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SASS Membership Fees


Misty Moonshine

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The 7568 lifers aren't the problem. They were a big help in starting and supporting SASS. The biggest problem is the free loaders that shoots cowboy but don't belong to SASS. While I realize there are many volunteers that keep the local cowboy shoot going it's ALL still based off of SASS. Nether will go far without the other. Imagine if everyone who owned a gun belonged to the NRA or some other ORG. that fought for our gun rights. But NO , they don't feel they get enough for their money so it puts the burden of many on the few that aren't so self centered.

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This was the same solution I mentioned earlier as a better way to try to remedy the situation. Under the current plan, 19,687 people (the yearly subscribers) are being asked to shoulder the entire burden while the 7,568 lifers (a lot, but not all of whom think this is a great plan) dont see any increase in cost. I would have no problem paying a few dollars more each shoot if it was spread more fairly. With the new price increase, you are far more likely to see new shooters run off.

 

Agreed, for some reason missed your suggestion earlier.

 

For the lifers this would be the same as being a member of a country club yet still paying a nominal greens fee every time they play. I played a LOT of golf in the 90's and 2000's, both clubs I was a member of charged a $1 per day for the members to play.

 

 

I'd STRONGLY encourage SASS management to consider this idea. $1 per shooter at SASS affiliated matches is not going to hurt anyone.

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The 7568 lifers aren't the problem. They were a big help in starting and supporting SASS. The biggest problem is the free loaders that shoots cowboy but don't belong to SASS. While I realize there are many volunteers that keep the local cowboy shoot going it's ALL still based off of SASS. Nether will go far without the other. Imagine if everyone who owned a gun belonged to the NRA or some other ORG. that fought for our gun rights. But NO , they don't feel they get enough for their money so it puts the burden of many on the few that aren't so self centered.

I apologise if you took it as I meant the lifers are the problem, they are not. I was pointing out that it a flawed system when you (with no MEMBER input) choose to make 19,000 people pay more and 7000 people dont see any increase. A more fair way to evenly distribute the cost increase would be to charge a little at monthly matches. That way everyone pays a little more INCLUDING the non sass members.

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I apologise if you took it as I meant the lifers are the problem, they are not. I was pointing out that it a flawed system when you (with no MEMBER input) choose to make 19,000 people pay more and 7000 people dont see any increase. A more fair way to evenly distribute the cost increase would be to charge a little at monthly matches. That way everyone pays a little more INCLUDING the non sass members.

 

A compromise here would be EVERYONE pays $1 to SASS to shoot EXCEPT life members.

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Yeah, starting to charge life members a monthly fee is going to go over really big!

 

When local clubs see their memberships dwindling because of this, I'll bet you'll start seeing local clubs resigning from SASS in a hurry! They are trying to appeal to new shooters not run them off!

I am a life member and I know I got a sweet deal. Paid $400.00 back in 2000 for life membership, I don't mind paying an additional dollar if it helps with new members and more participation. Around here some clubs charge $10.00. some $12.00, and another $15.00. It's not a big deal when it's spread out over a year of shooting and then we would all be paying fairly instead of placing all the burden upon annual members. Considering some folks only shoot a few matches a year and others shoot many shoots a year it would be the fairest solution.

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Probably a lot! Enforcability is the issue... we choose to operate by a code built on integrity, honesty and respect.... there is nothing we can do about the folks who make the choice to misrepresent themselves in this way.

 

Matter of fact, nearly every year at events we have SASS badges turned in to lost and found that fell off someone... when we look them up to see who they belong to, its an inactive membership. It is disheartening.

 

Misty

Unfortunately, while you choose to operate under your code, a lot of the deadbeats operate under theirs. So much for the "cowboy way".

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We have not met or shot yet at our club. This weekend will be our match and I suspect these fees will be a topic of discussion. Very early reports indicate that some may not renew because of the price. (I've gotten emails) I won't judge either way on someone else's choice on that. I can say how it will affect our club. Currently all of our shooters are SASS members. We do not require membership to shoot either. If some choose not to renew, it will cost our club, at the most $50/year. However, if these same people renewed SASS would receive much more than $50. I just wanted to put this little fact out there.

 

I know that as a club, we will have a good discussion and this will come up.

 

Thank you.

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I like the idea that EVERONE contributes to SASS survival by paying an extra $1 per shoot.

 

I plan on signing up for a Life membership probably next spring. Hopefully I live long enough in good enough health to realize the return on that investment. After that I would gladly contribute $1-$2 per shoot to keep SASS alive.

 

Having EVERYONE, including those that are NOT SASS members contribute is most fair in my mind.

 

I still contend that these implemented increases and fees and the reasons for them, should have been communicated BEFORE they were implemented.

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The 7568 lifers aren't the problem. They were a big help in starting and supporting SASS. The biggest problem is the free loaders that shoots cowboy but don't belong to SASS. While I realize there are many volunteers that keep the local cowboy shoot going it's ALL still based off of SASS. Nether will go far without the other. Imagine if everyone who owned a gun belonged to the NRA or some other ORG. that fought for our gun rights. But NO , they don't feel they get enough for their money so it puts the burden of many on the few that aren't so self centered.

Wow, pretty bold assertion there! So, according to you, every person who wants to go cowboy shooting with his friends once a month must belong to an organization that has nothing to do with him whatsoever else he is branded a free loader........ REALLY, is this your "cowboy way" of thinking? I go shooting with my friends and don't consider them anything but friends regardless of what clubs or societies they belong to.

 

As far as being based on SASS, I think it more of being based on "cowboy action shooting" not some society which is nothing more than a business venture.

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I still contend that these implemented increases and fees and the reasons for them, should have been communicated BEFORE they were implemented.

 

That is beating a dead horse and isn't conducive to the progress of the situation/discussion at this point.

 

Again- The rate increase for renewals doesn't go into effect until the November renewals! Members are being given over 2 months notice. (the November folks, that is)

 

Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have changed the prices on the website until we were ready to post the information...

 

I have agreed, I have apologized, and I am working to make it right. All SASS HQ staff has been re-educated, and refunds are being processed.

 

I'm not sure what else I can do...

 

Misty

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That is beating a dead horse and isn't conducive to the progress of the situation/discussion at this point.

 

Again- The rate increase for renewals doesn't go into effect until the November renewals! Members are being given over 2 months notice. (the November folks, that is)

 

Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have changed the prices on the website until we were ready to post the information...

 

I have agreed, I have apologized, and I am working to make it right. All SASS HQ staff has been re-educated, and refunds are being processed.

 

I'm not sure what else I can do...

 

Misty

 

Just keep doing your best, which is a whole lot better than most of us could do. Hang in there and we'll all get this organization on the right track together and keep it there.

 

Thank you!

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That is beating a dead horse and isn't conducive to the progress of the situation/discussion at this point.

 

Again- The rate increase for renewals doesn't go into effect until the November renewals! Members are being given over 2 months notice. (the November folks, that is)

 

Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have changed the prices on the website until we were ready to post the information...

 

I have agreed, I have apologized, and I am working to make it right. All SASS HQ staff has been re-educated, and refunds are being processed.

 

I'm not sure what else I can do...

 

Misty

You're doing fine. Problems aren't the issue; it's how you handle them that counts.

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Wow, pretty bold assertion there! So, according to you, every person who wants to go cowboy shooting with his friends once a month must belong to an organization that has nothing to do with him whatsoever else he is branded a free loader........ REALLY, is this your "cowboy way" of thinking? I go shooting with my friends and don't consider them anything but friends regardless of what clubs or societies they belong to.

 

As far as being based on SASS, I think it more of being based on "cowboy action shooting" not some society which is nothing more than a business venture.

A business venture that keeps us all on the same page. No easy task. It is a business that keeps this ball rolling and many people pay to help them succeed. And there are countless volunteers that help with running this business directly. So if your not part of the workings but getting benefits from it ( shooting at any club that uses SASS rules )then by most accounts you are a free loader. Some of the people I shoot with may very well belong in this category. I wouldn't know because I just assume everybody is a member. All my life I have watched the few carry the load of many. I've never once wanted to join the many. I don't feel right taking if I haven't given. YMMV. Good Luck. MW
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I sell widgets.

 

Made some good money selling them too. Customer base increase beyond my expectations.

 

Business was so good I went International.

 

Then I hired the wrong Business Manger which in turn drove some loyal customers away.

 

Laid off a bunch of my employees.

 

Revenue stream took a hit when I moved to what I thought would be a better location.

 

Tried different types of Advertising and special promotions with negative results.

 

Made a excellent descion by hiring a well qualified and motivated Employee to try to return my business to profitability.

 

Eliminated the expense of the monthly newsletter and trimed overhead.

 

Will raising the price of my widgets by 44% and charging my Dealers a fee return my business model to profitability or is the problem that there is no longer a demand for my widgets?

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A business venture that keeps us all on the same page. No easy task. It is a business that keeps this ball rolling and many people pay to help them succeed. And there are countless volunteers that help with running this business directly. So if your not part of the workings but getting benefits from it ( shooting at any club that uses SASS rules )then by most accounts you are a free loader. Some of the people I shoot with may very well belong in this category. I wouldn't know because I just assume everybody is a member. All my life I have watched the few carry the load of many. I've never once wanted to join the many. I don't feel right taking if I haven't given. YMMV. Good Luck. MW

Well, since my SASS membership join date is March 16 of this year, I guess I can't be considered a freeloader just yet. Watch how you use the word YOU, someone might feel you are directing your post to them rather than talking in general terms.

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Are there supposed to be figures posted in the first post...I see the expense, but no $$ associated with it.

 

I need to know two things......Are EOT and the Conference self sustained? If not, how much is the club contributing to each.

 

I find it strange that I belong to a number of "clubs" that offer a much better "magazine" (some monthly and some Bi-Monthly) and other benefits and don't cost anywhere near what is proposed. And ALL these clubs have far fewer members.......

 

I recently advertised for a number of months in the Chronicle with absolutely zero response. Granted it was only a $48 per month ad for my reloading strips. I hear time and time again that folks are not reading the digital version. So what do we do, bring it back in hard form, but cut it back by 8 copies a year and go quarterly. I have to believe with such infrequent publication, it will have an extreme negative effect on advertising.

 

Will I pay the increase...You bet your bippy! Although I've only been a member for a couple of years, I have enjoyed myself immensely! I've never met a better group of folks...NEVER!

 

I hope we can figure this out and keep moving in a positive direction.......

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Well, let me weigh in on this, if I may.

 

SASS shooters are the most generous lot that I have ever been associated with, and if the problem had been brought to the members in a cordial and humble way, I'm sure there would have been enough charitable contributions come in to help in alleviating the financial problem.

 

It may not be too late to make a plea to the faithful.

 

WR

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The revenue solution would seem to be attracting more members to SASS rather than just raising the membership fees of the current membership base. I enjoy SASS and will likely renew my membership even at the higher rate. I would point out that when I go to a local monthly match, I see a lot of gray hair. If we are going to see the sport grow and be viable in the coming years we have got to get some new blood in the ranks. I am concerned that a high membership fee will discourage younger members from joining. By the way, I have considered becoming a Life Member but given the financial uncertainty of SASS and my age, I think I will wait and see.

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BTW...With a 44% increase, if 44% of the members drop out, the net gain in revenue will be zero. If 22% of the members do not re-up, the increase in revenue will be 50% of expectations, if the expectations are for 100% of current members to renew. I sure hope the powers that be did this analysis or some type of survey to assess the impact of a 44% dues increase.....

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Well, since my SASS membership join date is March 16 of this year, I guess I can't be considered a freeloader just yet. Watch how you use the word YOU, someone might feel you are directing your post to them rather than talking in general terms.

I don't know YOU. If someone takes a post of mine personally they ether fit the profile or their skin is a touch thin. Ether way it's not much I can do about it. Like I said there are plenty of freeloaders in this world and I am friends with a few. MW

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Misty, you couldn't pay me enough to put up with the job you are trying to do. But the REAL reason you are in this situation is that the "POWERS TO BE" (Wild Bunch) have made such a mess of the finances of SASS over the years that it may not be able to be saved financially. Nobody in their right mind would have bought the property in NM, with all the associated restrictions on it, if they had seriously checked it out. WOW, their was a buffalo walking around on the property, let's buy it. EOT went from approximately, according to folks who worked EOT, 25,000 spectators the week of EOT when in CA. to around 1,000 in NM. No wonder vendors quit coming to EOT. Las Vegas area would have been perfect because the CA. spectators would still have come and paid to get in because Las Vegas is fun, then you would have vendors coming because they would be making money and paying to be vendors. More shooters would be shooting EOT because Las Vegas is a lot better than Edgewood, NM.

Let's face facts, the Wild Bunch has made some really bad financial mistakes over the years. As you can tell by my SASS #7728 I have been an active member since 1995 and shoot around 4 club matches a month. I got into the sport because of the people I met and the fun CAS was. I really have hated to see what has been happening to SASS since they bought "Flounders Ranch". Good luck to you in trying to save SASS.

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Why not just charge each sanctioned club $1.00 per shooter for a monthly match fee? Then you can get money from non-SASS shooters, Life members and current annual members without raising annual fees. I fear we will lose members with the increase. Most shooters I know probably shoot around 20 matches a year, which should more than offset the increase in dues. Some clubs would just absorb the fee and pay it, others would just charge an extra dollar.

 

Assassin

 

Seems simple enough...

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Seems simple enough...

Just to step into my Match Directors hat for a second.....

 

At my monthly shoots..... According to your simple plan....

I now have to choose to 1 - Keep my fees the same and take the dollar out of the fees I am already charging or 2 - Charge a surcharge of $1.00 to every shooter or 3 - Increase my fees to cover the expenses I have to send to SASS.

After the shoot I have to total the number of shooters and send in a report to SASS along with the fees collected.

I have to create another line in my expenses report for this fee.

I won't even begin to mention the "sniveling" I will get if I choose option 2 or 3. None of which I am being paid to listen to.

If I choose option #1 then I will have to delay or forgo improvements I may have in mind. This assumes that I am operating in the black in the first place.

 

As a Match Director I set up targets and work so I can see smiles on friends faces. I don't like doing things that don't take me to that goal.

Collecting money for someone else is not going to make me happy.

 

Removing hat.

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I am amazed at some of the comments made on this thread... and the other one. Some of the writers seem to think that they should be consulted about business decisions made by the BOD of SASS. Geeze guys it is a business, and has been for a long time. No doubt in my mind that if it had been run like a business all of those years it would be in better shape than it now is, but that's water under the bridge. IMO, SASS is doing what they have to do, and they don't need your permission to do it. Yes, they do need the support of the membership if they are to continue. The lack of loyalty by some, over what amounts to Coffee money is sad. Nope... I sure as hell have not agreed with many of the things that SASS has done in the past, but I haven't thrown them under the wagon for it. Buck up, and "Ride for the Brand" or get the hell out.

 

Snakebite

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I am amazed at some of the comments made on this thread... and the other one. Some of the writers seem to think that they should be consulted about business decisions made by the BOD of SASS. Geeze guys it is a business, and has been for a long time. No doubt in my mind that if it had been run like a business all of those years it would be in better shape than it now is, but that's water under the bridge. IMO, SASS is doing what they have to do, and they don't need your permission to do it. Yes, they do need the support of the membership if they are to continue. The lack of loyalty by some, over what amounts to Coffee money is sad. Nope... I sure as hell have not agreed with many of the things that SASS has done in the past, but I haven't thrown them under the wagon for it. Buck up, and "Ride for the Brand", of get the hell out.

 

Snakebite

+1

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Good point, I know of two right now and NO I'm not a fink! :D

 

This is one reason for the increase. People are amazing they are willing to let other people skip the rules and then holler when it comes to bite them. I assume this is some part of the cowboy way I hear talked about.

 

 

Misty,

 

Thanks for all you do.

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" SASS continues to produce END of TRAIL, The World Championship of Cowboy Action Shooting and it is still our flagship event, taking place every June at Founders Ranch, New Mexico. END of TRAIL, the granddaddy of all Cowboy Action Shooting events regularly hosts over 1600 competitors and conventioneers with more than $250,000 in sponsorship support. On average some 25,000 spectators and participants attend the annual event."

 

I just copied this from the web site,I understand that this is a business and that marketing is an important part of that. That doesn't change the fact that if you are in Podunk and shoot at the local cowboy club once a month. Then you get a letter from headquarters saying "we're going to need some more money" the above can leave you a bit put off by the request. The site also says 97,000 members? Now it seems it's more like 25,000 and not all of them pay. This is the sort of thing that puts your customers off a bit.

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SASS is paying for some poor decisions of the past.

Should have just dumped FR as soon as they found out

they bought a pig in a poke. Instead of dumping more into it.

BUT. They did.

The Lady at the helm now did not have anything to do with it.

She is just trying her best to right the ship. Maybe not always

done in the best way. As with this not putting out info first.

But doing the best she can. I am sure it is not easy. What with the old

guard still there and might be stuck in old way. And having to come to

reality of what is.

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That is beating a dead horse and isn't conducive to the progress of the situation/discussion at this point.

 

Again- The rate increase for renewals doesn't go into effect until the November renewals! Members are being given over 2 months notice. (the November folks, that is)

 

Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have changed the prices on the website until we were ready to post the information...

 

I have agreed, I have apologized, and I am working to make it right. All SASS HQ staff has been re-educated, and refunds are being processed.

 

I'm not sure what else I can do...

 

Misty

Thank you Misty. I really do appreciate what you are doing in trying to right the ship.

 

I will gladly put the dead horse beating to rest.

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Almost 68K Inactive members. WOW! I'm sure that some of them became Inactive due to the owner's passing, and those alias's should just be retired. But those that have simply not been renewed should be dropped off the books and be made available for re-issued after some reasonable amount of time after notice is given to the original holder. Many of these Inactive alias's might well be coveted. Currently registered SASS Alias's always Trump at any SASS affiliated club.

 

Snakebite

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A business venture that keeps us all on the same page. No easy task. It is a business that keeps this ball rolling and many people pay to help them succeed. And there are countless volunteers that help with running this business directly. So if your not part of the workings but getting benefits from it ( shooting at any club that uses SASS rules )then by most accounts you are a free loader. Some of the people I shoot with may very well belong in this category. I wouldn't know because I just assume everybody is a member. All my life I have watched the few carry the load of many. I've never once wanted to join the many. I don't feel right taking if I haven't given. YMMV. Good Luck. MW

 

I pay an annual fee, my wife does not. We don't shoot anything other than local matches. She works every set up and clean up day she can, helps with after the shoot tear down, purchases food and drinks for the side match lunch and runs the lunch table for the annual match, is in charge of lunches for the annual, and bakes cakes for Sunday dessert at the annual, and works tear down after the annual long after most of the others have left. I don't think you could find anyone you knows her that would consider her a free-loader.

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Almost 68K Inactive members. WOW! I'm sure that some of them became Inactive due to the owner's passing, and those alias's should just be retired. But those that have simply not been renewed should be dropped off the books and be made available for re-issued after some reasonable amount of time after notice is given to the original holder. Many of these Inactive alias's might well be coveted. Currently registered SASS Alias's always Trump at any SASS affiliated club.

 

Snakebite

 

Actually, I believe they are made available after a certain period of time.

 

OLG experienced this first hand last year when a new shooter registered his old moniker "Lumpy Gritz" and he had to go to "The Original Lumpy Gritz" (z or s, I don't remember)

 

I'm not happy about the large increase, but I will most likely end up paying it. My family has too much money invested in the accouterments that are needed to participate to not pay it. My family enjoys shooting big matches and the rules state you must be a member in good standing to participate. Do I think anyone would check my member status (or that of my 14 year old)? nope. Does that change the rule? nope.

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Actually, I believe they are made available after a certain period of time.

 

OLG experienced this first hand last year when a new shooter registered his old moniker "Lumpy Gritz" and he had to go to "The Original Lumpy Gritz" (z or s, I don't remember)

 

I'm not happy about the large increase, but I will most likely end up paying it. My family has too much money invested in the accouterments that are needed to participate to not pay it. My family enjoys shooting big matches and the rules state you must be a member in good standing to participate. Do I think anyone would check my member status (or that of my 14 year old)? nope. Does that change the rule? nope.

Thanks for that information..... I just was not aware that old alias's were being reissued. This game has dominated my life for about 25 yrs. Most folks spend at least some money for entertainment purposes, and I am no different. This current increase amounts to less than the price of a meal at any restaurant other than some Fast Food stops. I've paid my wife's dues for over 20 years, and she has never even shot one match. We have invested many thousands of dollars in not only equipment, but also in endeavors that were primarily directed to support and promote SASS. Geeze, if you count the RVs that we bought to go to matches, it really runs into money. It does seem a little strange that so many people have invested so much of their own money and time funding a Privately owned organization which has as one of it's major goals to provide income for a few souls. Why in the world would folks do such a thing? I'm a charitable guy, but not that charitable. So there must be some good reason that I and many others have chosen to continue with our support. For me, that reason is that their organization has provided me with these many years of full time enjoyment, and I'll admit, some real PIA times too. But that, in itself, is reason enough to stay the course for the time being and see how this all plays out. No doubt that things are changing, and will change even more in the future. But at this point, there are a couple of things that we all need to remember. First is that we NOW have a Course.... we have been steaming in a circle for a good while now. Second is the FACT that the game of Cowboy Action Shooting belongs to us, those who participate. I don't care what anyone says, the game can not be taken away by anyone. It will continue to be played as long as there are folks who want to play it. If we support our neighboring clubs, as we should, there will always be some where to go "Shoot a Match". If SASS grows in strength again, then all the better it will be for us who play the game.

 

Snakebite

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I can understand the reasoning behind some folks not being able to afford it, due to increasing health costs etc. If someone honestly wants to remain a member, and honestly can't afford the extra 20, shoot me a PM. All I have to do is give 15 20oz Diet Cokes a year, and I don't need the Diet Cokes anyway.

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Guest Grass Range #51406

Dropping the paper Chronicle was a good idea. Reading long articles about the weather at some shoot was meaningless. And whoever ( I forget the name) wrote the every issue spiel on gun ownership, etc. was not worth reading because the same is in every gun publication. I guess if you won a match it is good to see your name printed but the paperless version puts out the same info. Raising the dues to stay in business is OK by me. I do enjoy reading the Wire and the Saloon and the Classifieds although this bickering about who and why someone gets a DQ or whatever is tiring.

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