Dirty Southpaw Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Yesterday I had my 1st stage DQ, what happend was when my pistol was drawn and cocked i adjusted my feet into a better stance but since both feet moved I was told I was moving with a locked and cocked gun and I recived a stage DQ, I understand you cant move but seriously all I did was adjust my stance, I made no step in any direction. So any thoughts? Did i break the rule? Im guessing I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Crowe Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 In for the answer, but unless both feet moved at the same time, I would not think shifting your feet in the same spot would be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Southpaw Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 I was told both feet moved so DQ....I said both feet didn't move at the same time but they said u don't have to move both feet at the same time to take a "step" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Unless both feet moved at the same time, I would not call that a SDQ, that is unless the movement was actually taking a step to move to a different location rather than simply shifting feet like it sounded. From page 27 of the SHB item #12 A shooter with firearm in hand shall never be allowed to move with a live round under a cocked hammer. Movement is defined the same as “traveling” in basketball. Once the firearm is cocked, one foot must remain in place on the ground until the firearm is made safe. Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. Penalty = SDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 As I understand it, one foot must remain planted. If you moved both feet...then I would say you broke the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Crowe Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Basketball rule would apply, but I guess the safe thing to do would be yo adjust your stance "before" cocking your pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Look here. http://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=236848&hl=shuffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 PS Look at post 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 ROI page 17 "Shuffling" the feet to maintain balance or adjust shooting stance is allowed as long as the shooter does not actually change location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicker Nash Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 From RO 1 Handbook 21.6 (Current revision) 20. Movement is not allowed with a loaded, cocked firearm. Movement is defined by the basketball ―traveling‖ rule. Whenever a shooter has a loaded, cocked firearm in hand, at least one foot must remain in place on the ground. 1st violation will result in Stage Disqualification; 2nd violation will result in Match Disqualification. This includes leaving the loading table with a cocked loaded firearm. Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. Penalty = SDQ. "Shuffling" the feet to maintain balance or adjust shooting stance is allowed as long as the shooter does not actually change location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Southpaw Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 i seem to be getting all kinds of info, so im still confused on the rule. ill just try to keep myself planted and adjust after I shoot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 So it comes down to the definition of "shuffle". For me, a shuffle means that the feet don't leave the ground, as in slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 ROI page 17 "Shuffling" the feet to maintain balance or adjust shooting stance is allowed as long as the shooter does not actually change location. Yeah, it's just like the basketball rule except it's not. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Hi Dirty Southpaw, PaleWolf Brunelle is the spokesman for the Range Officer Committee. They are the folks who clarify the written rules. When he writes something, we heed his words. I hope that helps. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Southpaw Posted April 11, 2016 Author Share Posted April 11, 2016 from what i got is when ur hammer is back only move one foot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 from what i got is when ur hammer is back only move one foot..... Yes, it's nicknamed the "Basketball rule" as was said already. Shuffling your feet and changing your position is still moving! It's hard to really tell unless we were there and actually saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 The allowance for "shuffling" without actually changing location was recently added to the RO1 as it pertains to the BBT (basketball traveling rule). That was as of January of 2016. Technically, the shooter could dance a jig with a cocked firearm "in hand" as long as it was done in place...and SAFELY, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 If one foot moves and the other slides, my understanding and experience is you bought the penalty. This happens when someone is in the wrong position and is leaning to hit the right target from the wrong position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yesterday I had my 1st stage DQ, what happend was when my pistol was drawn and cocked i adjusted my feet into a better stance but since both feet moved I was told I was moving with a locked and cocked gun and I recived a stage DQ, I understand you cant move but seriously all I did was adjust my stance, I made no step in any direction. So any thoughts? Did i break the rule? Im guessing I did. Sounds like the club match officials (and shooters) would benefit from a review of the most recent updates to the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 http://www.oowss.com/SASS%20Rules%20Docs/Significant%20Changes%20&%20Clarifications%20-%202016.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 If one foot moves and the other slides, my understanding and experience is you bought the penalty. This happens when someone is in the wrong position and is leaning to hit the right target from the wrong position. Please READ the quoted clarification to the RO1 Post #s 9 & 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 See also RO1 "PENALTY OVERVIEW"...p.26 STAGE DISQUALIFICATIONS The penalty is for CHANGING LOCATION...defined on p. 32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt John Dunbar Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Does anyone else besides me think that someone, especially a young'un, might not feel real excited about Cowboy Action Shooting, and joining SASS, if they came across this discussion while surfing the forum? Geeeeeeeeeesh. A penalty for shifting the feet, or shuffling the feet,, or whatever, without a change of location, doesn't, in my inexperienced opinion, likely have a damn thing to do with safety, and it does likely have a whole lot to do with fun destruction. Just sayin' ......... Sorry, I'm new at this. Had my first match yesterday. What amazing fun! Sure beats shootin' paper targets solo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Does anyone else besides me think that someone, especially a young'un, might not feel real excited about Cowboy Action Shooting, and joining SASS, if they came across this discussion while surfing the forum? Geeeeeeeeeesh. A penalty for shifting the feet, or shuffling the feet,, or whatever, without a change of location, doesn't, in my inexperienced opinion, likely have a damn thing to do with safety, and it does likely have a whole lot to do with fun destruction. Just sayin' ......... THERE IS NONE!! PLEASE READ THE POSTS ABOVE YOURS Sorry, I'm new at this. Had my first match yesterday. What amazing fun! Sure beats shootin' paper targets solo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Lewtenttent Yes, threads like this can be a bit tiresome at times, but I think they are quite important, they help folks from all over the country, perhaps the world, better understand the rules and the sometimes recent modifications and clarifications of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 IMHO, it's discussions like this one that will surely be missed when The Whats The Call Forum starts up. Important rules information is being dissected and likely won't be when the discussion is limited. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 IMHO, it's discussions like this one that will surely be missed when The Whats The Call Forum starts up. Important rules information is being dissected and likely won't be when the discussion is limited. YMMV. Question was asked & answered...that could have been done within two posts without any additional discussion or interjection of un/mis-informed opinions...even after the current applicable rule was quoted. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Question was asked & answered...that could have been done within two posts without any additional discussion or interjection of un/mis-informed opinions...even after the current applicable rule was quoted. IMO So what's wrong with further discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 So what's wrong with further discussion? Nothing...in and of itself; as long as it is relevant and generates additional clarification as needed. Refusal to read or acknowledge a "black & white" reference to the current rule, or arguing for the sake of argument simply because one disagrees with the textbook response (or just to be contrary) is counterproductive. Q + A is the intended format for the "WtC?" Forum. I'm sure that threads there will likely generate additional "opinion" postings on the reg'lar Wire (as usual). It is NOT our (WB/ROC) intent to monitor/moderate multiple threads once an issue has been settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Is it possible to have the placement of this new proclamation blog moved further down, to the end of the list and out of the way of the Wire discussion, Merchant and Classifieds Forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Actually I love the questions and the official response. I learn more each time. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 So what's wrong with further discussion? That is probably fine if you wish to argue for a different rule or a rule change. I think WTC is set up to get a definitive answer to a misunderstood or misapplied rule for those who would like help interpreting the rule book. Once the ROC has clarified (it may take a couple of replies to clear up all the questions), further discussion muddles the answer. We have folks posting here, even after PWB has cited and posted the recent mod, that they would penalize a shooter for the perceived infraction. If that is the case, then why have a rule book at all? You don't have to like the answer, just follow the rules. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I was HAPPY to see the rule change in Jan. so I was up to speed on this one. I ran into an issue where you had to start with the shotgun loaded on yer' shoulder.......which was weird to start with! So after I loaded and shouldered the gun (while saying the line) I adjusted my stance as I prepared to shoot by sliding my feet a few inches to widen my stance a tad. I was warned and almost got a SDQ for that. It's good change IMO as we shoot in gravel, mud & step on brass etc.....if yer' only trying to maintain your balance and not moving to gain an advantage it just seems like the right move to make. Hat's off to the RO committee for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I was HAPPY to see the rule change in Jan. so I was up to speed on this one. I ran into an issue where you had to start with the shotgun loaded on yer' shoulder.......which was weird to start with! So after I loaded and shouldered the gun (while saying the line) I adjusted my stance as I prepared to shoot by sliding my feet a few inches to widen my stance a tad. I was warned and almost got a SDQ for that. It's good change IMO as we shoot in gravel, mud & step on brass etc.....if yer' only trying to maintain your balance and not moving to gain an advantage it just seems like the right move to make. Hat's off to the RO committee for this one. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Was told by a VERY GOOD shooter. Shuffling your feet takes time. Learn to shoot where you are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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