Hurricane Deck 100366 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Stage instructions: Pistol 10 holstered, rifle 10 on box, shotgun 4+ on crate. Order is pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun. Line is: "I was gonna kill ya anyway..." At the beep, engage the three pistol targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep then re-holster. Move to box and engage three rifle targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep, make safe. move to shotgun and engage 4 targets. -- those are the stage instructions in their entirety --- first shooter (shooting in a two-handed category) steps up to the line and at the beep draws his LEFT pistol, puts three rounds on the left target, puts ONE round on the middle target. With the hammer down on a spent case, the shooter re-holsters the LEFT pistol. As he re-holsters the left pistol, the TO tells the shooter "One more! you have one more in that gun!" - by the time the TO's words register with the shooter, he has finished re-holstering the LEFT pistol and drawn and cocked the RIGHT pistol. He then shoots the RIGHT pistol once on the middle target. With the hammer down on the spent case, he re-holsters the RIGHT pistol, draws the LEFT pistol and expends the one last shot on the middle target. He then re-holsters, draws the right pistol, shoots the middle target once and the right target 3 times and continues on in the course of fire using the correct pattern and hitting all targets and KD's What, penalties, if any, do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 None. "... I'se jes' practicin' my pistol transistions..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 You tell us what your call is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Creek Red, SASS # 22854 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 HD, I would not call any penalties either as the pistol string has not been broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No call. "Nice pistol work, pard!" Next shooter. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it. Please cite the rule that states this. BTW - NO CALL on the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it. Cite a rule for that (common misconception), please. Because the rule that applies here is: 11. Safe conditions of firearms during a course of fire are as follows: Revolver(s) Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand. Hammer fully down on an empty chamber, Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition). From page 16, RO I handbook. Bold added, to show what the shooter did by holstering with hammer down on an expended round. Oops, as usual, PWB is pretty hard to beat to the citation. Thanks, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 ...besides being in violation of the rule re: two LOADED revolvers out of leather at the same time would earn the shooter in the OP a Procedural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I was just reading the Gunfighter rule.I know I can't re holster my pistols with live rounds it them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No penalty as shot. But I would have shot three in center with right gun, two on right target, holstered and draw left pitol for one shot on right to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I was just reading the Gunfighter rule.I know I can't re holster my pistols with live rounds it them. OP wasn't a GF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I knew he was not a GF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I was just reading the Gunfighter rule.I know I can't re holster my pistols with live rounds it them. As I read it, the GF'er may holster a gun with live rounds in it, What he cannot do,is then draw that pistol a second time. Otherwise why have the 3rd sentence? SHB pg 14: A Gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds must be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred. Inadvertently leaving unfired rounds in a revolver is a miss unless the round is under the hammer, then it is a Stage Disqualification. Emphasis added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I knew he was not a GF. Then why apply GF rules to the question.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Sorry to have applied anything to it.Want happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No penalty as shot. But I would have shot three in center with right gun, two on right target, holstered and draw left pitol for one shot on right to finish. Yep, woulda been a little faster and less gun handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Deck 100366 Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 It was a no call. The shooter shot the stage clean. First time I've seen it happen, I thought he handled it very well. That would have flustered me something good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it. I can not find that anywhere in the rule book. When you finish at the loading table you have unfired rounds in your pistols. Shooter can show up at the unloading table with unfired rounds in his pistols and get no penalties except misses for the unfired rounds. All this assumes the hammers are down on either an fired round or a empty hole in the cylinder. Happens all the time, cylinder freezes after first shot, shooter pulls trigger and holsters gun, with hammer down, misses counted at unloading table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 GCK, look at page 29 of the latest handbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Stage instructions: Pistol 10 holstered, rifle 10 on box, shotgun 4+ on crate. Order is pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun. Line is: "I was gonna kill ya anyway..." At the beep, engage the three pistol targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep then re-holster. Move to box and engage three rifle targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep, make safe. move to shotgun and engage 4 targets. -- those are the stage instructions in their entirety --- first shooter (shooting in a two-handed category) steps up to the line and at the beep draws his LEFT pistol, puts three rounds on the left target, puts ONE round on the middle target. With the hammer down on a spent case, the shooter re-holsters the LEFT pistol. As he re-holsters the left pistol, the TO tells the shooter "One more! you have one more in that gun!" - by the time the TO's words register with the shooter, he has finished re-holstering the LEFT pistol and drawn and cocked the RIGHT pistol. He then shoots the RIGHT pistol once on the middle target. With the hammer down on the spent case, he re-holsters the RIGHT pistol, draws the LEFT pistol and expends the one last shot on the middle target. He then re-holsters, draws the right pistol, shoots the middle target once and the right target 3 times and continues on in the course of fire using the correct pattern and hitting all targets and KD's What, penalties, if any, do you see? None. Good pistol work. Next shooter !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 LOL....I love just answering the OP and THEN checking out all the answers. Usually I just let it go but....wow. Revolvers shot "out of sequence". There ain't no sequence. It's a revolver string. Two revolvers loaded five rounds each....total of ten rounds. That's the sequence, ten rounds. I suppose there's somebody out there still writing stages "With the left pistol shoot two rounds at P1, one at P2 then 2 at P3. Holster. With the right pistol" and in that case, given the scenario in the OP I guess that would be a P...by the stage description but who writes stages like that?!?? Holstering with live rounds....geez..As long as its not under the hammer, its ok. Holstering with the intent....That be a GUNFIGHTER rule, for the exclusive use/abuse/entertainment of GUNFIGHTERS. Doesn't apply in the OP. However I'll call attention to one part of that rule "...Unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time..." It STILL wouldn't apply. I used to keep a copy of the rule books in a nice little binder in the cart but I stopped doing that. I have one of them fangled android phones and it has a nice big and bright screen that even a blind old geezer like me can read in the sunlight. The search function is yer friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 LOL....I love just answering the OP and THEN checking out all the answers. Usually I just let it go but....wow. Revolvers shot "out of sequence". There ain't no sequence. It's a revolver string. Two revolvers loaded five rounds each....total of ten rounds. That's the sequence, ten rounds. I suppose there's somebody out there still writing stages "With the left pistol shoot two rounds at P1, one at P2 then 2 at P3. Holster. With the right pistol" and in that case, given the scenario in the OP I guess that would be a P...by the stage description but who writes stages like that?!?? Holstering with live rounds....geez..As long as its not under the hammer, its ok. Holstering with the intent....That be a GUNFIGHTER rule, for the exclusive use/abuse/entertainment of GUNFIGHTERS. Doesn't apply in the OP. However I'll call attention to one part of that rule "...Unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time..." It STILL wouldn't apply. I used to keep a copy of the rule books in a nice little binder in the cart but I stopped doing that. I have one of them fangled android phones and it has a nice big and bright screen that even a blind old geezer like me can read in the sunlight. The search function is yer friend! That would make it left hand friendly. LOL and that can not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Perfectly legal to fire one shot from first pistol and holster. Draw second pistol fire one round and holster. Continue to switch guns between shots for the next 8 shots. With no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 As written one miss for unfired round and a P for not placing four shots on the center target. As shot, no call. Just jerking the chain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Sorry to have applied anything to it.Want happen again. Unfortunately for us gunfighters, we are the only category not permitted to holster with the ability to redraw and shoot again. My understanding was that there used to be a fear that gunfighters might get confused and holster a cocked pistol with a live round under the hammer. May never get this changed, but it would eliminate the ability of stage writers to force us to shoot double duelist. OP- Palewolf got it right this time (lucky guess ) CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke2 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Not on the wire enough so not exactly sure if where this question should be asked! Should be an easy answer for the cowpoke with the right knowledge! I thanks you in advance! Can someone reply with a definitive answer as to whether there is a SASS RULE as to how you can disable a tang safety on a Stoeger Coach Gun. The two options that I am interested in are the disabling to make it a "manual safety" and "totally disabling" so that it cannot work. I am aware of all of the moral issues and potential legal ramifications of changing the way the manufacture's intended design, but at this point, just looking to satisfy SASS. Regards and thanks, Zeke SASS 89367 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Okay so there's a problem with a GF putting guns back in holsters with hammers on spent cases, but not a two handed category doing the same thing? What the reasoning behind this? To make gunfighters shoot duelist sometimes? Thanks for the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Not on the wire enough so not exactly sure if where this question should be asked! Should be an easy answer for the cowpoke with the right knowledge! I thanks you in advance! Can someone reply with a definitive answer as to whether there is a SASS RULE as to how you can disable a tang safety on a Stoeger Coach Gun. The two options that I am interested in are the disabling to make it a "manual safety" and "totally disabling" so that it cannot work. I am aware of all of the moral issues and potential legal ramifications of changing the way the manufacture's intended design, but at this point, just looking to satisfy SASS. Regards and thanks, Zeke SASS 89367 Zeke, Almost every shooter that I am aware of disables the Automatic Safety by shortening the rod that pushes it on when opening the gun. Thus leaving it MANUALLY functional. This complies with the "No external modifications" rule. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke2 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Zeke, Almost every shooter that I am aware of disables the Automatic Safety by shortening the rod that pushes it on when opening the gun. Thus leaving it MANUALLY functional. This complies with the "No external modifications" rule. RBK That is what I have done on mine but the question came up today, is it "SASS Legal" to remove the innards so that is cannot be made to work? The external tang slide would remain in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Okay so there's a problem with a GF putting guns back in holsters with hammers on spent cases, but not a two handed category doing the same thing? What the reasoning behind this? To make gunfighters shoot duelist sometimes? Thanks for the answer. I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer. All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe. In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer. All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe. In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer. All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe. In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen. Thanks Kitty Whisperette. I'll address it with my TGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Please do NOT change this rule. Gunfighters are MUCH more apt to holster a cocked pistol than a two-handed shooter. Why? It's simple, we have more going on in the first place and when we occasionally have to shoot 5 and move you have to remember we are cocking one pistol 3 times and the other twice. Now you say, "There is already a penalty for holstering a cocked gun." Sure there is, but if a gunfighter gets used to doing that and something changes, (e.g. a gun hic-ups) the gunfighter could very easily holster their pistol with it cocked over a live round. JUST SAY NO! There's a reason you don't see gunfighters arguing to get rid of this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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