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SASS Membership Fees


Misty Moonshine

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Misty Moonshine,

I appreciate your somewhat detailed explanation, however without full financial disclosure of operating costs, it falls flat. Also there are a couple of issues in your explanation that I would like to address.

 

1. Your explanation of why fees are increasing comes at the wrong time. I have been a member of multiple clubs and organizations over the years including PADI (Professional Association of Diving Instructors) for 19 years as a SCUBA Dive Master and instructor. NEVER did any other organization I was a member of, raise fees/dues without FIRST informing the membership of an impending or planned increase BEFORE the increase took effect. Your (SASS's) timing is off. I have gone back through all the emails I have received since joining SASS in November 2014 and do not find ANY notification or communication of an impending increase. This is NOT how a professional organization should operate.

 

2. You address the SASS Membership fee increase in what I think, is a very weak explanation. Let me quote:

 

"Initial reactions may be that the increase of $20 per year per member translates as extreme. But considering that membership rates have remained untouched for 10 years, the increase translates into a $2 increase per year over 10 years that happened to come at once, despite our best efforts to do everything in our power to keep rates down."

 

This would only make sense for persons that have been SASS members for 10 years or more and pay as annual members. For anyone that has been a member less than 10 years, these numbers don't add up. For myself, having only joined SASS in 2014, your explanation holds no water. I just saw annual dues jump 44%. Now granted, I joined initially with a one year membership but then added a few more years on so I'm covered until February 11, 2019, but for those who only recently joined, your numbers don't make sense.

 

My wife and I own our business that we started 13 months ago. It is growing and we are hopeful it continues to grow as this is our shot at controlling our own destiny and retirement. In our journey to begin our business, one key theme we held must be maintained. COMMUNICATION. We believe that communication is key in ALL aspect of life whether it be business, marriage, raising children, friendships, etc. Without GOOD communication, even the best relationship and hopes can and will fail.

 

That is where my real complaint and burr under my blanket comes with how SASS has mismanaged this situation. Explanations are coming AFTER the changes are implemented not BEFORE they were. In my opinion, that shows very poor management skills and decision making on the part of the heads of the organization.

 

We all understand the cost of living, price increases and the mismanagement that Washington D.C. creates daily that affect our lives and bottom lines. I believe I can accurately state that none of us involved with SASS begrudge or deny that fees and dues need to increase due to rising expenses. It's a fact of life in the world we have allowed to be created.

 

I think that most of the frustration is how this has been handled. The fact that the increases were implemented from 'on high' with no warning, no input from members (or customers?), no transparency, no solicitation of feedback based upon an explanation of the situation PRIOR to actions being taken.

 

I have a difficult time understanding the decisions that were made to make these adjustments in a vacuum rather than how the vast majority of organizations make similar decisions: alerting the membership BEFORE implementation. It boggles my mind.

 

When I was teaching SCUBA as an independant instructor, I came to a period where my costs increased due to increases from my vendors. All my vendors alerted me to their increases 6 months to 1 year before they actually increased costs. I turned around and announced that 6 months in the future, my costs would have to increase and provided the reasons why.

 

I believe that the way this has been handled by SASS will result in some people deciding not to continue with SAS membership. Partially due to the financials but also due to the poor handling and putting the cart before the horse. It will also cause some people NOT to join SASS sue to the amount of the annual fee compared to many other shooting sport organizations and the handling of this event. I hope that SASS survives because I greatly enjoy this sport and I think it needs a governing body of some kind. But it appears to me that a different mindset of how to work WITH the membership (or are we customers?) needs to be implemented at the top.

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I'm not so sure about those "cushy" jobs at headquarters. At EOT this year I seem to recall Misty and many of the other ladies delivering water and energy snacks to the bays during the day while asking if anything else was needed to keep the posses comfortable and hydrated! Every time I have had interaction with the staff at Founders, they seem to be multi tasking! That is the type of leadership I want to see for the organization. Seems they aren't perfect, but I believe they are dedicated!

 

I don't always agree with Phantom, but he does put it in spot on perspective on this subject!

This "game" is what I was born to do.........just the most fun. Some will leave, and we will wish them well and hopefully finances work out for them in the future.

 

Misty, I think the passionate responses on the topic actually show that most all care about the future of SASS, keep on track girl!

Agree or disagree, I'd most likely shoot with any of you and hope to, and we'll have a good time.

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It's a fine statement -- the trouble being is that it should have been put out in May or June. Credibility is lost when events happen and then, after the fact, are announced. Credibility, once lost, is very hard to regain.

 

I'll more than likely renew. I've been a member for many years and I don't see giving up that membership, but I'm concerned that at least at the local level I'm not really seeing the SASS expense for "support to clubs" that seems to make up such an important part of this message. What support to clubs? A website where the clubs can download rules -- other than that clubs pay their freight for services. I know when I was a match director that we received almost nothing from SASS that we didn't pay for, or that we didn't get sponsors for, and either way the actual dollars left our area and went to the national organization. That's not a bad thing, but it highlights that there is no massive revenue drain on the national organization when it comes to club support.

Declining membership is a problem -- it's possible that the folks who worshiped silver-screen cowboys and hence wanted to shoot in this sort of sport are getting old and inactive and can no longer support a national organization. If so that's a shame, but increasing prices for people who are approaching (or in) their fixed-income years is unlikely to improve matters. It's an example of the Laffer Curve, applied to membership fees rather than taxation -- if fees go up, membership may decline more rapidly depending on where on the curve rates are now. From the "out here in the world" perspective, it's impossible to know where SASS lies on that curve, but nonetheless, it occupies some such point. If membership continues to decline will we see prices increase or decrease? We don't know, but perhaps SASS would have been ahead to do a membership survey to determine if people would quit if prices went up -- and again the time to do that survey was before a price increase. The organizatoin seems to have big strategic goals, but no real tactical plan for achieving those goals, based on the "cart-before-the-horse" nature of this particular rollout.

As a longtime CAS shooter and overall fan of SASS in general, I hope things improve. I'm optimistic that they will as, from this perspective, they almost have to if the organization is to persist at all.

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I'm not so sure about those "cushy" jobs at headquarters. At EOT this year I seem to recall Misty and many of the other ladies delivering water and energy snacks to the bays during the day while asking if anything else was needed to keep the posses comfortable and hydrated! Every time I have had interaction with the staff at Founders, they seem to be multi tasking! That is the type of leadership I want to see for the organization. Seems they aren't perfect, but I believe they are dedicated!

 

I don't always agree with Phantom, but he does put it in spot on perspective on this subject!

This "game" is what I was born to do.........just the most fun. Some will leave, and we will wish them well and hopefully finances work out for them in the future.

 

Misty, I think the passionate responses on the topic actually show that most all care about the future of SASS, keep on track girl!

Agree or disagree, I'd most likely shoot with any of you and hope to, and we'll have a good time.

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Well written summary of the state of the union os SASS. Simple solution. More members, obvious from post. SUGGESTION: find a way to provide renewal or new member info packets (with application forms) that clubs can use to solicit non member shooters or renewals for members that quit paying for say 2 yesrs to sign up. This by far is the most fertile area for members, much higher rate possible than new shooter rate. How about a positive incentative such as giving the club say $5 or $10 for each new member signed up via this process. This makes more sense than what looks like a club tax to the clubs.

Hi Gold Canyon Kid,

 

In 2014, SASS launched a Membership Recruitment program; this program was released and presented to all TGs at the SASS Convention in San Antonio- for dissemination to the home clubs they represent. We are now 8 months past the official launch, and not a single club has taken advantage of the program.

 

You can find information on the program here: http://www.sassnet.com/clubs/RecruitRet-8ps-Memb15-web.pdf

 

Additionally, for over 2 years now, SASS has offered the "Refer-a-Friend" Program to all SASS members; with few takers.

 

You can find more information on the SASS Refer a Friend program here: http://www.sassnet.com/RAF.php

 

Thank you,

Misty

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This is the first I've heard about this. Due to increased family committments, I've not had the opportunity to do much shooting in the past couple of years. In addition, the parent club I shot with most of the time was forced (internal politics :( ) to move to another site, too far away for me to get to. Fortunately, there is another excellent club about the same time/distance at which I can shoot, time permitting.

 

Although I am not totally retired, our income has declined and medical expenses not paid by insurance have tended to drift upward, especially the costs of meds. One reason I have continued as a SASS member is to be able to show my association and committment to SASS. I will consider what I will do when it comes time to renew.

 

One observation/example of the potential for bad things to happen is as follows: A religious congregation had purchased a building from another congregation, expecting its membership to increase with the new facility. It became obvious that they couldn't keep up with the expenses. So they raised the costs of the religious school by 50% in an attempt to offset expenses. The results were dramatic! Half the members dropped out immediately, and went elsewhere to educate their kids. The net result was the congregation was forced to sell the building. While it is still in existance, its future is shaky. Not saying this will happen to SASS, but it could be an example of what may happen. IMHO, a better plan might be to increase the dues in more gradual increments. I know that sounds like "cutting off the dog's tail a few inches at a time, so it wouldn't hurt so much" :o , but sometimes folks can handle such increments better than a sudden shock.

 

For now...just have to see what my budget looks like...

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All,

I have read all the comments posted so far and I think we all miss the mark.

Yes, SASS is a membership organization built to promote the sport. I have recently transitioned from other shooting sports to SASS due to mainly the people I met at the shoots I first attended and every shoot since. When I went to my first shoot to watch (The New Mexico State Championship), everyone I talked to offer to let me shoot their guns for a stage. I was recovering from surgery, but I thought this was a great group of people who at a Championship event would let me take their equipment out and play. Try that at a NASCAR race, golf tournament, or even three gun. Everyone I have met in the past year have been the friendliest people I have met in any hobby of mine over the years. When I went to EoT as a rookie this year, my Posse took me in like a family member. I had a gun break, someone let me use theirs. I was by myself, a group brought me in, watched over me and even fed me. I learned so much from people who asked me if I wanted hints, advice and tips, not just forced them on me.

When I decided to transition to SASS, I went ahead and purchased a Life Membership. I do this with all organizations I join; as if I am going to make the commitment to an organization I research the organization, their mission, the people, and what they offer a group, community or nation. Currently I belong to a few organizations, NRA, Military Officers Association, VFW, and others, all “for life”. That means I am with them through the good times and the bad just like a marriage.

I see some will stop being members and that is a personal decision that appears nothing can prevent. Looking at the membership figures Misty posted, this seems like an ongoing issue with members as almost 2/3s of the members are Inactive. With that I assume all the posts are from Active members. Now it is obvious that our organization is falling on some hard times and has thought of a way to “right the ship”.

We are the ones that can assist with the righting of the ship and if we do not agree with their plan, “Who has a better one?” I am sure there are a lot of us with a skill that can assist the Wild Bunch with this task of saving SASS. I am just tired of people only restating the obvious, but not doing what builds great organizations and that is to develop ideas. Now does anyone have a better one out there? Let’s do what we say we do and in the “Cowboy Way”, help ourselves and save this great organization.

Colonel Lou

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Hi Gold Canyon Kid,

 

In 2014, SASS launched a Membership Recruitment program; this program was released and presented to all TGs at the SASS Convention in San Antonio- for dissemination to the home clubs they represent. We are now 8 months past the official launch, and not a single club has taken advantage of the program.

 

You can find information on the program here: http://www.sassnet.com/clubs/RecruitRet-8ps-Memb15-web.pdf

 

Additionally, for over 2 years now, SASS has offered the "Refer-a-Friend" Program to all SASS members; with few takers.

 

You can find more information on the SASS Refer a Friend program here: http://www.sassnet.com/RAF.php

 

Thank you,

Misty

It would be interesting to see how many TGs brought this program forward to their clubs. I have never heard of it before. I have never seen it mentioned on the SASS Wire. Was it mentioned on the TG Wire? Now that the clubs have a monetary interest in creating new members or resigning folks that quit, it might be time to simplify it and sweeten the offer.

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It would be interesting to see how many TGs brought this program forward to their clubs. I have never heard of it before. I have never seen it mentioned on the SASS Wire. Was it mentioned on the TG Wire? Now that the clubs have a monetary interest in creating new members or resigning folks that quit, it might be time to simplify it and sweeten the offer.

The TG system is broken/antiquated. Why is the TG wire not visible to all members? Io can understand not allowing members to post there but we should be allowed to read it.

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I already posted in the other thread on Membership Fees the question “Do you want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away?” but maybe the real question is… “Do you feel like you are a Customer of SASS or a Member of SASS?”

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241114&page=2

 

I am a Customer at Costco. I go there, purchase what I need (and a few things I don’t), and go on my merry way. I don’t care if Costco makes money on my purchases, lose money, or breaks even. I get my stuff, pay the price, and that’s the end of it. If Costco were to fail tomorrow, I would just go to Sam’s Club or Walmart or wherever else had what I needed.

 

I am a Member of the Cousteau Society and have been since 1986. I am also a scuba diver and have seen firsthand the deterioration of the waters of this planet. I send them between $75.00 and $100.00 per year and get a couple of glossy magazines and nothing else. I don’t get support from them when I dive, no discounts at dive locations, not much of anything. The reason I maintain my membership with them is because they support and lobby for a cause I believe in, the protection of the oceans and waters of this planet and, with enough members and their international recognition, their voice carries weight when they testify for that cause.

 

When I first joined SASS, I have to admit that I thought more like a Customer than a Member. I paid my money, got my badge, my alias (although I should have done a better job with that!), got my Chronicle, went to a few shoots, and left happy. But over the years, 13 at this point, I have come to recognize that in reality, I am a Member of an organization that does a lot more than just issue me a badge. SASS, the organization and its members, maintain and update the Rules of the Game. They provide a framework for all of us to play this game (or if you prefer, compete in this sport) and whether you recognize it or not, without that governing body, this would rapidly deteriorate into a loose collection of clubs all doing something similar, but not the same. While I only attend between 12-15 matches a year, mostly at my home club, I do travel some and I know that when I get where ever I am going, I will be playing the same game as at home. Sure, there will be differences, nothing significant, but that is what provides the incentive to travel and experience new clubs. Most importantly, I don’t have to worry about safety because I know they will all be following the SASS Guidelines!

 

In addition, SASS as an organization, has invested time and effort into supporting the 2nd Amendment through both it’s website and through its publications. While some may argue that we have the NRA to do that, I can tell you from personal experience that although the NRA is an important asset, so is SASS. Living in Maryland, a world renowned anti-gun state, testifying in front of the state legislature and mentioning the NRA is a sure fire way to turn off 90% of the delegates. But show up in your Cowboy clothes, and talk about how their proposed laws will affect your sport and you will get their attention. On several occasions, along with other SASS members, we have changed a few minds (or at least their votes) on some critical gun rights issues. And let’s not forget our international pards. In some places around the world, unless they belong to an internationally recognized shooting sport, they can’t even own guns. SASS is that recognized organization.

 

There is no doubt that SASS could have handled this better and I suspect this will have an effect on membership numbers, not unlike the elimination of the paper Chronicle (which I still miss!). Misty has explained the reasons for that change and the new cost structure in her post. Certainly, there could have been more detail, but what they did is a new direction for them and indicates that they are in fact moving towards the Non/Not-For-Profit Corporation where everything will be public knowledge. While I am sure there is still much work to be done, I look forward to that transition down the trail.

 

To answer my own question, I consider myself a Member of SASS and as such will continue to support them through my efforts, through attendance at State and above matches and, in a few more years, annual memberships for my grandkids.

 

So, how about you? Do you consider yourself a Customer of SASS or a Member of SASS?

 

Thanks for listening and I hope to see you on the Range,

 

Dogmeat Dad

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Dogmeat, I felt like a member, now I feel like a customer.

 

Remember those Big and Close posts? Keep the customer happy?

 

Be interesting to see the number of annual renewal numbers a year from now.

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[quote name="Arcadia Outlaw SASS#71385" post="3147687" timestamp="1440597452

 

AO

 

It would be interesting to know if membership fees have anything to do with Founders Ranch ? Lawsuits for FR

 

I asked that question earlier, but no response was given.

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This whole situation reminds me of several recent SASS events unfortunately. The whole Wrangler jeans controversary, the closed long gun rule flipflops, the mess about unknown ammo load factor before EOT a while back, etc. The good news is that the sport and SASS survived and will survive the financial crisis.

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Posted · Hidden by Misty Moonshine, August 26, 2015 - Banned member post - Maker strikes again
Hidden by Misty Moonshine, August 26, 2015 - Banned member post - Maker strikes again

If I may pose a question, what's the income to expense ratio for the big hunk of dirt in New Mexico including the lawsuit??

 

if founders ranch was a separate business from sass with no cross revenue, would it support itself?? Would it be profitable?? would it be able to cover its own legal expenses??? It's own up keep?? It's own staff???

 

Are these questions SASS are capable or willing to answer??

 

If the answer is no to any of the above questions, then what value is founders ranch to the "average" sass member?

 

And before anyone answers with "EOT" using the easy numbers "currently active" of just under 20,000 and knowing that EOT had around 500 or so participants, that means over 19,000 members paid to support founders ranch with no personal gain (assuming founders ranch is not 100% self sustaining)

 

And most of the successful matches around the world in many shooting sports are held on public ranges (Uspsa nationals, ATA world shoot, winter range, superstition mystery mountain 3-gun, and many others)

 

I pose this question out of honest interest, but don't expect an answer

 

I believe the fact that Gawd Awful's post isn't being answered says it all...

 

And the accurate, short explanation for the cost increase, and club-affiliation fee may very well be;

 

Annual-Renewal members (approx. 20,000) are shouldering the brunt of a 480 acre ranch (with an accompanying lawsuit) where only 2% of active members visited last year*

 

SASS may have had the best intentions when buying the ranch. Maybe the numbers looked like they’d support the decision at the time. In hindsight, too bad the clock couldn’t be rolled back on the decision to buy Founders Ranch. If SASS had got out of the Word Championship and Range Management business, and instead focused on membership management from a 1,000 square foot office space, I doubt we’d be having this conversation. If this is truly about sustainability, and for the benefit of the membership at large, if there’s any way that Founders could be dumped and gotten off the books, then maybe that's what needs to happen.

 

*Approx. 27,400 active, 554 of which attended EOT in 2015 = 2.02%.

 

Maker

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Misty, with the level of response your post has received, it seems obvious that feelings run the full range from disapproval to total agreement. While having been a SASS member for five years, I have seen and appreciated the strong desire in the membership to support and strengthen SASS. I would expect a majority of members to easily extent their memberships to support SASS and because it will not really cause financial hardship. However, there will be those who do not renew due to finances. Your post was absolutely well done for the short time available for response. However, far more questions resulted than were answered. May I suggest it is time for full disclosure. And may I also suggest an article in the October Chronicle as the vehicle. Full disclosure would start with an honest projection of SASS membership for the immediate, coming years. It should include the actual financial health of the current SASS budget year and the projected/expected revenues and expenses for the coming year. All expenses that require membership financial support but not directly serving all membership need to be documented and justified. It is difficult to accept the extensive increase in membership dues are required to support only what the typical member would assume "member services" would include. Any expense element that is not self-supporting needs to be fully justified for full membership benefit.

 

I suggest projections of actual member numbers for the immediate future is because of what I see in the local clubs I support in Eastern Idaho. Our local Idaho Falls club seldom attracts more that 15 to 20 shooters for our monthly shoot. All are seniors and some drive 100 plus miles to attend. Our local club also includes other members shooting IDPA, USPSA, and Steel Challenge. These venues provide exceptional growth to the club in both membership and funding. We hold an annual open house to show the community what is available. Many visitors enjoyed shooting our single action weapons but no one joined. Response in both men and women to IDPA was exceptional. My other local club is in Rexburg, Idaho. To my knowledge, the Rexburg club offers the most unique shooting venue anywhere in the US. All open prairie, a ghost town and no berms. We have fewer than four members under the age of 50. We sponsored the annual Idaho State black powder shoot until two years ago when it was dropped for lack of workers. We are aging. Workers for the annual match three day match are lacking this year due to member age. This will be the first year for me to forgo shooting and working the side matches of the first day due to my age. I like many of us are in our middle and late 70s and three days are a bit much.

 

I have no complaints as SASS has and still is real enjoyment and friendship for me. I also have real concerns for the future and feel the need for honest discussion, to include finances, is absolutely necessary if SASS is to prosper. Sagerider

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The TG system is broken/antiquated. Why is the TG wire not visible to all members? Io can understand not allowing members to post there but we should be allowed to read it.

 

Smokestack-

 

I would welcome all feedback regarding the TG system and your interpretation of it being broken/antiquated. Also, any suggestions regarding improvements would be well received and considered for implementation.

 

Misty

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The TG system is broken/antiquated. Why is the TG wire not visible to all members? Io can understand not allowing members to post there but we should be allowed to read it.

Yea Smokestack good idea, transparency is a good thing! :D Raising membership fees by almost 50% is NOT!

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Hi Gold Canyon Kid,

 

In 2014, SASS launched a Membership Recruitment program; this program was released and presented to all TGs at the SASS Convention in San Antonio- for dissemination to the home clubs they represent. We are now 8 months past the official launch, and not a single club has taken advantage of the program.

 

You can find information on the program here: http://www.sassnet.com/clubs/RecruitRet-8ps-Memb15-web.pdf

 

Additionally, for over 2 years now, SASS has offered the "Refer-a-Friend" Program to all SASS members; with few takers.

 

You can find more information on the SASS Refer a Friend program here: http://www.sassnet.com/RAF.php

 

Thank you,

Misty

Releasing the information is fine, however releasing it only to the TG's at the Convention is like throwing something into a Black Hole. It never went anywhere else.

And referring a friend for $5.00 is not why I would refer anyone, friend or not. I have been using a refer a friend system for 30 years in my business and regularly advertise it to my existing customers. It is a $50.00 value. Never once have I had anyone take advantage of it.

 

When a program exists you have to "push" it. Someone has to light a fire under it and keep it burning till it catches or the fire goes out.

Find someone who has a bunch of matches!

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While I know and respect Dogmeat I must disagree with part of his post. I have always felt like a customer and have had no problems with that. I am a customer many places and I DO WANT them to make money off of me. That's how they stay in business. I don't care if it's Walmart or Mom and Pops. I go there for a reason and if they go out of business I'll have to find somewhere else. If I had the attitude "I don't care if they make money" eventually I'd have nowhere to go. All this talk about where the money goes is a waste of time unless your trying to run their business. It comes down to , do they give you enough for your money. As far as SASS goes it's obvious we have many on both sides of the fence. For now I'm in the yes camp.

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How many shooters over the years have signed up, paid their money for a year or maybe two, and then after getting their badge don't renew anymore? Of course, to go to the bigger matches membership has been required

 

Maybe it's time to allow shooters to shoot a half dozen matches and after that require SASS membership for all SASS affiliated matches, including monthlies. Then you'll know where the sport really stands and how many people will do their part to support it. Smoking Gator

 

I posted this on the other thread with no response.

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How many shooters over the years have signed up, paid their money for a year or maybe two, and then after getting their badge don't renew anymore? Of course, to go to the bigger matches membership has been required

 

Maybe it's time to allow shooters to shoot a half dozen matches and after that require SASS membership for all SASS affiliated matches, including monthlies. Then you'll know where the sport really stands and how many people will do their part to support it. Smoking Gator

 

I posted this on the other thread with no response.

 

Hi Smokin Gator, sorry I didn't get to this post on the other thread; I'm sure you can imagine the number of questions I am trying to answer- all at once. I'm chipping away at them the best I can; I answer one and 3 more pop up.

If you look at the number of "Inactive" members in that chart, that answers your question. A member joins SASS, gets his/her new membership package, badge, SASS number, and alias registration. The next year, a renewal notice is sent out. If the membership is not renewed by the expiration date, the membership type moves to "Expired". A member remains as "Expired" for 3 months; during which time we reach out to them through varies forms to encourage their renewal. If, after 3 months they have still not renewed, that membership then becomes "Inactive".

 

To answer your question... it happens alot. Getting excited about SASS and Cowboy Action Shooting is the easy part. They join SASS eagerly- then its time to get started. New members can often times be overwhelmed with what it takes to actually get started in CAS. We do all we can to support new members in finding their way, but sometimes we lose them...

 

Shooters are already allowed to attend monthly matches to their hearts contents without being SASS members. SASS doesn't demand/require all Cowboy Action Shooters BE SASS members- we want them all to be, but demanding/requiring things simply doesn't work.

 

Although I appreciate your idea, even if this was a feasible approach, actually enforcing it would be a huge obstacle.

 

Make sense?

 

Misty

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How many shooters over the years have signed up, paid their money for a year or maybe two, and then after getting their badge don't renew anymore? Of course, to go to the bigger matches membership has been required

 

Maybe it's time to allow shooters to shoot a half dozen matches and after that require SASS membership for all SASS affiliated matches, including monthlies. Then you'll know where the sport really stands and how many people will do their part to support it. Smoking Gator

 

I posted this on the other thread with no response.

We let non-SASS shooters shoot monthlies without even questioning them. Maybe SASS ought to let non-SASS shooters shoot the big matches and give the SASS members a discount!! Just a thought!

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While I know and respect Dogmeat I must disagree with part of his post. I have always felt like a customer and have had no problems with that. I am a customer many places and I DO WANT them to make money off of me. That's how they stay in business. I don't care if it's Walmart or Mom and Pops. I go there for a reason and if they go out of business I'll have to find somewhere else. If I had the attitude "I don't care if they make money" eventually I'd have nowhere to go. All this talk about where the money goes is a waste of time unless your trying to run their business. It comes down to , do they give you enough for your money. As far as SASS goes it's obvious we have many on both sides of the fence. For now I'm in the yes camp.

 

I probably should have stated that better because you are absolutely correct. Having run my own business for many years, as have you, we both understand the necessity to generate more income than we generate in expenses. In that regard, SASS and Costco, and for that matter all businesses, are the same. My point, which I poorly made, was that SASS was more valuable to me than the cost of membership.

 

OK, that's maybe 5 posts in two days. I better get back to work and generate some INCOME! :lol:

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Maybe it's time to allow shooters to shoot a half dozen matches and after that require SASS membership for all SASS affiliated matches, including monthlies. Then you'll know where the sport really stands and how many people will do their part to support it. Smoking Gator

 

I posted this on the other thread with no response.

IDPA requires membership to shoot monthly matches, usually one of 2 things happens, the smaller percentage of clubs that enforce this (in my experience) tend to have smaller matches and less members. The larger percentage (again in my experience) simply post FULL match results on a home club website, then send a different result sheet (minus any non members) to the IDPA home office. The reason for this is simple, they are more interested in growing the sport and attracting new members than they are in enforcing a rule that serves only to increase the wealth of IDPA.

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Gawd Awful. I am a member of IDPA, USPSA,ICORE, W3G and SASS. Some IDPA clubs don't follow the requirements. But most that I have seen are a bit more honest than your experience. All of the shooting sports, including SASS,have problems with clubs promoting "IDPA type" or "SASS style" matches that don't follow the rules of the parent organization. My experience is that a high percentage of IDPA shooters do join, as required.

 

Misty. The number posted of expired or inactive only has to do with the status of their membership. How many of them continue participating in SASS matches, with their badges, but never renew their membership?

 

Smoking Gator

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Gawd Awful. I am a member of IDPA, USPSA,ICORE, W3G and SASS. Some IDPA clubs don't follow the requirements. But most that I have seen are a bit more honest than your experience. All of the shooting sports, including SASS,have problems with clubs promoting "IDPA type" or "SASS style" matches that don't follow the rules of the parent organization. My experience is that a high percentage of IDPA shooters do join, as required.

 

Misty. The number posted of expired or inactive only has to do with the status of their membership. How many of them continue participating in SASS matches, with their badges, but never renew their membership?

 

Smoking Gator

Good point, I know of two right now and NO I'm not a fink! :D

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Misty. The number posted of expired or inactive only has to do with the status of their membership. How many of them continue participating in SASS matches, with their badges, but never renew their membership?

 

Smoking Gator

 

Probably a lot! Enforcability is the issue... we choose to operate by a code built on integrity, honesty and respect.... there is nothing we can do about the folks who make the choice to misrepresent themselves in this way.

 

Matter of fact, nearly every year at events we have SASS badges turned in to lost and found that fell off someone... when we look them up to see who they belong to, its an inactive membership. It is disheartening.

 

Misty

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Why not just charge each sanctioned club $1.00 per shooter for a monthly match fee? Then you can get money from non-SASS shooters, Life members and current annual members without raising annual fees. I fear we will lose members with the increase. Most shooters I know probably shoot around 20 matches a year, which should more than offset the increase in dues. Some clubs would just absorb the fee and pay it, others would just charge an extra dollar.

 

Assassin

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SASS, as an organization, adds credibility when trying to recruit new members... SASS is also promoting responsible gun ownership...I love this game, the people and shooting in general. When I was looking for a job, I was ecstatic to be able to purchase an existing cowboy business so that my hobby has become my work! I've never worked harder and am the happiest I've ever been. I'm in for the long haul and would be glad to cover SASS members dues if they are in need. Let's cowboy up, trust the SASS leadership to get through the transition to non-profit and shoot the heck outta some steel!

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Why not just charge each sanctioned club $1.00 per shooter for a monthly match fee? Then you can get money from non-SASS shooters, Life members and current annual members without raising annual fees. I fear we will lose members with the increase. Most shooters I know probably shoot around 20 matches a year, which should more than offset the increase in dues. Some clubs would just absorb the fee and pay it, others would just charge an extra dollar.

 

Assassin

Where is that "LIKE" button?

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The way I see it.......

 

Being a member for less than a year and shooting only local nearby club matches so far, I see no value whatsoever to belonging to SASS and have read absolutely nothing in this forum that would change my mind so will likely not renew when my year is up. Why should I, SASS does nothing I can see for my local club, we take care of ourselves and enjoy cowboy action shooting with or without SASS!

 

I was invited to shoot Winter range next February but decided to pass when I saw the fees to shoot. I'm guessing the folks who are willing to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to shoot at matches probably won't mind having their dues doubled and likely raised again in the near future but I'm guessing those folks aren't the majority of members. I would rather pay the $5 or $10 entries for the local matches and spend the extra few hundred on other things.

 

The idea mentioned above trying to force clubs to require membership would be the quickest way to run "Customers" off entirely.

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Why not just charge each sanctioned club $1.00 per shooter for a monthly match fee? Then you can get money from non-SASS shooters, Life members and current annual members without raising annual fees. I fear we will lose members with the increase. Most shooters I know probably shoot around 20 matches a year, which should more than offset the increase in dues. Some clubs would just absorb the fee and pay it, others would just charge an extra dollar.

 

Assassin

Yeah, starting to charge life members a monthly fee is going to go over really big!

 

When local clubs see their memberships dwindling because of this, I'll bet you'll start seeing local clubs resigning from SASS in a hurry! They are trying to appeal to new shooters not run them off!

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Yeah, starting to charge life members a monthly fee is going to go over really big!

 

When local clubs see their memberships dwindling because of this, I'll bet you'll start seeing local clubs resigning from SASS in a hurry! They are trying to appeal to new shooters not run them off!

This was the same solution I mentioned earlier as a better way to try to remedy the situation. Under the current plan, 19,687 people (the yearly subscribers) are being asked to shoulder the entire burden while the 7,568 lifers (a lot, but not all of whom think this is a great plan) dont see any increase in cost. I would have no problem paying a few dollars more each shoot if it was spread more fairly. With the new price increase, you are far more likely to see new shooters run off.

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Thank you, Misty, for the explanation.

 

I'm looking for more detail, which you state will be forthcoming.

 

Particularly, you state that membership fees have been cross-subsidizing certain other activities. My question relates to EOT and the annual convention (included in your summary as "events"), and whether they are "self supporting". I looked, and there were about 600 shooters at EOT this year, versus the 27,435 annual and life members, which equates to 2% of the total members. While it's all well and good to have an annual match, if every member is significantly subsidizing this event with membership dues, something will have to change.

 

I'm also looking to see how you projected your need for a $16 increase, and whether your analysis considered any increase in the rate of loss of members as a result of the higher price.

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