Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Tex's opinion or rule change?


Straight Arrow Hombre

Recommended Posts

Don't forget that there are some of us that have to stand in front of a class of knowledgeable shooters and try and teach the rules!

 

Our job is not an easy one!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 219
  • Created
  • Last Reply

".......I am neither a match director nor a top shooter, but I do wear blue jeans to every match. I do however spend a fair amount of time promoting this game. If the owners of SASS feel that I am not a suitable example to promote the game, all they need do is send me a personal email to that effect and I will cease and desist. I am insulted and offended by the constant and continual harassment over something that is within the published rules......"

 

im in the same corral with dave - i wear wranglers , and ill jump right in here with the rules are unfortunately written by men with great intent and not enough time to out-word those that wish to stretch or game the rules they write , it is nice to see that our membership is so vast and diverse as to prompt scrutiny but often nit pickin gets in the way of a good time ,

 

i do enjoy these threads tho , they promote thought and discussion , anyone need more popcorn ???????????

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just can't get excited about this stuff anymore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK the first part about the long guns being closed is clear but different than the way it was explained. Right now it was explained that you can lay the gun down closed, but are responsible for any penalties if they apply.

 

The Jean's thing is just screwy. OK jeans are legal, but there not on certain people with certain titles or roles of responsibility. Who's going to enforce that! Bat crap crazy is what we getting with all of the different people, rules interpretations and self applied opinions..

Ike

eg

The problem with Tex's idea about closed guns is it requires the TO to judge the intent if the shooter.

I have to admit I wasn't that enthused about the closed gun rule change when it passed. Since then I've realized its a good rule and I've seen no ill effects. I have seen match directors excited to bring back some vertical staging. This weekend the Ohio state match made good use of a freestanding rifle prop for vertical staging and restaging of the rifle. This allowed shooting the rifle from the middle of the bay and then moving straight down range safely. Changing this rule or it's interpretation would be very silly at this point.

Link to post
Share on other sites

However, if the Gunfighter consistently (or nearly so) shoots both revolvers at once … they earn a penalty for “shooting out of category!”

 

I'm puzzled.................what category are they shooting out of................

 

..............and No I did not forget about BW

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Tex's idea about closed guns is it requires the TO to judge the intent if the shooter.

I have to admit I wasn't that enthused about the closed gun rule change when it passed. Since then I've realized its a good rule and I've seen no ill effects. I have seen match directors excited to bring back some vertical staging. This weekend the Ohio state match made good use of a freestanding rifle prop for vertical staging and restaging of the rifle. This allowed shooting the rifle from the middle of the bay and then moving straight down range safely. Changing this rule or it's interpretation would be very silly at this point.

I also puts double shooters on a more equal footing with the 97 when vertically staged after shooting, you do not have to worry about it closing when staged EMPTY.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also puts double shooters on a more equal footing with the 97 when vertically staged after shooting, you do not have to worry about it closing when staged EMPTY.

There are those that INTENTIONALLY re-stage their doubles closed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Please let this one run a might Allie, I would like to see where it goes.

So would I.

 

The Moderators TRY to only close threads when they've become hopelessly rude. (When you've hid over 50% of the comments, it might be time to close the thread.) Sometimes, you will see a locked thread and wonder why. It usually is not apparent sometimes because Moderators have hidden the rude posts. We want to present a kind face to folks just dropping by to check us out. Rudeness is not helpful and, if appears that the thread is not redeemable, we will lock or hide it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would put my faith in the ROC, and NO..they are NOT controlled by the WB unless a Mandate is given, and that is very rare! Over the years there have been a number of incidents where a WB member has stated his opinion... and there is no doubt that the opinion of a WB member carries a lot of weight. Often, it is an expression of how the game was originally conceived, and I don't know of anyone who knows more about the original intent of the game and rules than the WB..... however, many of those things have changed over the years, and short of a 67% vote of the TGs, or a WB mandate.. they will remain as written and interpreted by the ROC. Tex writes Editorials, and most Editorials are meant to be controversial and thought provoking. Stick to the latest rule book, study the rules, know the rules and know where to point to the rule and that should be all that you need. If anyone......... ANYONE disregards the rule book, then they are wrong.

 

A point of interest about the Jeans, or Levis to be exact. Long before the "B" Western category was around, at the second TG summit (I was there) held at the Old Frontier in LV, The Judge decreed to the Group.... that Levis were NOT allowed, and anyone wearing them to EOT would not be allowed to shoot. Well, it turned out that the Theme for EOT that year was "Silver Screen Heros". Even the quickest peek at ANY of the B Western movies of the Silver Screen will reveal that the VAST MAJORITY of the cowboys in the movies were wearing Levis (Gene did it a lot) ..... so, that edict had to be dropped.

 

Personally, I prefer to not see shooters constantly wearing modern cut Wrangler type jeans to our matches.... but so what? That's JMO... I also don't care for it when Ol #4 wears a Dress, he just don't have the legs for it, but as long as the dress has long sleeves, I can think of anything off the top of my head to prevent it.. Geeze, if Spacemen, football players, baseball players, speedo swimsuits, Blues Brothers and more have been allowed at EOT, then it is going to be hard to stop blue jeans.

 

Some fact, some opinon.

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are those that INTENTIONALLY re-stage their doubles closed.

I saw it used to good effect this weekend. I wanted to but since my double has a hard plastic butt plate I worried it would kick out and fall. I played it safe and moved an extra eight feet to restage on a shelf.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I never wore jeans at a SASS match until Tex started his assault on them.

 

I now wear them often.

:lol: We think alike……I wear them in protest of having rules and then making 'em sound like yer doin' sumthin wrong!!

 

Rye

Link to post
Share on other sites

So would I.

 

The Moderators TRY to only close threads when they've become hopelessly rude. (When you've hid over 50% of the comments, it might be time to close the thread.) Sometimes, you will see a locked thread and wonder why. It usually is not apparent sometimes because Moderators have hidden the rude posts. We want to present a kind face to folks just dropping by to check us out. Rudeness is not helpful and, if appears that the thread is not redeemable, we will lock or hide it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

I hope that didn't come across as suggesting you were quick on the trigger :huh: I really just meant I hoped you would give it a little more room than usual. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong,..but nowhere in the new re staging of the long rules does it say they can be intentionally re staged closed!

While I'm not going to go back and quote the rule, it has always been that long shall be restaged open & empty, and this has not changed that I'm aware of.

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun, and the only time a penalty will apply if it has found to have an empty or live round within.

If a shooter that I was RO ing INTENTIONALLY restaged the gun viz. made no attempt to open it....closed , then a sog penalty should apply.

After all the R O should be watching the gun, far too many watch the targets!!!

JMHO

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I have to quit this thread....just the thought of Ol#4 in a dress is enough to make me think of shooting 2 handed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually stay out of these type of posts, come-on folks this horse has been dead, beat, revived and beat again, if you want to wear jeans wear them, if you want to read Tex's article read it, just don't get mad when he says something you don't like. Just like TV if a show offends me I change the channel.

Rafe

Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong,..but nowhere in the new re staging of the long rules does it say they can be intentionally re staged closed!

While I'm not going to go back and quote the rule, it has always been that long shall be restaged open & empty, and this has not changed that I'm aware of.

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun, and the only time a penalty will apply if it has found to have an empty or live round within.

If a shooter that I was RO ing INTENTIONALLY restaged the gun viz. made no attempt to open it....closed , then a sog penalty should apply.

After all the R O should be watching the gun, far too many watch the targets!!!

JMHO

 

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun,

 

Yep.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're needin' a lawyer to 'splain the words..Y'all are into 'deviant behavior'!

 

Come on over to the one true, pure category- Classic Cowboy.

 

The rest are redundant anyway.....just sayin'...

 

Now as to those new rules....what was so hard to understand about "open ain't closed" that a change of empty hull/ case is a No Call wouldn't have fixed?

 

Maybe that Colorado wind is blowing hard out of the north this month? In which case we may be in for a high time at EOT!

:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun,

 

Yep.

That may very well be the case but the RO committee has stated that a closed gun is treated the same no matter how it got closed after a shooting string. The written words say closed gun and not an accidentally closed long gun. The issue is how does the TO/RO determine if the shooter closed the gun accidentally or on purpose? You would be then trying to rule on intent and who can do that? If I read Tex's comments he demands the shooter to go back and open the gun no matter how it was closed, ie back to the old rule.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong,..but nowhere in the new re staging of the long rules does it say they can be intentionally re staged closed!

While I'm not going to go back and quote the rule, it has always been that long shall be restaged open & empty, and this has not changed that I'm aware of.

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun, and the only time a penalty will apply if it has found to have an empty or live round within.

If a shooter that I was RO ing INTENTIONALLY restaged the gun viz. made no attempt to open it....closed , then a sog penalty should apply.

After all the R O should be watching the gun, far too many watch the targets!!!

JMHO

Show me where it says "accidentally" closes in the new rule.....it doesn't. PWB even clarified on this forum that it doesn't.

 

Plus I don't think you could justify a SOG either.

 

Stan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong,..but nowhere in the new re staging of the long rules does it say they can be intentionally re staged closed!

While I'm not going to go back and quote the rule, it has always been that long shall be restaged open & empty, and this has not changed that I'm aware of.

The intent of the new rule was...that if the gun ACCIDENTLY closed there is no penalty to move onto the next gun, and the only time a penalty will apply if it has found to have an empty or live round within.

If a shooter that I was RO ing INTENTIONALLY restaged the gun viz. made no attempt to open it....closed , then a sog penalty should apply.

After all the R O should be watching the gun, far too many watch the targets!!!

JMHO

Wow, you're an RO Instructor and you're going to apply a SOG in this case?

 

How about the rule as written?

 

SHB page 21 " Long guns will be discarded open and empty with their barrels pointed safely down range. If the action of a long gun closes after being opened and emptied, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO or spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear. No one other than the competitor may handle the gun in question."

 

 

Sorry, I don't see the word accidentally in there.

 

Here's a quote from Black Jack Zack:

 

"If the CRO/TO insists you come back to open it, yes you would be entitled to a re-shoot. Provided you have opened it and emptied it already, and the lever subsequently closes, you are NOT required to return to open the lever/action.

 

Having said that, if the CRO/TO simply advises you that it is closed, that would not be grounds for a re-shoot.......as

he/she is only doing their job. Also, if they say nothing, that is also acceptable - both cases would (proper coaching or no coaching at all) not be grounds for the re-shoot."

 

So where does the SOG come in exactly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, you're an RO Instructor and you're going to apply a SOG in this case?

 

How about the rule as written?

 

SHB page 21 " Long guns will be discarded open and empty with their barrels pointed safely down range. If the action of a long gun closes after being opened and emptied, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO or spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear. No one other than the competitor may handle the gun in question."

 

 

Sorry, I don't see the word accidentally in there.

 

Here's a quote from Black Jack Zack:

 

"If the CRO/TO insists you come back to open it, yes you would be entitled to a re-shoot. Provided you have opened it and emptied it already, and the lever subsequently closes, you are NOT required to return to open the lever/action.

 

Having said that, if the CRO/TO simply advises you that it is closed, that would not be grounds for a re-shoot.......as

he/she is only doing their job. Also, if they say nothing, that is also acceptable - both cases would (proper coaching or no coaching at all) not be grounds for the re-shoot."

 

So where does the SOG come in exactly?

That is how the rule is being taught in the RO classes now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The closing of a sxs on purpose was covered by PWB on the threads "Question for the powers that be" post#4 and "ROC clarification-action closing on long gun" post#33 . It is a no call if shooter after shooting string opens and empties a sxs then closes it to restage . I would think that if there is going to be a rule change we would hear about it in a better way than an editorial that only a handful of people read .

Link to post
Share on other sites

I never wore jeans at a SASS match until Tex started his assault on them.

 

I now wear them often.

 

I think I might start. I haven't read Tex's column in years. He doesn't have anything I want to need to hear.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1872Image.jpg

1872
THE RIVETS
Jacob Davis, a tailor from Reno, Nevada, teams with Levi Strauss to create and patent work wear riveted-for-strength made of brown cotton duck and true blue denim ... cinch belt jeans
Link to post
Share on other sites

There are those that INTENTIONALLY re-stage their doubles closed.

 

Yes I do, and only after I inquired on the legality of doing so. Blackjack Zak said it was absolutely legal. Now let's get back to those Wranglers...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welll.....The open/not open one appears to be flawed from the get go...whatever, I think I understand the rule sufficiently to make an informed decision despite Tex.

 

Bunny hop, huh? Last time I did that dance we jumped with both feets, both feets off the ground at the same time and landing on both...o'course, I might be confusing the monster mash with the jitterbug.....or was it the bird???

 

I do believe that one may 'travel' with the action closed on the long gun hammer down or open. As soon as the action is closed while loaded one foot must be planted. bang...step open...step...plant/bang.... and repeat. Seems pretty unlike a bunny hop to me. Or maybe I be missing something.

 

Blue jeans...again? Really?!??

Link to post
Share on other sites

as far as I understood, the Wild Bunch is no more the "Boss" of the SASS now non profit association and the boss is Misty Moonshine.

 

Tex is still the editor of the CC and by this place it's only his opinion and not the "bible" he's writing in the CC....

 

But from my far France, I could have misunderstood the evolution of the SASS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I drop a round on the carrier of my 97, take 3 steps THEN close the action and fire no one would say a word. Why? Because it's legal according to the rules.

 

So as an RO I'm going to need instruction on how to know when legal movement with a 97/87 is suddenly illegal.

 

I'm also going to need to know how to instantly determine if a long gun was closed intentionally or accidentally.

 

Will the ROC be providing guidance and clarification on these?

 

Stan

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I drop a round on the carrier of my 97, take 3 steps THEN close the action and fire no one would say a word. Why? Because it's legal according to the rules.

 

So as an RO I'm going to need instruction on how to know when legal movement with a 97/87 is suddenly illegal.

 

I'm also going to need to know how to instantly determine if a long gun was closed intentionally or accidentally.

 

Will the ROC be providing guidance and clarification on these?

 

Stan

I can see it now - instant replays with the replay official in the clubhouse (Posse marshal under the hood listening for final decision) :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy to say that I don't have to take blood pressure medication after reading Tex's latest missive on "appropriate attire" because I'm not reading the CC anymore, following its change to a digital format.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.