing to drop this right here. If not, resilience and tenacity shall I embody.

 

Positive Energy:

There was a great moment where CAS shined in the eyes of countless other potential cross over shooters this weekend at a complex modern 3-gun match: magnet pickups for falling steel plates. We had nearly a hundred pieces of falling plates. So I went to Harbor Freight, bought and donated four magnet pickups for this match I was helping to run, as staff. They're on sale for $9.99 right now, if anyone's interested. Any way, everyone loved them and asked where I got the idea. I told them about a CAS match in VA and how folks have thought about many aspects of the match and how to make it more comfortable and easier to reset. This led to all kinds of discussion about CAS and ended up with my absolute favorite part of shooting: two six-guns blazing away(at the same time, one in each hand of course).

I wish everyone a great holiday weekend!🎆🎆🎆

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I helped run the Speed Pistol at EOT and truly enjoyed watching competitor after competitor come through the line trying to either best themselves, their friends, or the score on the sheet. Everyone was having a good time and I enjoyed watching the shooters come through trying to blaze away and beat a score.

 

After every time they come through they went to the unloading table and got back in line and tried all over again when it was their turn. I am only mentioning this because of a comment way back on page 2 or 3 about a shooter monopolizing a TO's time - which didn't happen at all when I was helping run the event or to the person before me.

 

I will say there was some pretty cool friendly rivalries going on and it was fun watching a couple shooters going for more ammo as their buddy had just beat their time. Which by the way wasn't the top time in all cases just a friend trying to best his bud.

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CG,

I haven't been back to the VA State match since 2004... I'm way overdue! It was a fun match. Hope to make it this year! I'll shoot the side matches however you have them. I shoot side match day as a final function test for me and my guns. Sometimes one or the other are not working properly!

 

Duc

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CG,

I haven't been back to the VA State match since 2004... I'm way overdue! It was a fun match. Hope to make it this year! I'll shoot the side matches however you have them. I shoot side match day as a final function test for me and my guns. Sometimes one or the other are not working properly!

 

Duc

Hi Duc,

I think you misunderstood. I run three gun and modern pistol matches. CAS is like golf for me. I'm terrible at it, but sometimes when all things are working, I have fun doing it.

Best,

CG

Autocorrect errors are fun!

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I helped run the Speed Pistol at EOT and truly enjoyed watching competitor after competitor come through the line trying to either best themselves, their friends, or the score on the sheet. Everyone was having a good time and I enjoyed watching the shooters come through trying to blaze away and beat a score.

 

After every time they come through they went to the unloading table and got back in line and tried all over again when it was their turn. I am only mentioning this because of a comment way back on page 2 or 3 about a shooter monopolizing a TO's time - which didn't happen at all when I was helping run the event or to the person before me.

 

I will say there was some pretty cool friendly rivalries going on and it was fun watching a couple shooters going for more ammo as their buddy had just beat their time. Which by the way wasn't the top time in all cases just a friend trying to best his bud.

Thank you for volunteering your time to help this great event run. It's people like you that keep this sport alive.

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CG,

I haven't been back to the VA State match since 2004... I'm way overdue! It was a fun match. Hope to make it this year! I'll shoot the side matches however you have them. I shoot side match day as a final function test for me and my guns. Sometimes one or the other are not working properly!

 

Duc

 

Well we sure hope you can make it this year! And bring some friends too. Trapper Dan stepped down as MD and turned it over to Maddog Irv, so we're excited to see what changes this will bring about. I'm with you on the side matches as a last check to see how things are working. CG can tell you I'm pretty easy to beat and I'll even loan you the guns and ammo to do it with. :wacko: I prefer the 3 or 4 stage mini matches to the speed shoots anyhow.

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Well we sure hope you can make it this year! And bring some friends too. Trapper Dan stepped down as MD and turned it over to Maddog Irv, so we're excited to see what changes this will bring about. I'm with you on the side matches as a last check to see how things are working. CG can tell you I'm pretty easy to beat and I'll even loan you the guns and ammo to do it with. :wacko: I prefer the 3 or 4 stage mini matches to the speed shoots anyhow.

I will tell anyone that Cody Maverick is a solid and highly skilled shooter whom I respect and admire. I will also characterize him as kind and generous enough to let me try out his equipment which is of the finest quality. I happened to best him once. The lever action shotgun just happened to go very well for me on the first try. I watched Cody demonstrate the loading technique which I translated as very similar to loading an M1 Garand...highly familiar territory. Trapper Dan is also an awesome shooter that has taught me a lot in a very small amount of time.

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Why not have some side matches that are something other than just speed this, speed that, and speed the other thing?

 

After a while, you come to realize that there is no point in even trying these side matches.

 

And what about the long range side matches? With the target so small and far away that some people can't even even see them, they become not worth the effort either. I am not saying bring the targets closer, just make them bigger. I may not get a decent sized grouping, but if I can at least see the target to actually have a chance to hit it, I would not wind up skipping the event like I did this year.

 

Something to ponder:

 

There are plenty of folks faster with pistols than I am. If they show up does that mean I'm not going to compete? Absolutely not! I'm going to run it to see if I can beat me personal best time. If ANY individual is pushing themselves to get better, utilizing a speed event to try and improve THEIR OWN skills IS GREAT-regardless of who else is participating.

 

Is it amazing to watch some cowboys and cowgirls absolutely rip through some targets? Yep. Is it just as neat to watch someone who has zero chance of winning to get up there and give their best? Probably more so. I've seen a 70+ year old man do that and it was awesome. ;) THAT is "cowboy attitude".

 

Never give up pushing yourself. ........ :mellow: ................. unless it's time to sit down and watch a good movie. :D

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I help run the speed pistols at Bayou Blast for two years and I loved to watch shooters come up and try to beat their last time.The only pet peeve I have about EOT is that I have never gotten to go and may never.I think that anyone that get to go to a shoot like EOT or WR are very lucky cowboy or cowgirls.

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I have no problem with the I won and I bought cats especially to buy the additional chance the money goes to the sass scolarship or museum.

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Well I'm in the group that would like to see speed and accuracy matches

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Mr.Cole,you got to see fast and accuracy in the main match at EOT.The top two shooters were the fastest and shot the match clean.

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Fore the main match I saw nether shoot I was referring to seperate speed and accuracy side matches

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I personally prefer matches which allows the shooters to shoot as many times as they want. Shoot once and go to the back of the line.

 

I go for the Long Range Events. I am not fast at anything, to include the matches, but am pretty good at the Long Range.

 

I have elected not to shoot at matches that you only shoot once or have to declare for score. Why drive for hours to shoot for 15 - 20 seconds and you are done. I stay for the cowboy shooting to mix with the folks, but know that I don't have a prayer of a chance at actually winning anything.

 

Lone Rider

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I personally prefer matches which allows the shooters to shoot as many times as they want. Shoot once and go to the back of the line.

 

I go for the Long Range Events. I am not fast at anything, to include the matches, but am pretty good at the Long Range.

 

I have elected not to shoot at matches that you only shoot once or have to declare for score. Why drive for hours to shoot for 15 - 20 seconds and you are done. I stay for the cowboy shooting to mix with the folks, but know that I don't have a prayer of a chance at actually winning anything.

 

Lone Rider

This topic seems to be lost after 4 pages. I never suggested that any match only allow one time to shoot a side match. If a side match is open during certain hours let the Cowboys/Cowgirls shoot as many times as they want. Once then back to the line. Just have two separate "categories". One for when you declare and one for the fastest of the fast. This takes care of both those who wish to watch the greatest shoot for speed or to test their ability and those who can put together a good time together that one time they declare. Of course the fastest shooters may win anyway, but that is not the point. I thought we in SASS what to be inclusive. IMHO this is one way to do that without burdening the scorekeepers or MDs.

P.S. As for being inclusive, split the shotguns (double, hammered, 97, 87) and pistols (duelist, gunfighter, etc). A fancy award is not necessary but other than a very few, a duelist can not compete against regular pistol shooter.

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This topic seems to be lost after 4 pages. I never suggested that any match only allow one time to shoot a side match. If a side match is open during certain hours let the Cowboys/Cowgirls shoot as many times as they want. Once then back to the line. Just have two separate "categories". One for when you declare and one for the fastest of the fast. This takes care of both those who wish to watch the greatest shoot for speed or to test their ability and those who can put together a good time together that one time they declare. Of course the fastest shooters may win anyway, but that is not the point. I thought we in SASS what to be inclusive. IMHO this is one way to do that without burdening the scorekeepers or MDs.

P.S. As for being inclusive, split the shotguns (double, hammered, 97, 87) and pistols (duelist, gunfighter, etc). A fancy award is not necessary but other than a very few, a duelist can not compete against regular pistol shooter.

 

I was with you right up to the very end. Shooting duelist I think I can compete just fine against most of the 'regular pistol shooters' and I can name quite a few duelists that are much faster than I am. It really depends on the individuals involved.

 

Now you take that back! :P

 

btw, some and maybe most of the side matches I entered, the scorekeeper only recorded your score if yours was the new fastest. I didn't like that much, I would also like to see them record and post them all. But hey; a lot of things would be different if I was in charge. :angry:;)

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One element in this discussion that seems to be missing is the fact that with all the record keeping, etc... you will be working the TO/helpers to death.

 

They don't get much of a rest during their time frame of working the side matches and to ask them to make it even more tedious will end up having no one volunteering to help.

 

And one of the major reasons some side match suggestions do not happen is because of the lack of workers and lack of interest. Just because one or two folks think something might be good, doesn't mean it can easily happen.

It takes workers.

 

Just another thought.

 

 

..........Widder

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One element in this discussion that seems to be missing is the fact that with all the record keeping, etc... you will be working the TO/helpers to death.

 

They don't get much of a rest during their time frame of working the side matches and to ask them to make it even more tedious will end up having no one volunteering to help.

 

And one of the major reasons some side match suggestions do not happen is because of the lack of workers and lack of interest. Just because one or two folks think something might be good, doesn't mean it can easily happen.

It takes workers.

 

Just another thought.

 

 

..........Widder

Widder,

 

Deputise some unsuspecting side match participant that is waiting in line to shoot the 'speed match' to keep score or reset. Save their place in line, and when you loose them,, deputiese another. If no takers, well, then the process will go to a very sloooow crawl pace.

 

I agree, record all attempts and when finished post on the nearest green tree for all to see.

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One element in this discussion that seems to be missing is the fact that with all the record keeping, etc... you will be working the TO/helpers to death.

 

They don't get much of a rest during their time frame of working the side matches and to ask them to make it even more tedious will end up having no one volunteering to help.

 

And one of the major reasons some side match suggestions do not happen is because of the lack of workers and lack of interest. Just because one or two folks think something might be good, doesn't mean it can easily happen.

It takes workers.

 

Just another thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

Good point Widder, If it were I volunteering and there were just a couple of folks wanting to keep at it all day, I would give them the clock and the score sheets then go sit in the shade with my water bottle and enjoy the show.

 

A few years ago at our State match there was a bay setup with a Texas star that you shot with your pistols. Only one volunteer was there doing it all. He was getting some sporadic help resetting the star but mostly was trying to do it alone. I stayed and helped him a few times and asked why he didn't have any other volunteers helping him. He told me 'obviously they're a bit smarter than me, these folks can help or wait either way I'm done at 4." He was in no hurry.

 

Hanging around did pay off though, I got to see Walker Colt do it and it was amazing! I don't believe that thing moved more than a couple of inches before he had all the plates off it. Good thing I didn't blink or I would've missed it completely. I asked him if he was going to do it again (I was gonna get my camera) but he just gave me one of those "yeah, right" kinda looks and moved on. I'm sure he knew he wouldn't need to do that one twice. I knew then "I wanna gunfighter when I grow up". :)

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One element in this discussion that seems to be missing is the fact that with all the record keeping, etc... you will be working the TO/helpers to death.

 

They don't get much of a rest during their time frame of working the side matches and to ask them to make it even more tedious will end up having no one volunteering to help.

 

And one of the major reasons some side match suggestions do not happen is because of the lack of workers and lack of interest. Just because one or two folks think something might be good, doesn't mean it can easily happen.

It takes workers.

 

Just another thought.

 

 

..........Widder

No more record keeping necessary. Only 1 "white board" necessary spit in half. Only record the fastest for those shooting multiple times on one side of the board. On the other side record the fastest of those that declare their run. Everyone can write down their own scores if they want. Just announce the winners and winning times at the appropriate time. In these four pages of discussion, 126 replies and over 4000 views, I don't recall anyone saying how this really hurts the game.

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I agree with Widowmaker. Too much work for the TO volunteering his time. I will normally work the side matches at 2-3 annual matches a year. Depending on which one you get stuck with, you can be a real busy person. EVEN with just speed pistol. You have mens, womens and at some places you will have young guns boys/girls. I have no problem running people thru as many times as they want, but dont expect me to enter every score. Thats one sure way to make sure you have no one volunteering to work the next match.

 

I have before kept up with the fastest 2-3 runs, some matches have awarded trophies that deep.

 

I guess I have been lucky though, I have never had a shooter hold up the line to keep running over and over. They will always shoot and then move to the back of the line. UNLESS, there is no one else in line. They I will keep running them as long as they want or until another shooter shows up

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I agree with Widowmaker. Too much work for the TO volunteering his time. I will normally work the side matches at 2-3 annual matches a year. Depending on which one you get stuck with, you can be a real busy person. EVEN with just speed pistol. You have mens, womens and at some places you will have young guns boys/girls. I have no problem running people thru as many times as they want, but dont expect me to enter every score. Thats one sure way to make sure you have no one volunteering to work the next match.

 

I have before kept up with the fastest 2-3 runs, some matches have awarded trophies that deep.

 

I guess I have been lucky though, I have never had a shooter hold up the line to keep running over and over. They will always shoot and then move to the back of the line. UNLESS, there is no one else in line. They I will keep running them as long as they want or until another shooter shows up

What is it about recording only a faster time of those shooting multiple times and only recording a faster time when someone declares. No more record keeping is necessary. This can be on the same white board now used at many matches. I guess I don't explain very well or ??

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In general, derringer & pocket pistol are where I've seen people shoot numerous times in a row. I've let shooters go 3 times, then back if the line.

 

On writing down scores, most use a white board and just keep top time, until somebody beats it, then erase and put new alias and time.

Suppose ole SneakySnake posts a blazing time late in day on speed rifle, then goes to next side match, and drops a loaded gun, shoots a prop, our some other side MDQ. But there are no other times listed on speed rifle, even though some other shooter may have only been .01 slower. Who wins speed rifle? I think at least fastest 3-4 scores ought to be listed.

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SASS just e-mailed a survey out regarding EOT 2016. Now is a good time to repeat your concerns about the conduct of side matches and other matters using the survey.

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Folks,

 

Please comment about the match as requested. I know that they wouldn't ask if they weren't looking to improve the match.

 

Sincerely,

 

Allie

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Very well run match, stages, entertainment etc. BUT....

 

1. When side matches allow someone to shoot 10, 20, 30 or more times for their fastest score to win, the winner will be someone willing to stick around that side match with their bag of ammo to keep shooting to beat the last one who just beat them. I watched someone shoot more than 10 times before they got off all their shots and let alone hit all the targets. They shot very fast finally when they got it together. Good thing they weren't facing someone shooting back. I don't fault the shooter - those were the rules. I know the score keepers only want to keep the fastest time for the sake of simplicity, so shoot as many times as you want but announce when this time will be your scored time. Seems simple to me. If you don't want to punch a card to keep track then rely on the honesty of the shooters not to come back to shoot again. Nobody worth their salt will cheat in our game.

2. Why not announce the times for each event. I would have liked to know how close I was and maybe others would too. This should be posted also as well as announced at the awards.

 

We will be definitely be back next year.

 

P.S. So I am not misunderstood. Allow the shooters to shoot as many times as they want just not for time. That way buddies can still compete against each other for bragging rights. It could even be announced to show just how fast any side match can be shot.

Reply to 1. If the side match is "fastest" then it means exactly what it says not "fastest first time through smooth with no hiccups winner". You wanna win? then win it with the fastest time and don't let anyone be able to beat your time. if someone walks up 45 mins later and beats it, tough luck, unless you go up there and beat the fastest time again. if they wanna sit around all day trying to be it (If they do actually beat it), let them. if you are truly the fastest you have nothing to worry about. if you want the trophy that bad then youll keep checking the score to make sure you are the winner ;)

 

Reply to 2. I agree. people put in a lot of time and practice to win side match events. they deserve their times as well as scores (EX: sporting clays winner with 45/50) to be announced as they do with stage winners in a match. (most of the time)

 

I won and lost many side matches at this years EOT as well as helped several side matches and put on the wildbunch shootoff with help from boggus deal. no complaints other than times and scores not being posted/announced as well as no awards for 5 stand wildbunch team this year. The shooters and waddies were phenomenal help.

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Aren't these side matches listed as "speed pistol, speed rifle, etc." at least most of them I've seen are. Not "fastest pistol". There is a target that has to be hit, not just cycling the gun into the berm, so it's not just the fastest. No different than the main match. Speed AND hitting the targets. First time through counts for the main match or are you saying we aren't really identifying the fastest (while hitting the target's) in the main match competition. Smokin Gator

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Reply to 1. If the side match is "fastest" then it means exactly what it says not "fastest first time through smooth with no hiccups winner". You wanna win? then win it with the fastest time and don't let anyone be able to beat your time. if someone walks up 45 mins later and beats it, tough luck, unless you go up there and beat the fastest time again. if they wanna sit around all day trying to be it (If they do actually beat it), let them. if you are truly the fastest you have nothing to worry about. if you want the trophy that bad then youll keep checking the score to make sure you are the winner ;)

 

Reply to 2. I agree. people put in a lot of time and practice to win side match events. they deserve their times as well as scores (EX: sporting clays winner with 45/50) to be announced as they do with stage winners in a match. (most of the time)

 

I won and lost many side matches at this years EOT as well as helped several side matches and put on the wildbunch shootoff with help from boggus deal. no complaints other than times and scores not being posted/announced as well as no awards for 5 stand wildbunch team this year. The shooters and waddies were phenomenal help.

This pretty much sums it up!

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Aren't these side matches listed as "speed pistol, speed rifle, etc." at least most of them I've seen are. Not "fastest pistol". There is a target that has to be hit, not just cycling the gun into the berm, so it's not just the fastest. No different than the main match. Speed AND hitting the targets. First time through counts for the main match or are you saying we aren't really identifying the fastest (while hitting the target's) in the main match competition. Smokin Gator

the targets at the cowboy match and speed events were close enought to pee on. So I'd say the whole hitting targets thing is a given. Unless you really Jerk the gun. Of course if you have a miss you aren't going to win a speed event I think everyone knows that?

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