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Whats the Call


Hurricane Deck 100366

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Stage instructions:

 

Pistol 10 holstered, rifle 10 on box, shotgun 4+ on crate.

 

Order is pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun.

 

Line is: "I was gonna kill ya anyway..."

 

At the beep, engage the three pistol targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep then re-holster. Move to box and engage three rifle targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep, make safe. move to shotgun and engage 4 targets.

 

-- those are the stage instructions in their entirety ---

 

first shooter (shooting in a two-handed category) steps up to the line and at the beep draws his LEFT pistol, puts three rounds on the left target, puts ONE round on the middle target. With the hammer down on a spent case, the shooter re-holsters the LEFT pistol. As he re-holsters the left pistol, the TO tells the shooter "One more! you have one more in that gun!" - by the time the TO's words register with the shooter, he has finished re-holstering the LEFT pistol and drawn and cocked the RIGHT pistol. He then shoots the RIGHT pistol once on the middle target. With the hammer down on the spent case, he re-holsters the RIGHT pistol, draws the LEFT pistol and expends the one last shot on the middle target. He then re-holsters, draws the right pistol, shoots the middle target once and the right target 3 times and continues on in the course of fire using the correct pattern and hitting all targets and KD's

 

What, penalties, if any, do you see?

 

 

 

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None. "... I'se jes' practicin' my pistol transistions..."

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A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it.

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A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it.

 

Please cite the rule that states this.

 

BTW - NO CALL on the OP

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A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it.

 

Cite a rule for that (common misconception), please.

 

Because the rule that applies here is:

 

 

11. Safe conditions of firearms during a course of fire are as follows:

Revolver(s)

 

Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand.

 

Hammer fully down on an empty chamber, Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition).

From page 16, RO I handbook. Bold added, to show what the shooter did by holstering with hammer down on an expended round.

 

Oops, as usual, PWB is pretty hard to beat to the citation.

 

Thanks, GJ

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...besides being in violation of the rule re: two LOADED revolvers out of leather at the same time would earn the shooter in the OP a Procedural.

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I was just reading the Gunfighter rule.I know I can't re holster my pistols with live rounds it them.

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No penalty as shot. But I would have shot three in center with right gun, two on right target, holstered and draw left pitol for one shot on right to finish.

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I knew he was not a GF.

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I was just reading the Gunfighter rule.I know I can't re holster my pistols with live rounds it them.

As I read it, the GF'er may holster a gun with live rounds in it, What he cannot do,is then draw that pistol a second time. Otherwise why have the 3rd sentence?

 

SHB pg 14:

A Gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds must be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred. Inadvertently leaving unfired rounds in a revolver is a miss unless the round is under the hammer, then it is a Stage Disqualification.

Emphasis added

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Sorry to have applied anything to it.Want happen again.

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No penalty as shot. But I would have shot three in center with right gun, two on right target, holstered and draw left pitol for one shot on right to finish.

Yep, woulda been a little faster and less gun handling. :)

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It was a no call. The shooter shot the stage clean. First time I've seen it happen, I thought he handled it very well. That would have flustered me something good!

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A shooter my not reholster a pistol with unfired rounds in it,he could have staged the pistol and come back to it but could not reholster it with live rounds in it.

I can not find that anywhere in the rule book. When you finish at the loading table you have unfired rounds in your pistols. Shooter can show up at the unloading table with unfired rounds in his pistols and get no penalties except misses for the unfired rounds. All this assumes the hammers are down on either an fired round or a empty hole in the cylinder. Happens all the time, cylinder freezes after first shot, shooter pulls trigger and holsters gun, with hammer down, misses counted at unloading table.

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Stage instructions:

 

Pistol 10 holstered, rifle 10 on box, shotgun 4+ on crate.

 

Order is pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun.

 

Line is: "I was gonna kill ya anyway..."

 

At the beep, engage the three pistol targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep then re-holster. Move to box and engage three rifle targets in a 3 - 4 - 3 sweep, make safe. move to shotgun and engage 4 targets.

 

-- those are the stage instructions in their entirety ---

 

first shooter (shooting in a two-handed category) steps up to the line and at the beep draws his LEFT pistol, puts three rounds on the left target, puts ONE round on the middle target. With the hammer down on a spent case, the shooter re-holsters the LEFT pistol. As he re-holsters the left pistol, the TO tells the shooter "One more! you have one more in that gun!" - by the time the TO's words register with the shooter, he has finished re-holstering the LEFT pistol and drawn and cocked the RIGHT pistol. He then shoots the RIGHT pistol once on the middle target. With the hammer down on the spent case, he re-holsters the RIGHT pistol, draws the LEFT pistol and expends the one last shot on the middle target. He then re-holsters, draws the right pistol, shoots the middle target once and the right target 3 times and continues on in the course of fire using the correct pattern and hitting all targets and KD's

 

What, penalties, if any, do you see?

 

 

 

None. Good pistol work. Next shooter !!

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LOL....I love just answering the OP and THEN checking out all the answers. Usually I just let it go but....wow.

 

Revolvers shot "out of sequence". There ain't no sequence. It's a revolver string. Two revolvers loaded five rounds each....total of ten rounds. That's the sequence, ten rounds. I suppose there's somebody out there still writing stages "With the left pistol shoot two rounds at P1, one at P2 then 2 at P3. Holster. With the right pistol" and in that case, given the scenario in the OP I guess that would be a P...by the stage description but who writes stages like that?!?? :blink:

 

Holstering with live rounds....geez..As long as its not under the hammer, its ok. <_<

 

Holstering with the intent....That be a GUNFIGHTER rule, for the exclusive use/abuse/entertainment of GUNFIGHTERS. Doesn't apply in the OP. However I'll call attention to one part of that rule "...Unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time..." It STILL wouldn't apply.

 

I used to keep a copy of the rule books in a nice little binder in the cart but I stopped doing that. I have one of them fangled android phones and it has a nice big and bright screen that even a blind old geezer like me can read in the sunlight. The search function is yer friend!

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LOL....I love just answering the OP and THEN checking out all the answers. Usually I just let it go but....wow.

 

Revolvers shot "out of sequence". There ain't no sequence. It's a revolver string. Two revolvers loaded five rounds each....total of ten rounds. That's the sequence, ten rounds. I suppose there's somebody out there still writing stages "With the left pistol shoot two rounds at P1, one at P2 then 2 at P3. Holster. With the right pistol" and in that case, given the scenario in the OP I guess that would be a P...by the stage description but who writes stages like that?!?? :blink:

 

Holstering with live rounds....geez..As long as its not under the hammer, its ok. <_<

 

Holstering with the intent....That be a GUNFIGHTER rule, for the exclusive use/abuse/entertainment of GUNFIGHTERS. Doesn't apply in the OP. However I'll call attention to one part of that rule "...Unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time..." It STILL wouldn't apply.

 

I used to keep a copy of the rule books in a nice little binder in the cart but I stopped doing that. I have one of them fangled android phones and it has a nice big and bright screen that even a blind old geezer like me can read in the sunlight. The search function is yer friend!

That would make it left hand friendly. LOL and that can not be. :lol:

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Sorry to have applied anything to it.Want happen again.

Unfortunately for us gunfighters, we are the only category not permitted to holster with the ability to redraw and shoot again. My understanding was that there used to be a fear that gunfighters might get confused and holster a cocked pistol with a live round under the hammer. May never get this changed, but it would eliminate the ability of stage writers to force us to shoot double duelist.

 

OP- Palewolf got it right this time ;) (lucky guess :P )

 

CR

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Not on the wire enough so not exactly sure if where this question should be asked! Should be an easy answer for the cowpoke with the right knowledge! I thanks you in advance!

 

Can someone reply with a definitive answer as to whether there is a SASS RULE as to how you can disable a tang safety on a Stoeger Coach Gun. The two options that I am interested in are the disabling to make it a "manual safety" and "totally disabling" so that it cannot work. I am aware of all of the moral issues and potential legal ramifications of changing the way the manufacture's intended design, but at this point, just looking to satisfy SASS.

 

Regards and thanks,

Zeke SASS 89367

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Okay so there's a problem with a GF putting guns back in holsters with hammers on spent cases, but not a two handed category doing the same thing? What the reasoning behind this? To make gunfighters shoot duelist sometimes?

Thanks for the answer.

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Not on the wire enough so not exactly sure if where this question should be asked! Should be an easy answer for the cowpoke with the right knowledge! I thanks you in advance!

 

Can someone reply with a definitive answer as to whether there is a SASS RULE as to how you can disable a tang safety on a Stoeger Coach Gun. The two options that I am interested in are the disabling to make it a "manual safety" and "totally disabling" so that it cannot work. I am aware of all of the moral issues and potential legal ramifications of changing the way the manufacture's intended design, but at this point, just looking to satisfy SASS.

 

Regards and thanks,

Zeke SASS 89367

 

Zeke,

Almost every shooter that I am aware of disables the Automatic Safety by shortening the rod that pushes it on when opening the gun. Thus leaving it MANUALLY functional. This complies with the "No external modifications" rule.

 

RBK

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Zeke,

Almost every shooter that I am aware of disables the Automatic Safety by shortening the rod that pushes it on when opening the gun. Thus leaving it MANUALLY functional. This complies with the "No external modifications" rule.

 

RBK

 

That is what I have done on mine but the question came up today, is it "SASS Legal" to remove the innards so that is cannot be made to work? The external tang slide would remain in place.

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Okay so there's a problem with a GF putting guns back in holsters with hammers on spent cases, but not a two handed category doing the same thing? What the reasoning behind this? To make gunfighters shoot duelist sometimes?

Thanks for the answer.

I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer.

 

All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe.

 

In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen.

 

:ph34r:

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I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer.

 

All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe.

 

In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen.

 

:ph34r:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

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I didn't get it either and asked about it many moons ago. The experienced GFs spoke the most stridently against the practice. Maybe some of them will answer.

 

All I remember was they were worried about holstering a cocked gun. Seems to me there is already a penalty for that and this prohibition is a bit like the old rule (now deleted) about picking up dropped rounds. The majority decided the penalty for breaking the 170 or having a pistol fall out of the holster was sufficient and we didn't need to penalize something that wasn't inherently unsafe.

 

In this case we are trying to prevent something (holstering a cocked gun) that might not happen.

 

:ph34r:

Thanks Kitty Whisperette. I'll address it with my TGs.

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Please do NOT change this rule. Gunfighters are MUCH more apt to holster a cocked pistol than a two-handed shooter. Why? It's simple, we have more going on in the first place and when we occasionally have to shoot 5 and move you have to remember we are cocking one pistol 3 times and the other twice.

 

Now you say, "There is already a penalty for holstering a cocked gun." Sure there is, but if a gunfighter gets used to doing that and something changes, (e.g. a gun hic-ups) the gunfighter could very easily holster their pistol with it cocked over a live round.

 

JUST SAY NO! There's a reason you don't see gunfighters arguing to get rid of this rule.

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