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Blazen Vaquero, SASS 69509

EOT overall a great match - Just one pet peeve

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Lets not fool ourselves, the entire purpose of this thread is meant to diminish what others have done.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It is not possible to diminish what it takes to record a 1.99 second rifle. You and others of your ability have earned the respect from me and I am sure from the SASS community. A two tiered approach gives credit to just how fast you can shoot as well as that cowboy/cowgirl who gets it right when they call for their time. Who the heck is harmed by this approach?

 

Why don't you just step up and run side matches at EOT 17 Then you may be able to run them the way you want to!!

 

Just Sayin! :):D:)

 

LSL

I have run side matches many times although not at EOT. EOT and WR determine how they want them run. Regardless my way would take no more time, give both their due. Once again who is harmed?

 

One way is a Competition the other is an Exhibition.

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Why not have some side matches that are something other than just speed this, speed that, and speed the other thing?

 

After a while, you come to realize that there is no point in even trying these side matches.

 

And what about the long range side matches? With the target so small and far away that some people can't even even see them, they become not worth the effort either. I am not saying bring the targets closer, just make them bigger. I may not get a decent sized grouping, but if I can at least see the target to actually have a chance to hit it, I would not wind up skipping the event like I did this year.

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In the long range rifle it is a timed event in that you have a set amount of time to complete your string. You also may shoot as many times as you want. I disagree with that. I think it should be your first attempt is for score; If you want to shoot after that for your own entertainment go for it. Having said that my thinking it should be different didn't stop me from working that side match from 11 am to 3 pm. You don't have to agree with everything about the way a match is run to help out with it. kR

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I can not think of another competition where the competitor has limitless attempts at the event to acquire the best possible score. With that said, any SASS events organizers can set whatever guidelines they wish for their competition.

 

With these speed side matches, It would be entertaining to hear the result as 'time and number of attempts to get the score.'

 

The match organizers could also allow endless attempts at main match stages and allow shooter to choose which run they want for the official score. Have twelve bays, and allow shooters to mingle around and shoot each stage how ever many times they wish. Have the bays open 24 hours/day for how many days the even is scheduled.

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Lets not fool ourselves, the entire purpose of this thread is meant to diminish what others have done.

Well from what it sounded like to me the one fella just wanted to see some sort of limit placed on how many tries were made.

 

Seems like an opinion can't be voiced around here unless it's endorsed by one of the chosen. Otherwise the chosen berate, belittle and/or devalue said thought.

 

Something else to consider: I and I presume many use their phones to surf this forum. Therefore I am unable to see all the toutings and achievements of each and every poster. Unless I have seen a video of the individual named denoting their prowess and skill, I look at everyone equally.

 

Personally I'd like to see which man came away fastest on his first try, no alibi. On demand means something to me and it gives the everyman a chance at an upset. You speed demons are very good by default, likely better than most so why the trepidation in not getting a bunch of tries?

 

I personally have no belt buckles and am slower than molasses in January so feel free to ignore my opinion.

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I've run Speed Shotgun and pocket pistol/derringer side matches.

When a Pard made multiple runs, I let it go until another Pard was in line. Then I limited the runs to 5 at a time by any Pard until there were no more waiting.

 

Some times the Pards who were waiting in line said let the shooting Pard continue until through as it was a leaning experience.

 

Black Hawk Henry sure showed a bunch of us how to run a SxS fast this way. None of us wanted him to stop.

 

Seemed to keep everyone happy.

 

AR

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Some matches are all inclusive which means side matches are for everybody ALL DAY long at no additional cost.

 

Some matches add some sort of various extra fee for ALL day participation in Side Matches. Some might cost $1 each time thru and some have a flat rate to Run N Gun all day long.

 

Personally, I don't think it would be right to have someone stand in line for 10 minutes to shoot AGAIN and then ask them to step aside to someone who just walked up for their 1st time. They should stand in line just like everyone else, regardless of the degree of their participation.

 

"First Run Only" usually has all the top shooters, of that particular firearm, running within a few .00 of each other. And recognition of that FIRST RUN is most appropriate.

 

BUT, when some of these Pards get warmed up, some of their runs are nothing short of hellacious.

 

Think about it: SG in hand, 4 shots on 4 KD's in the 2.8 range.

Or SG on table, 6 on 6 in the 4.9 and low 5.0 range.

 

I think its most appropriate to also recognize these type runs.

 

Remember, at ANY speed, all the targets must still be hit in order for the time to count. And ALL SG targets MUST fall in order to count. A slight movement of the KD doesn't count.

 

Nobody drives home the Caddy. But its a sight to behold when you see some of our best and fastest shooters standing in line together, joking and having fun, waiting their turn to exhibit WARP SPEEDS when they get the 'beep'.

 

It can all be good.

 

 

..........Widder

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It can all be solved with, announce your run for scored time. Your choice to shoot it 1 or 100 times before you announce.

 

and

 

Let everyone shoot as many times as they want to see who the "fastest" is. Announce both.

 

Otherwise with some previous logic the "Man on Man" should be shot until neither one has a hiccup to see who the fastest truly is.

 

BV

This makes absolutely no sense

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This makes absolutely no sense

If you allow a side match shooter to reshoot because of a hiccup to see who the fastest is - how about man on man. I am only equating two different competitions. But we do digress...

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My only improvement suggestion would be to limit how many times a shooter can shoot the side match in a row before going to the back of the line. I had a friend wait almost 30 minutes to shoot one of the side matches. This took time away from other side matches he wanted to shoot and sort of was a downer for the entire side match day. If you are the only one shooting then shoot all you want, but when someone else gets in line let them shoot and come back. Just my .02

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Misty said SASS would send out a survey for feedback on EOT. I hope those who have strong opinions on the side matches take time to complete the survey.

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If you allow a side match shooter to reshoot because of a hiccup to see who the fastest is - how about man on man. I am only equating two different competitions. But we do digress...

Hi Blazen,

 

This brings up something else I have an opinion about. :o;) Some MoMs have SG targets to be used to make up misses as an option (not mandatory). For example, if one rifle was missed, it could be made up by hitting one make-up SG target. Sometimes, it is a moot point to make up a target as you are just too slow. So, you may not choose that option in hopes that the other shooter will miss too. Other times a really fast shooter misses one and can make it up in time to win. IMO it adds to the suspense and excitement of a shoot off, especially when someone makes up a miss in time to win.

 

Regards,

 

Allie :ph34r:

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My only improvement suggestion would be to limit how many times a shooter can shoot the side match in a row before going to the back of the line. I had a friend wait almost 30 minutes to shoot one of the side matches. This took time away from other side matches he wanted to shoot and sort of was a downer for the entire side match day. If you are the only one shooting then shoot all you want, but when someone else gets in line let them shoot and come back. Just my .02

This is simply an extreme lack of consideration from the shooter who hogs the line as well as the TO. I have seen it also although not to that extreme. Can't imagine such willful disregard for common courtesy.

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The problem I always have with side matches is when I shoot pocket pistol and I get a great run, somebody comes along and watches for a bit and says they would love to try that. I loan them my gun and some ammo and then I end up in second place. I can name at least three times that has happened. I have a really good gun from the 20's- or 30's that had been a nightstand gun and never fired until I got it. It works right 100% when the operator does not screw up.

 

I have seen lots of ways side matches are run, I would just like to see a list of the scores for all runs so I know how well or bad I did over the course of the match.

I think one place use to use the first run for the "top gun" and the "I bought it" for the one that won on one or more tries. However, I found it was cheaper to bribe the officials for the "I bought it" that use up all my ammo. :o

 

Besides , it is the :unsure: "I bought award" :unsure: Nobody usually asked how I bought it anyhow................................ :P

 

 

:angry: Maddog McCoy :angry:

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Personally I'd like to see which man came away fastest on his first try, no alibi.

 

That's called the Main Match.

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My only improvement suggestion would be to limit how many times a shooter can shoot the side match in a row before going to the back of the line.

 

I have never been to a side match where a shooter stays on the line as long as he wants - not even shotgun. Every side match I have been to you shoot one time and go to the back of the line.

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Its called fastest "whatever" for a reason...We want to see who can do it the fastest! It's not fastest "whatever" first try! It is a competition to see who can run their guns the fastest, in order to do that fairly it will take a couple tries!

 

Wait, maybe we can score a side match championship based on rank point! :blink:

 

This is a silly discussion!

 

WK

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Agreed, I shot the derringer and pocket pistol and several were not only spotting it several times but others had to wait on them. I think the first run should count for awards the rests for bragging rights and one run if others are waiting not six or seven runs in a row before they let someone else shot go get back in line after each turn.

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Lets not fool ourselves, the entire purpose of this thread is meant to diminish what others have done.

 

 

...

 

This is a silly discussion!

 

WK

IMO, these are rude comments.

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Just goes to show how hard it is to be a Match Director. No matter what is done there will always be some that are dissatisfied. That is just a fact of life. Discuss it, debate it and then move on.

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I'm not trying to take away from the great main match but side matches could use improvement. I think several things could be done to improve the side matches. Ideally let shooters know ahead of time which side match event will be hosted and the rules for those matches. Ie range for long range shoots, also printing the side match stages in the shooters program so shooters can have the same understanding of the side match stages. Also, first time thru counts not the fastest.

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Put me in the group that says shoot till you get the score you want.

 

I'm fairly new to this sport. until only recently the odds of me placing overall weren't too good. The only way i could have a chance at something was side matches. I see them as a way to show myself what I'm capable of. Also to reference myself against others. That being said i want to know I've bested someone by both of us leaving nothing on the table. Not that one got luckier on their first run.

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Just goes to show how hard it is to be a Match Director. No matter what is done there will always be some that are dissatisfied. That is just a fact of life. Discuss it, debate it and then move on.

I recently shot a match that had no dissatisfaction (or at least I heard of) customers.

 

A key factor, there was no official speed pistol/rifle/ nor SG. Shooters could go down to last bay, and do all of that they wished, take their buddy with them if they wished. Shoot often, shoot fast, shoot till you puke and call Uncle. They took care of themselves for bragging rights.

 

Two official warm up stages (well there was a stage description at least) , first try was for score, anything after was for fun,,,,btw, no awards. Sometimes there was three spotters, and sometimes there were two. The shooters did their best and took the score as called, and you know what? They knew what they missed.. Again, no award and everyone accepted it gladly as just an opportunity to,,,,,,'warm up' and play. Pure lady and gentlemen atmosphere through out this particular annual event.

 

The second key factor for the match... keep it simple.

 

That's all.

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The idea is to see who can do it the fastest... NOT who can do it the fasted on one try. This is not a Long Range match where you get sighting shots, and then announce when you are ready for a score. I encourage everyone to shoot them as many times as they want, and to spend as much money as possible.... borrow money, use your ATM card to get more, etc.... this money helps to support the club or in some cases a charity. I also agree that the first time shooter should get to move to the front of the line.

 

Snakebite

 

I agree!

That is my main concern since I have seen a very few shooters essentially block all others from being able to shoot the side match. It is pretty easy to get caught up in the competition and not realize that the even can be monopolized.

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I can't believe how far in the gutter this thread got! Wow!! :wacko:

 

Allie I agree, maybe you should just shut this one down!

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I can't believe how far in the gutter this thread got! Wow!! :wacko:

 

Allie I agree, maybe you should just shut this one down!

I agree RYE.

 

It seems to have moved from opinions and suggestions to actually branding shooters as line hogs and having a disregard for common courtesy, all because they are playing by the rules/guidelines established by the host club, etc...

 

Bye All.

 

 

..........Widder

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The only side matches I've ever dealt with were shoot and get back in line if you want to try again. Never heard of keep trying until you are happy or out of ammo.

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I can't believe how far in the gutter this thread got! Wow!! :wacko:

 

Allie I agree, maybe you should just shut this one down!

Nope, feller stated his opinion, others disagreed, a couple motives were questioned, response was reasoned, all remained unconvinced... if ya ain't guilty of any aspersions that were cast, don't take offense. What are we, a bunch thin-skinned cowpokes?

 

Best of both ideas... You shoot your turn... if someone comes along & beats ya, ya get back in line, pays a $ and take another go. No other goes until ya get whupped, get back in line... always let the feller that ain't had a go, go first.

 

NOW, debate whether, on your 2nd go, you don't beat the feller what beat ya... do you get a 3rd go?

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NOW, debate whether, on your 2nd go, you don't beat the feller what beat ya... do you get a 3rd go?

Yes of course I have an opinion! And it is... if the reshoot money's for charity or the club coffers, of course he gets as many goes as he has money and/or ammo. Other options might be acceptable... ideas?

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Well if speaking plainly is rude I'm fine with that. When I have a concern or a constructive critisism on a event I go DIRECTLY to the source (the match director). Doing otherwise is disrespectful of the hours and hours and bllood, sweat and tears that has gone into the event.

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Well if speaking plainly is rude I'm fine with that. When I have a concern or a constructive critisism on a event I go DIRECTLY to the source (the match director). Doing otherwise is disrespectful of the hours and hours and bllood, sweat and tears that has gone into the event.

 

I think I just heard a hammer hitting the nail on the head..... :)

 

 

..........Widder

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Well if speaking plainly is rude I'm fine with that. When I have a concern or a constructive critisism on a event I go DIRECTLY to the source (the match director). Doing otherwise is disrespectful of the hours and hours and bllood, sweat and tears that has gone into the event.

I take no offense at what is posted anytime. As far as I am concerned this is a discussion of ideas not personalities, and in the end we may just agree to disagree. As for going to the MD, I did that also, weeks before the match, and directly with TA Chance. He/They chose to run it the way they chose and I had a great time at a great event and will be back regardless of the future decisions. So I don't see "disrespectful" as a proper description although you may. What I believe any MD wants is to please as many participants as possible. Never all, but without knowing what the community wants how does one make those decisions? BTW please in a PM or here, let me know where in this thread that anyone was attempted to devalue your or any of the fastest shooters efforts or abilities. I didn't see it.

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