McCandless Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 T.O. getting a shooter ready to start: Just wanted to see how y'all do it... As I was coming along most of the RO's I experienced went like so: "Shooter Ready?" (shooter indicates ready)..."Standby"...<<BEEP>> or (Shooter indicates Ready)..."Standby"...<<BEEP>> Still experience it that way most of the time. So, that's the way I've been doing it. Lately, I was admonished by one club official that after the shooter indicates ready, I shouldn't say a thing. Just <<BEEP>>. (Not just for him, but for everybody) I've fumbled through the rule books but can't find it, (although I need to read them again, as my rememberer leaks lately). What is the recommended cycle? What do you do? McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm with you. I always give the "standby", then about 1 second before beep. How I was taught, and the same everywhere I've shot, so far (somewhat limited to the SoCal area). Think of it in terms of track competition (yea - I was once young & quicker): The commands are: "On you mark", "Get set", "Go"! (or pistol shot). Consistency is important, and the SASS start line is "on your mark", the TO call of "Standby" is "Get Ready", and the beep is the starter pistol shot or "Go"! Harvey Who is interested to see if this is different in some other region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think a "standby" does 2 things first it tells the shooter that you heard his line and are getting ready to start him, and 2 it gives a signal tothe spotters to focus on the stage. Spotters are not always in a position to hear the shooter say his line or indicate ready and some shooters are very soft spoken and the "standby" lets them know he is starting. Personally I don't care what you say before the "standby" but to start me I want a "standby" then beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananaskis Kid, SASS #62402 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If you look in the ROI Handbook in the section entitled Range Commands you will find that "Stand By" is used before the Beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulshan 20262 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Howdy Pards, RO 1, page 11, Is the shooter ready?, then Stand By, followed by a one to three second pause before the beep. Unless it's a self-starting stage, then the RO can say "Indicate ready by saying the line" before the Stand By. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If there's no line I ask does the shooter understand the course of fire? If he indicates yes I ask is the shooter ready.If he/she says no,I tell them to let me know when.If there is a line then the line lets me know they are ready. Only then do I turn my head enough to make sure and yell out standby to get the spotters attention. We use a 2 second delay on our timers.Then the beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Nelson #11784 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 One of our top lady shooters cracked me up at one shoot.... The TO said "Shooter ready", she indicated she was... the next theing was "Beep" She didn't move... except to turn her head and say "Where's my Standby?" Classic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Jack Hammer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That's range officer 101 as far as my experience...military and law enforcement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus 'Buck' Silver Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Charlie Whiskers, on 27 Jan 2014 - 10:31 PM, said: If there's no line I ask does the shooter understand the course of fire? The "understand the course of fire?" question should come from the Loading Officer, not the RO/TO, per RO I and RO II. Kananaskis Kid and Kulshan have it right as to where to look: RO I Page 11 - Range Commands. Also refer to RO II Page 7 - The Course of Fire RO I Version 19.2 January 2014, page 11 - RANGE COMMANDS "Do You Understand the Course of Fire?" is the customary initial query at the Loading Table ... "Is the Shooter Ready?" is normally the Timer Operator's initial command and should always be said just before the "Stand By" command... ...questions regarding the negotiation of the stage should be kept to a minimum at the firing line... "Stand By" should always be the last words spoken with a one- to three-second pause before the start signal unless the stage calls for the shooter to say a line or use a prop before the time starts. "Indicate Ready by Saying the Line" can optionally be used to cue the competitor to self-start the stage. The "Stand By" command should still be used after the competitor says their line. RO II Version 19 January 2014, page 7 - The Course of Fire Determine the readiness state of the shooter by asking "Is the shooter ready?" The Chief Range Officer shall answer any last minute questions or clear any confusion the shooter has at this point without extreme elaboration. It is inappropriate for the Chief Range Officer to re-explain the stage for each and every shooter. The Loading Officer is available for that duty, if needed. If a shooter is obviously unprepared for the stage, politely advise them to move to the unloading table for further reflection. Prepare the shooter to begin by declaring "Shooter is ready; stand by" or "Indicate ready by saying your line." The Chief Range Officer shall give a short pause and start the timer so as not to surprise the shooter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus 'Buck' Silver Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Charlie, I think the "understand the course of fire? question used to be a RO/TO question, but was shifted to the Loading Officer to minimize delays and keep the posse moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran'pa Jef Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's clear: RO I Page 11 - Range Commands & RO II Page 7 - The Course of Fire, everything is said! Nevertheless, a lag time of 3 seconds between "stand by" & "beep" seems to me a bit long as after 2 seconds you might start wondering about that damned beep which is not coming. And then bingo! It comes & you are no longer concentrated... But if it's too short you're not ready... Thus a minimum of 1 sec & a maximum of two seems adequate to me. At least, its what we try to do on the other shore of the Atlantic! If ever the timer is tuned to a 3 sec lag time, I count quickly for myself from 1 to 5 to be ready for the beep! And then... I start collecting misses... Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 All are good points. One of the things that I had noticed was all the times there was a starting line and people just could not remember it. You tell them to give you the line and wait for the standby and beep and they say, "what's my line?" So, I have started lately with "Shooter indicates by saying {whatever the line is}, wait for the standby and then I will give you the beep." Or something to that affect. Especially when I am timing folks who I know, from past history, that they aren't going to remember the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If there's no line I ask does the shooter understand the course of fire? If he indicates yes I ask is the shooter ready.If he/she says no,I tell them to let me know when.If there is a line then the line lets me know they are ready. Only then do I turn my head enough to make sure and yell out standby to get the spotters attention. We use a 2 second delay on our timers.Then the beep. as a couple others pointed out that particular line "shooter know course of fire" has been switched to shooter ready, I couple things I have seen when TO's use that line is shooters including myself will run the stage thru their head again even though they were ready and then other shooters will answer back and verbally tell TO the shooting sequence which delays posse I usually tell shooter if thers a line I say "on your line" then give a stand by command 1 sec pause then beep or if there is no line i say indicate when ready then give a standby 1 sec pause beep stand by is for shooter and spotters so say loud enuff for folks to hear AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I don't like the "do you understand the course of fire" thing. In all my cowboy action shooting travels, I don't hear it very often. Simply, wait for the shooter to give you the line or tell you, they are ready (if no line is being used) Give them the "stand by" command and the beep after about 1 to 2 seconds. The other start I hear is. TO may say "let me know when your ready" and then follow the above info. The official that told you not to say "stand by" prior to the beep is 100% flat wrong! From Oregon to Tennessee and Minnesota to Texas, I've always gotten a "stand by" With out the "stand by" I wouldn't know when the beep is coming? My 2 cents. Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Addressing Branchwater Jack's point, our club prints out the starting line in large font. It is placed in a plastic sheet protector and hung where the shooter can see it from the starting position. This is usually a wire hoop stuck in the ground like a croquet wicket. With this in place, the TO usually says "Say your line when ready" "Stand by" and beep. That's my story and I am sticking to it. Chancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Had an ro nail the buzzer on me with no stand by. I flinched real hard, and thought my god, i've been buzzed. Yanked a pistol out, and stopped, and reholstered. Almost had it cocked, barely stopped in time. Asked for a stand by and was told there's no stand by at this club. I said the rest of the posse got one. So he nailed the buzzer again, no warning! I jumped some, but didn't go for my pistol. On the third take he gave out a sarcastic stand by, and I got a really nice run. The rest of the shoot, i'd go to the loading table when he did, so I'd have a diff ro. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm with the others.............as you get time in you can read the shooter. IOW if I have a top shooter walks up personally I don't want to break his/her focus asking if they are ready. Trust me they ARE ready or the wouldn't be up there. I also can tell you they understand the course of fire at that point as well. So. I try to stay invisible and wait for their line...........if they need something they will ask. On the other hand you get someone up there that's a bit lost, staging the guns in the wrong place, starting in the wrong position etc I will give them more assistance or attention to help them feel relaxed and hopefully get them off to a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 What I do with all shooters is as they come up and settle in, I tell them to give me the line when they are ready. I do this to let them know that I'm ready to time them. Sometimes, they say I don't remember the line, and I tell them to just tell me they are ready. Then it's standy, about a 1 second pause and beep. If I don't remember the line when I go to shoot, I tell the TO that I don't remember the line and the I am ready. Then I expect the standby and beep. I don't want to be distracted going back and forth over the line. I do like having the lines posted where one can see them at the starting position. We do this at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 What Slim said. "When ready say your line" . "I came to see the hanginig!!"..."Stand By".................BEEP Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Give me a "Stand By" before the beep. Or I am not going to start. If you refuse. I will request another RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 There should be a consistent cadence to the saying the line...... Standby.....BEEP for every shooter. A TO shouldn't be trying to trick a shooter into when the timer will go off. By the same token there are shooters which will try to anticipate the BEEP. That is why there is a variance of 1 to 3 seconds after the standby. If you are a shooter and don't care to have someone specific time you, you can adjust your shooting position or if you cannot do that then ask for a different TO when you shoot. The same goes for spotters, you have the right to ask for different spotters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 T.O. getting a shooter ready to start: Just wanted to see how y'all do it... As I was coming along most of the RO's I experienced went like so: "Shooter Ready?" (shooter indicates ready)..."Standby"...<<BEEP>> or (Shooter indicates Ready)..."Standby"...<<BEEP>> Still experience it that way most of the time. So, that's the way I've been doing it. Lately, I was admonished by one club official that after the shooter indicates ready, I shouldn't say a thing. Just <<BEEP>>. (Not just for him, but for everybody) Sounds like someone is in dire need of an RO Course...or refresher...& an attitude adjustment. Saying "Standby" before the beep (whether the shooter uses a line to indicate ready or not) is SOP ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I agree... Say the line.... Stand by.... ....... Beep I've shot under one TO that if you didn't say the line as written he wouldn't start ya.. Childish.. I know but that's the way he done it... Rance Thinkin' we're tryin' ta break him of that and we're gettin there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I don't always remember the line. Some make then to long and to drawn out to try to remember. In that case, I try to say part of it. Or if I can't remember at all. make something up. If that is not good enough for the RO. Then he won't be RO'ing me long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUNICA KID,SASS #68454 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As Cowboy Junky stated most seasoned shootters know the stage an when they walk from the LT they are ready an in their "zone" not wanting to have a small conversation but a stand by an a beep after they indicates they are ready. As CJ stated some shooters need more attention paid to them than others ( enough sg shells in belt etc.) I feel I shoot with some of the great shooters in the game an when they get focused its Game On dealing with different To's is part of the game an being able to stay in yer zone an not be destracted is ONE of the qualitys a TOP shooter has. Truly agree on consistance. Time fer more coffee NK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I should have put in my post but didn't because I didn't want to write a book . I ask the newer shooters and some that seemed confused when the scenario was read do you understand the course of fire.If I'm the one reading the scenario and some have that "what" look or go "huh", I'll go out and hand tap each target in the order of fire. I don't ask 99% of the other shooters that. We have a few members that have shot with us for a couple of years and still have a problem with some even simple sweeps. People tend to over think sweeps and get confused. We don't get 100 shooters per monthly match,usually in the 40 and under count,so adding an extra couple of minutes to a stage to help out some that's unsure doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. I've never had anyone on my posse's make a negative comment about helping someone understand what they're supposed to do.I think I'm safe in guessing we were all at that confusion stage at some point when we started doing this. At our monthly shoots we don't use an LTO...we check each others firearms while we load.For all of the other shooters it's either a line (or make somethng up if you forget it) to indicate ready or I ask if the shooter's ready if there's no line...then STANDBY....2 seconds later the BEEP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Some times shooters come to the line and you can see it in their faces that they are pretty nervous. In those cases, IMHO, having a quick conversation helps. Starting with something like "do you understand the stage", is a good starter to break the ice and get them a bit more relaxed. Giving them assistance through the stage also helps. Most shooters come to the line that are ready old hands and all you have to do is get a word(s) or a nod and a standby followed by a beep 1-2 seconds later. Please be consistent shooter to shooter on the interval between stand by and beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Up in these parts we use Shooter Ready - Stand by --- then the beep. Agree with those that if the shooter doesn't understand the course of fire he should be at the loading table getting briefed - Next shooter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm with the others.............as you get time in you can read the shooter. IOW if I have a top shooter walks up personally I don't want to break his/her focus asking if they are ready. Trust me they ARE ready or the wouldn't be up there. I also can tell you they understand the course of fire at that point as well. So. I try to stay invisible and wait for their line...........if they need something they will ask. On the other hand you get someone up there that's a bit lost, staging the guns in the wrong place, starting in the wrong position etc I will give them more assistance or attention to help them feel relaxed and hopefully get them off to a good start. +1 on what Junky said. Also, I tend to like to have a little fun when I shoot and when I run the timer and folks don't remember the line I tell them to make up their own. You ought to see that smiles I get from that and also the creativity in lines that these shooters give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 +1 on what Junky said. Also, I tend to like to have a little fun when I shoot and when I run the timer and folks don't remember the line I tell them to make up their own. You ought to see that smiles I get from that and also the creativity in lines that these shooters give. I never have trouble with my lines... I have a Duc call for all occassions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Kraut Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I will either say the line (if I remember it) to indicate to the TO that the shooter is ready. However, when there is no line, it's been my experience that the TO will usually say "Shooter Ready" not necesariy with the inflection of a question. It's more like a statement to the spotters and spectators that the shooter is ready, when in fact, that may not be the case. I cannot recall ever having a TO actually ask me the full question "Is the shooter ready?" And not just in this sport but other shooting sports/competitions as well. I've been doing this long enough to know that the TO is asking me if I'm ready, it just doesn't come across as a question a majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Almost reminds me of my days as a track and field official.... Shooter, take your mark. Standby! BEEP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Everywhere I have shot, Colorado, Wyoming, Texas, Nevada, and Arizona it's always been a stand by before the beep. I agree with others that asking if the shooter understands the course of fire in not necessary except in the case of new or obviously confused shooters. In my mind 'shooter ready?' covers that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Hay Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'm all for Shooter says the line.....RO says "Stand by" then 1/2 to 1 sec later BEEP. Only time I hear "Is the shooter ready" or "shooter indicates ready" is in Speed steel or USPSA. NOTE to Match Directors: I really like it when you put up a piece of paper next to the start location with the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 . Only time I hear "Is the shooter ready" or "shooter indicates ready" is in Speed steel or USPSA. NOTE to Match Directors: I really like it when you put up a piece of paper next to the start location with the line. That's exactly the way we do it in SASS. "Is shooter ready" or "Indicate ready by saying the line". We do post the start lines at our club. Good Luck RO I page 11; 2. “Is the Shooter Ready?” is normally the Timer Operator’s initial command and should always be said just before the “Stand By” command. 3. “Indicate Ready by Saying the Line” can optionally be used to cue the competitor to self-start the stage. The “Stand By” command should still be used after the competitor says their line. Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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