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SASS Membership Fees


Misty Moonshine

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This is one reason for the increase. People are amazing they are willing to let other people skip the rules and then holler when it comes to bite them. I assume this is some part of the cowboy way I hear talked about.

 

 

Misty,

 

Thanks for all you do.

There is no rule that you must be a member of SASS to shoot at local clubs UNLESS certain clubs have that rule. I know of none here in Ohio!

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There is no rule that you must be a member of SASS to shoot at local clubs UNLESS certain clubs have that rule. I know of none here in Ohio!

There is no rule that you must be a member of SASS to shoot at local clubs UNLESS certain clubs have that rule. I know of none here in Ohio!

From what you said and the way you said it. I'm thinking you know a shooter or more who uses their alias and badge number to shoot SASS state or above matches. Am I missing something here?

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From what you said and the way you said it. I'm thinking you know a shooter or more who uses their alias and badge number to shoot SASS state or above matches. Am I missing something here?

Oh no, I misunderstood. I meant I know a few shooters who have let their membership lapse but still shoot in LOCAL MATCHES. I apologize for the misunderstanding. My fault!

 

Rye :blush:

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From what you said and the way you said it. I'm thinking you know a shooter or more who uses their alias and badge number to shoot SASS state or above matches. Am I missing something here?

 

At a State and above match, the Match Director is required to submit a complete listing of all shooters to SASS a few days before the match. SASS then vets the current membership status and sends the Match Director a listing of any who are not current with their membership. If someone is not current, they have the opportunity to become current prior to the match, or they have the option to withdraw from the match. While there is certainly the possibility for abuse of this system, I would like to believe in the honesty of people, especially the Cowboys, so that this doesn't happen. :)

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Agreed, for some reason missed your suggestion earlier.

 

For the lifers this would be the same as being a member of a country club yet still paying a nominal greens fee every time they play. I played a LOT of golf in the 90's and 2000's, both clubs I was a member of charged a $1 per day for the members to play.

 

 

I'd STRONGLY encourage SASS management to consider this idea. $1 per shooter at SASS affiliated matches is not going to hurt anyone.

 

 

Yeah more work for the folks running the local club, nope not going to hurt anyone.

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August 25, 2015

 

To all SASS Members:

SASS Operating Expenses

I have covered income concerns and shared with you the steady decline in SASS membership. Now I would like to outline a sampling of SASS’ Expense listing.

Payroll & Benefits

- Wages & Salary

- Payroll Processing

- Employee Benefits/Health Plan

- Contract Labor

- Payroll Tax

- Workers Compensation

- Employee Education

 

General Expenses

- Insurance

- Property Tax

- Taxes, Licenses & Fees

- Legal & Accounting

- Amortization & Depreciation

- Merchant Services

- Bank Charges

- Association Fees

- Rent

 

Event Expenses

- Site Prep

- Food/Provisions

- Hospitality

- Equipment Rental

- Labor

- Entertainment

- Advertising

- PR/Marketing

Operations Expense

- Computers & Software

- Repairs & Maintenance

- Equipment Rental

- Printing/Art/Film

- Postage, Shipping, and Supplies

- Utilities

- Website Design & Maintenance

- Office Supplies

 

Awards & Prizes

- SASS Stock – pins & badges

- Sanctioning Fulfillment

 

Membership Materials

- Membership cards

- Envelopes

- Decals & Promo items

 

Business Development

- Advertising

- Dues & Subscriptions

- Promotions

- Marketing

- Travel Expenses

 

Club Support

- Club resource materials

- Fulfillment expenses

 

 

As you can see from the outline above, the expenses associated with being in business are significant. SASS has made every effort to reduce expenses wherever possible without compromising the quality of the products and services we provide.

 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Misty Moonshine

Chief Executive Officer

 

I do not see anything of the sort, either in expenses or reductions. No figures are reported so it its impossible to tell what the expenses are or what efforts are being made to reduce them. I Think, in the interest of full disclosure that the "books" should be open to the membership and published (PDF) on the web site so all can see exactly where our money is going.

 

By the way, in my opinion, all the Event expenses, prizes, food, venue, insurance, etc should be covered by the revenue from the Event. If and Event does not at least break even then the Event managers should take a serious look at what they are doing. I have belonged to many organizations in the past who had shows and if they did not MAKE money on a show it was not done again. I even belonged to one club (hoses, very $$ sport) that only charged $10 for membership because they made so much money at the two shows they held each year that they actually had money in the bank, Large sums of money in the bank!

 

I am a one year member of SASS. I am retired, permanently disabled and living on a social security pay check that is 1/4 of what I was making before my forced retirement. I got into this sport with a bit of trepidation because of the expenses associated with it. I have played many "expensive" games in my life and none have given me the pure enjoyment that SASS does and that is why I was hopping to continue. However if I am looking at a huge increase in yearly fees, and possible higher costs in the future, along with the current upward spiral in ammo component cost, I am going to have to seriously reconsider my continued participation in this sport.

 

As many members have pointed out hiking fees (taxes) on the current members (customers) is not the way to make the organization solvent. The only thing it will do is drive away members, and keep new members from joining because of ridiculously high fees. If SASS, unlike our current federal government, can not run within budge, then perhaps we should look at replacing an incompetent board with one that will operate within its limitations and not figure that this is a "rich mans sport" so, if they run a little short, they can just go to the $$$ well and we, the membership, with just cough up another $20. Turning SASS into a NFP organization is not the solution. If the organization can not run under its current leadership what assurances do we have that, just because of a change in tax status, it will change in the future?

 

Concerned Member

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Yeah more work for the folks running the local club, nope not going to hurt anyone.

I run the matches here at my local club most of the time. How much more work would it be to collect another dollar. Oh yes change is more

 

difficult (i think I can handle that) Now at the end of the shoot I need to count to see how many shooters I had, not to hard here as I don't even

 

need to take off my shoes. When I get home I would need to write a check address an envelope put it in the mail box and raise the little red flag. Done

 

As you can see I don't think it would be all that difficult to do this little task. How would it benefit Sass and our local clubs. Every shooter

 

no matter there status ie sass member or not, life members everyone would be contributing to the survival of the organisation. I realize life members

 

have already put out a bunch to get that status. But I belong to a couple of groups that I am a life member and they still ask for further

 

help on a regular basis.NRA for one. As stated earlier there are other shooting organisations that require a fee at all there shoots to be

 

sent in to national. So I see this as the best way to make up for the shortage. It is only a little at a time and would not hurt so much at one time.

 

for those that are on limited income. Just for the record I Love this sport and shoot several matches a year that require SASS membership and

 

I will send what ever they require for me to stay current. I just think the buck per shooter would be a more fair way to do it and would meet the need.

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I run the matches here at my local club most of the time. How much more work would it be to collect another dollar. Oh yes change is more

 

difficult (i think I can handle that) Now at the end of the shoot I need to count to see how many shooters I had, not to hard here as I don't even

 

need to take off my shoes. When I get home I would need to write a check address an envelope put it in the mail box and raise the little red flag. Done

 

As you can see I don't think it would be all that difficult to do this little task. How would it benefit Sass and our local clubs. Every shooter

 

no matter there status ie sass member or not, life members everyone would be contributing to the survival of the organisation. I realize life members

 

have already put out a bunch to get that status. But I belong to a couple of groups that I am a life member and they still ask for further

 

help on a regular basis.NRA for one. As stated earlier there are other shooting organisations that require a fee at all there shoots to be

 

sent in to national. So I see this as the best way to make up for the shortage. It is only a little at a time and would not hurt so much at one time.

 

for those that are on limited income. Just for the record I Love this sport and shoot several matches a year that require SASS membership and

 

I will send what ever they require for me to stay current. I just think the buck per shooter would be a more fair way to do it and would meet the need.

 

 

Sounds like a good plan to me Nem. Instead of hitting members on the front end for $20.00 bucks we would impose a user fee ($1.00) which would probably increase revenues by far. I ran the numbers at our local club and the $1.00 fee would give SASS more revenue than the $20 increase.

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Smokestack-

 

I would welcome all feedback regarding the TG system and your interpretation of it being broken/antiquated. Also, any suggestions regarding improvements would be well received and considered for implementation.

 

Misty

TGs need to be life members which leaves out a lot of folks who might otherwise be interested.

 

TGs meet in person. With existing technology it is possible to have online meetings.

 

Tied to the above, there is no requirement for TGs to actually participate. Virtual meetings would make participation of all TGs possible even if they cannot afford to attend EOT.

 

Some TG agenda items have been beaten to death so badly that the corpse is in full rigor yet they come to life again every year. TGs who do participate must be Zombie shooters as well.

 

Some of the TG agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field for the benefit of a small group. At times these proposals would cost members playing by the current rules money, At times, lots of money.

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Some of the TG agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field for the benefit of a small group. At times these proposals would cost members playing by the current rules money, At times, lots of money.

 

 

bull puckey!!!!

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Some of the TG agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field for the benefit of a small group. At times these proposals would cost members playing by the current rules money, At times, lots of money.

Really,,,just what might these be?

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I and my wife are life members. SASS is about the only shooting sport we can compete in any more, because as i get older I cannot run and jump the way I used too.

 

Setting up is hard, cannot lift steel off the ground, but can drop it when the stage is over. Can work as spotter, timer etc. as long as I watch my back. Feet swell, and have a hard time getting them into (my 700$ custom made ) boots, sneakers are a must most days. No problem if you explain.

I love the people in SASS and have never found one I did not like, (Well, one :wacko: ). No other sport will help a newcomer as much as SASS. Loaning guns to another shooter, unheard of, except in SASS. Short of ammo, no problem, someone will give you some. (If you don't mind reloads and give them the brass back. ;) )

I have read a lot of comments one way or another to raise shoot fees a buck, Not a problem. It costs me $4 in gas to get to the range and I usually stop for a $1.50 cup of coffee and a $3 breakfast sandwich on the way AND pay $10 to shoot when I get there. A BUCK?. This would be the easy, no pain way, for everyone to contribute.

As of me, Tell you what I think, I think all life members should, right now, send in a $20 donation to SASS. This would raise $151,360 and maybe give HQ a little breathing room. (My check for $40 will be in the mail in the morning). Or even get the Chronicle back in publication. (Don't read the online version). Note that I too am retired on a fixed income. (20/30 hrs a month part time job)

Yes, I too would like to see actual numbers as to where the money goes, but right now SASS is a privately held corporation and has no duty to release figures. A different story when it becomes a non profit.

Agree that events that do not make money should be dropped.
If Founders Ranch is in financial trouble and unsustainable, sell it and cut our losses.
AS I see it. Founders Ranch is strictly for those among us that are in the,shall we say, upper income brackets. The shoot fee is insane. If EOT is not self supporting, as one person has stated, rotate it among different clubs.

Have stopped going to major shoots because the $$ for travel, food, lodging, shoot fees and ammo has risen beyond what I can justify more than once a year or so.

Do not want to see SASS die, but from what I see now, it is on life support.

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...

Some TG agenda items have been beaten to death so badly that the corpse is in full rigor yet they come to life again every year. TGs who do participate must be Zombie shooters as well.

Have you considered that there might be a good reason that some of those agenda items are addressed repeatedly until there is finally enough support for them to pass by more than a simple majority?

Does your club TG explain the issues and solicit the vote of your club members?

The other option is for the WB to bypass the "TG system" to mandate necessary rule changes (which has been done in some circumstances) without the required 66% Territorial Governor approval.

 

Some of the TG agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field for the benefit of a small group. At times these proposals would cost members playing by the current rules money, At times, lots of money.

Do you care to elaborate on that statement? Which "small group" stands to benefit from which agenda items?

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Misty-Thank you for all your hard work and the work of your staff.

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Some of the TG agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field for the benefit of a small group. At times these proposals would cost members playing by the current rules money, At times, lots of money.

I certainly believe the TG system is very broken but I totally disagree with your assertion that agenda items are blatant attempts to change the playing field to the benefit of a small group. How have any rule changes by the TGs cost members money?

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I'm just spitballing, but in the long run, SASS is going to have to do a little of reinventing itself. Gone are the days where the only way of finding places to shoot was to look in the back of the Cowboy Chronicle. Now many clubs have a website or some other way of finding them online. Many of the SASS member benefits are only benefit to a small subset of people. If you don't shoot competitively, your reason to be in the organization drops dramatically.

 

It's all well and good to tell people they're helping with the foundation of the sport when they join SASS, but that doesn't mean much to a new shooter. It takes time to learn and appreciate those things that SASS did to standardize things. You don't have that appreciation the first day you join. I know I didn't.

 

People here have been grumbling about renewal fees, but let's look at the first year membership. $75 to join SASS the first time. For a $1 certificate, $2 badge, $1 member card, $1 sticker, and a $2 pin. Everyone has access to the CC online, so that's not a benefit. Is a first-time shooter going to state and regional matches? Unlikely. Is a cowboy name worth $68? Highly subjective answer on that.

 

SASS does a verification on state & up shoots, correct? How many members did at least one State+ match? That's a stat I'd like to see.

 

The expense categories are listed, but what about the income categories?

 

SASS needs to add more value to memberships for new members, especially at $75 a pop. Or streamline operations to reduce costs. Use teleconferences and online meetings instead of traveling. Look at the costs of having an office vs those five SASS employees working from home. Let clubs bid on hosting EOT. Find a cheaper alternative for the CC. Losing $24k a month on it? Yikes. Print the CC in greyscale if you have to. Have it in color online if needed. Or blow that whole thing up and switch to an online website with articles that you sell normal web banner ads for instead of having the CC at all. Advertisers and clubs would be happier, as there's now real metrics for what they're paying for. You could even help clubs then by offering an interface for match applications.

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Start with the proposal to ban 1887s in Classic Cowboy. I don't own one but I know several CC shooters who do.

 

That is NOT an "agenda/voting item".

 

Most of the DISCUSSION ITEMS come directly from the rank & file MEMBERS...not necessarily TGs or WB/ROC members.

They are then discussed and evaluated regarding viability and acceptance as possible agenda voting items.

Some of the more recent proposals will NOT be on the TG agenda due to ROC recommendations that the current category regs be left "as is".

We will also be soliciting the opinions of those shooting in the affected category(ies) when considering such issues.

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Thanks Misty for all the info you supplied for us..

I happen to be a life member.. And so is my wife Lacey Corsette..

And yeah... We're old and yer losing money on us now...

But... Could you please send us a freebie ??

Two (2) of the new SASS decals..

I'm hopin' you (SASS) has saved enough $$ by not sending me the old ones over the past 12-13 years..

Rance ;)

Thinkin yep may not be the right timing or place ta ask..

But hey.. We're both lifers.... :)

Thanks Misty... Got'em today ;)

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Start with the proposal to ban 1887s in Classic Cowboy. I don't own one but I know several CC shooters who do.

gee, the best Classic Cowboy there is still shoots a hammer double,,,, and the problem is????

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Seems to me a lot of folks have no idea what it takes to run a business , any business , say like SASS.

Plenty of whining and moaning but have any of them put their hand up to take on anything.

SAss has ongoing costs that are increasing like any business, and will have to increase prices, increase sales ( more members) or cut costs. Those are the only 3 things that any business can do to keep or improve its bottom line. It's run by a very small staff who in my book do an outstanding job when you think of what they put on.

Any if you want to volunteer to take on putting on the convention for example.

Cost increases are the result of inflation and I don't think sass has put up fees for a very long time, so I'm not complaining.

Things would be non existent without SASS, so imho we should be thankful for what we've got, I certainly am.

If not, you can always go fishing!

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Seems to me a lot of folks have no idea what it takes to run a business , any business , say like SASS.

Plenty of whining and moaning but have any of them put their hand up to take on anything.

SAss has ongoing costs that are increasing like any business, and will have to increase prices, increase sales ( more members) or cut costs. Those are the only 3 things that any business can do to keep or improve its bottom line. It's run by a very small staff who in my book do an outstanding job when you think of what they put on.

Any if you want to volunteer to take on putting on the convention for example.

Cost increases are the result of inflation and I don't think sass has put up fees for a very long time, so I'm not complaining.

Things would be non existent without SASS, so imho we should be thankful for what we've got, I certainly am.

If not, you can always go fishing!

Running your household and a business has similarities as far as dealing with in/outflow of money. Big difference is that in a business, you usually have supposed highly qualified hired help that you have to manage and that adds a whole new degree of difficulty.. :) However, if you have a high maintenance bunkmate..... :P

 

With all that said, seems we have a lot of folks that have difficulty managing their own cash flow.

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If SASS were a non-profit organization then a financial accounting statement would be available as a requirement.

 

As a private company wholly owned by the Wild Bunch, they are under no obligation to provide a P&L statement or other financial documentation to the members.

 

However, it sure does raise a lot of eyebrows (notice 4 pages on this thread alone) that something is being hidden by the owners to keep members in the dark.

 

This entire debate could be ended by a simple annual financial disclosure statement to the membership.

 

That is, of course, assuming there is no monkey business going on with the money. Assuming the money is accounted for (i.e. nobody dipping fingers in the cookie jar or using money for personal pleasures) then a simple annual statement would end all of this discussion.

 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why the reluctance to disclose income and expenses. The secrecy is what fuels the rumors. In the absence of accurate, honest information, people will always assume the worst.

 

SASS Leadership, prove the naysayers wrong. It should be easy.

 

GS

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Give it a break!!

 

When you walk into a business establishment (fast food, walmart, restraunt, gas station, hospital, gun shop, Doctor office, garage, Utility Company,,,Airport, whatever), you don't ask for their P&L statement before making your purchase. You look up at the menu board, decide which Happy Meal ya want, look at the price and then decide if you order or not.. Place order,,,, or,,,,, walk. If you walk and find a better deal, then you did good market research. If you insist on a P&L, then expect to be standing there for a while.

 

Same for SASS.,, it is a business,,,,, has something to offer/sell,,, look at the posted prices,,, and decide if you stay on the fence or fly. May not like the price, but that is the bottom line.

 

just a view from my saddle.

 

Blastmaster

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I've never had a customer ask to see my books and I've never asked to see the books of any company I've dealt with. For the life of me I don't get where some of you are coming from. If you want it and can afford it , get it. If not don't. This really falls under " mind your own business ". MW

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I've never had a customer ask to see my books and I've never asked to see the books of any company I've dealt with. For the life of me I don't get where some of you are coming from. If you want it and can afford it , get it. If not don't. This really falls under " mind your own business ". MW

If I buy stock in a company or make an investment in a company, I sure do look at the books. With SASS, we're paying membership dues not buying a hamburger or purchasing a product. Of course, if SASS Wild Bunch sees it as selling a product, then it should be stated as buying a year's worth of use of SASS instead of membership dues.

 

I've been member of several clubs over the years and all of them had financial disclosure available for the asking.

 

I don't really care what the Wild Bunch does. I don't need SASS and SASS doesn't need me. I'm on my 2nd year of "Purchase" and will most likely make another yearly "purchase" next summer.

 

But with the attitude expressed above comparing it to buying a hamburger or dealing with a company as a custom, let's stop calling it membership and start calling it a purchase.

 

GS

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Just for comparison, I was involved in SCUBA diving both recrationally and professionally for about 19 years.

 

The investment in guns to get started in CAS was camparable for for a very basic investment for SCUBA. But after a mere 6 months I jumped into the professional end, becoming a Dive Master. This bumps the investment well beyond the initial investment for CAS.

 

Renewal of DM annually was $150. Now lts talk about liability insurance, annually. Now le t s talk about buying dive equipment for wife and 2 kids. Basic regulator setup at least $800 each, mine cost $1,700 then I added a high end dive computer for anothr $2,000. Multiple wetsuits for varying conditions; $200- $600 each.

 

Now add training for various specialties: wreck diving, underwater photography, deep diving, mixed gas diving, night diving, underwater navigation, underwater recovery, etc.

 

Then, move into instructor status. Just the trainig for that puts CAS firearms in a low-cost bracket.

 

Instructor insurance of $2,000/year, which I have had to miantain for 7 years after I stopped teaching due to possible litigation from former students should they do something stupid and decide to sue me.

 

Yeah ,CAS & SASS expenses are steep, but I've had more expensive hobbies.

 

Want to talk about BMW motorcycles?

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But you are a customer and you are buying a product / service. Plan and simple. I am also a member of several organizations and they are Not a business for profit. While SASS , Costco and even worst SAMs Club calling it a membership may have some confused they are a business and deserve to make a profit. I for one hope they do a better job with money management. For selfish reasons I'll admit. Not for some sort of refund or lower dues but so they stay intact and we can keep playing. MW

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But you are a customer and you are buying a product / service. Plan and simple. I am also a member of several organizations and they are Not a business for profit. While SASS , Costco and even worst SAMs Club calling it a membership may have some confused they are a business and deserve to make a profit. I for one hope they do a better job with money management. For selfish reasons I'll admit. Not for some sort of refund or lower dues but so they stay intact and we can keep playing. MW

MW -

Sams, Costco both publish annual reports.

 

I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I pay my membership and shoot in local club events. When the cost vs. benefit equation gets out of balance, I will not renew.

 

All my point is/was is that with zero transparency on the part of Wild Bunch / SASS regarding financial disclosure, they are setting themselves up for this kind of conversation.

 

Regarding finances, they seem to be about as transparent as the Obama Administration. The black hole regarding basic income and expenses leads to this. So, back to my point stop calling it membership and start calling it a service people are purchasing for a price. Membership has a connotation that the member is a stakeholder not simply a consumer.

 

GS.

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MW -

Sams, Costco both publish annual reports.

 

I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I pay my membership and shoot in local club events. When the cost vs. benefit equation gets out of balance, I will not renew.

 

All my point is/was is that with zero transparency on the part of Wild Bunch / SASS regarding financial disclosure, they are setting themselves up for this kind of conversation.

 

Regarding finances, they seem to be about as transparent as the Obama Administration. The black hole regarding basic income and expenses leads to this. So, back to my point stop calling it membership and start calling it a service people are purchasing for a price. Membership has a connotation that the member is a stakeholder not simply a consumer.

 

GS.

how about we quit yacking and go back to shooting, having fun, and joshing with friends!!!! let it go!!!!

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GS, I see we will have to agree to disagree. I'm glad you'll stay and hope to shoot with you some day. Good luck. MW.

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