1873 Rifle lever safety......Why?

[Waco Jim]

I see quite often, a cowboy shooter using an 1873 rifle with the lever safety removed. The part I'm calling the "Lever Safety" is the spring loaded part located behind the trigger which blocks the pulling of the trigger until the lever is fully closed. With this part removed, the pull of the trigger will cause the hammer to fall reqardless of the position of the lever and possibly allow the rifle to fire out of battery. Why would anyone want to shoot a rifle modified in this manner? There must be a reason since so many are done this way, and I'm just asking for an education on the WHY.

 

Waco Jim

[Pit Bull Tex]

When I bought my 73 it did not have the lever safety.I bought the parts and put it back in.I like it,it makes me feel better.

[Bad Hand]

I shoot both a '66 & '73, neither short stroked, and haven't noticed any difference in them. BTW my Uberti "Burgess" has a safety like the '73.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The faster you can shoot, the more you may need a lever safety, as your timing may drift just that once, and you drop the hammer either early or late, when the round is not fully locked in the chamber. An out-of-battery results, with perhaps gun damage, perhaps face damage, perhaps a bent lever putting the gun out of the match.

 

Perhaps when the 66 was designed, shooters didn't have the expectation of running the rifle fast. We certainly do now. We need it more than ever in Cowboy shooting.

 

They got removed 10 years ago because it was harder to lighten the spring - you had to know how to thin a leaf spring. Now with the coil springs widely available and cheap, it's just dumb (IMHO) to remove the safety.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Yup, as usual GJ has it right. The factory spring that comes on that safety device is much stronger than needed, you have to squeeze the lever pretty tight to fire the gun. So a lot of guys removed the parts. Very bad practice in my opinion. With the lever safety disengaged it is possible to have an out of battery discharge with potentially disastrous results. On the older '73s the only thing that held the firing pin extension to the firing pin was a thin pin about 1/16" in diameter. Under the right circumstances the pin would shear and the extension would exit the gun in the general direction of the shooter's face. The most recent '73s from Uberti have had this part of the design modified.

 

As GJ says, it is simple to replace the safety spring with a much lighter after market spring now, such as is available from The Smith Shop. The safety still functions but does not slow down the shooter.

 

By the way, the lever safety is not some sort of modern lawyer driven requirement. The original 73's had them. With the introduction of the more powerful 44-40 cartridge, Winchester saw the need for the device. The very first '73s did not have it, but it appeared early in the First Model production. I have an original '73 made in 1887 and the lever safety device spring is light enough that I do not notice it is there.

 

Those of us shooting the '66 and Henry rifles have to be careful not to get the sequence out of order, because these rifles are capable of firing out of battery. I was concerned enough that I had Happy Trails install a special safety device in my Henry to keep the firing pin extension in place if I ever screw up.

[largo casey #19191]

I have seen a couple of local fast shooters that did't have the safety installed & had a out of battery fire in the middle of a big match & didn't have a backup rifle.There went the match for them.I always check mine to make sure it is working right.Largo

[Lead Ringer]

GJ is correct. The faster you become with the rifle an out of battery experience is more likely. I've fired my rifle out of battery a few times over a four year period, even with the safety in place. It bent the lever every time. Don't know exactly what caused it?? Worn out safety maybe? Or safety didn't fall back into position??

For my 73's safety in place!

Ringer

[Dubious Don #56333]

Ditto Garrison Joe and Driftwood!

 

Some say that because the 1860/66 rifles didn't have them, this means they are superfluous on the 73's.

 

I know shooters that run their rifles without them, haven't had a mishap.

 

I know shooters who HAVE had mishaps because the lever safety was removed, stuck because of a weak spring or malfunctioning safety.

 

People tinker or remove them because they interfere with the operation. With the heavy original spring, you often have to hold the lever closed; the spring is quite heavy. If you don't, the rifle doesn't fire. For a slower shooter this may not be as noticeable as it is to a fast shooter. This is why they get removed or tinkered with.

 

All of my rifles still have them.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

What Ringer said is spot on.

 

I had a 73 do something weird in a WB match a month or so ago. Still don't know how it happened. I am guessing that the safety got stuck or something. Messed up my day.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

I think the original 60 and 66 did not have this trigger block because they were rimfire guns. The round had to be fully chambered so the pin had some support behind it to crimp the rim enough to set it off. These guns had fairly heavy hammer springs by today standard too. Probably because the rimfire ammo was hard to set off.

By 1873 centerfire ammo was boxer primed and somewhat easier to set off. That combined with the fact that the original 73 did not have a spring loaded firing pin/extention two piece setup like the current Uberti repro. It was all one piece and had no rebounding spring. So, it was somewhat heavy and if you work the lever really fast the firing pin could travel forward with enough inertia to set off the primer. I'm betting that once they discovered this they added the trigger block.

Early on Uberti knew this and added the trigger block to their 66's. But, later dropped it relying on the two piece spring loaded firing pin. but, left it in the 73 because it came with it.

 

BTW I don't have any historical evidence to back this up, It's just SWAG on my part.

[Colt McAllister]

Lever safeties started getting removed when most short stroked guns where made with one piece triggers. That makes the lever safety unusable. Doing this takes all the slop out of the two piece trigger. This also moves the trigger forward allowing smaller hands to get in to position to shoot quicker. Kind of like 66 trigger. I cannot shoot a two piece trigger. I've shot a one piece trigger for 13 years without an out of battery discharge. It's funny, OOB discharges have increased almost 100% since rifle targets have gotten closer and closer. Close rifle targets allow the shooter to run a lot sloppier and still get through the match. With sloppy comes the importance of a lever safety. Closer targets also takes away from the importance of a good action job with a short stroke. A very brief explanation.

[Lead Ringer]

What Ringer said is spot on.

 

I had a 73 do something weird in a WB match a month or so ago. Still don't know how it happened. I am guessing that the safety got stuck or something. Messed up my day.

Hey Jack,

When it happens you can definitely feel it can't ya.

Ringer

[Waco Jim]

Lever safeties started getting removed when most short stroked guns where made with one piece triggers. That makes the lever safety unusable. Doing this takes all the slop out of the two piece trigger. This also moves the trigger forward allowing smaller hands to get in to position to shoot quicker. Kind of like 66 trigger. I cannot shoot a two piece trigger. I've shot a one piece trigger for 13 years without an out of battery discharge. It's funny, OOB discharges have increased almost 100% since rifle targets have gotten closer and closer. Close rifle targets allow the shooter to run a lot sloppier and still get through the match. With sloppy comes the importance of a lever safety. Closer targets also takes away from the importance of a good action job with a short stroke. A very brief explanation.

 

If I'm understanding correctly.......if the two piece trigger is welded to make it a one piece, then the lever safety will not function once that mod is made. It may be that the rifles I've noticed that are missing the lever safety, may have the triggers welded. It's interesting that you say the one piece trigger allows smaller hands to shoot quicker. I need to think on that a bit. I do believe that if I were a gunsmith, I would not remove the lever safety even if the customer wanted it for the simple reason that my insurance agent would have a heart attack if he knew I had done that. This has been an interesting discussion and I appreciate the comments.

 

Waco Jim

[Red River Ray SASS#33254]

Lever safeties started getting removed when most short stroked guns where made with one piece triggers. That makes the lever safety unusable. Doing this takes all the slop out of the two piece trigger. This also moves the trigger forward allowing smaller hands to get in to position to shoot quicker. Kind of like 66 trigger. I cannot shoot a two piece trigger. I've shot a one piece trigger for 13 years without an out of battery discharge. It's funny, OOB discharges have increased almost 100% since rifle targets have gotten closer and closer. Close rifle targets allow the shooter to run a lot sloppier and still get through the match. With sloppy comes the importance of a lever safety. Closer targets also takes away from the importance of a good action job with a short stroke. A very brief explanation.

Amen, 100%

 

 

We set up our match yesterday, 11 yd rifle targets they were standard SASS cowboys. We were shooting SE Regional stages. The first thing I heard was "I sure hope tha rifle targets are not that small an that far out at tha regional". I just shook my head.

 

 

RRR

[Pit Bull Tex]

I post in post 2 that I bought the parts to put the lever safety back in my 73,I also bought the parts to remove the welded trigger and put a 2 piece trigger back in.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

Amen, 100%

 

 

We set up our match yesterday, 11 yd rifle targets they were standard SASS cowboys. We were shooting SE Regional stages. The first thing I heard was "I sure hope tha rifle targets are not that small an that far out at tha regional". I just shook my head.

 

 

RRR

Lol

 

Stan

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Ringer, absolutely!

 

About 5 minutes into the Alabama - Tennessee game, I started to take apart my rifle to see what might have caused my issues. Alabama up 14-0, Roll Tide, and I thought it time to multi-task!

 

It looks like some BP and other gunk was gumming up the safety causing it to not to fully engage. You could yank on the trigger hard enough to make it go boom.

 

So, get that done, but the gun still does no feel right. It also did not explain what happened at Alabama.

 

No joking, I actually found that my trigger was straighter in this gun than the other two. Now I had never actually done anything to this trigger, but it was straight enough that you could put pressure on the trigger and the tip of the trigger would actually be under the lever. Do it just right and you will catch the trigger under the lever, the gun would go off, and lock the action up. To clear, push up on the bottom of the carrier and it will free up the lever.

 

So, I upgraded the profile of the trigger by curving it to match one of my other ones. I also found this trigger to be a bit longer as well. Fixed that as well while I had it out.

 

I know this is not exactly what the OP had in mind, but thought it might be helpful to someone!

[Colt McAllister]

Amen, 100%

 

 

We set up our match yesterday, 11 yd rifle targets they were standard SASS cowboys. We were shooting SE Regional stages. The first thing I heard was "I sure hope tha rifle targets are not that small an that far out at tha regional". I just shook my head.

 

 

RRR

Sorry to hear that Ray. Oh where oh where has the sport gone? I hope everyone feels better about themselves when they get done flailing away at those far and tiny rifle targets.

 

PS: Ray you might need a peep site for your rifle

[Red Cent]

Ahhh, RRR. Time takes its toll. On everything. The pole jumping bar gets higher and higher. Bicycle racers use alien headgear and slick to the air suits. And us cowboys got faster and faster.

 

I always come back to a documented point. What SASS match fills up the quickest in the nation? At least a few years ago. Hope I can make it there sometime.

 

Maybe Santa Fe and RRR can speak to this. When racking the lever in a really easy and fast run, the interaction/window of pulling the trigger at that nano second the lever depresses the safety lever does not always agree. Most racers would prefer to remove the safety.

 

2000. RRR wasn't here yet. Stan, when did you start? Perennial complaint on distant and small targets. Evolution. Ain't it a bear?

 

RRR, remember the rifle targets on the last stage at Charlotte? They were 20-25 yards on that stage a lot of times.

[Griff]

Trigger block safeties were being removed long before short strokes and one-piece triggers. My '73 had it removed in 1987, and re-installed in 2002. It's never been short-stroked or had a one-piece trigger installed. Never had an out-of-battery discharge, but the timing on my particular rifle was such that the cartridge is fully seated BEFORE the lever is all the way up... and I don't hold the trigger back like some do after the gun is short-stroked. I put it back in after I started using the rifle for other things... and wanted it back. Plus, I didn't want the aggravation of havin' to answer stupid questions.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

I started in 2000. Wouldn't ever consider running a 73 without the lever safety.

 

Stan

[Griff]

I started in 2000. Wouldn't ever consider running a 73 without the lever safety.

 

Stan

And a wise decision that would be... my only excuse is that I was young and ...

[Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843]

I bought my first 73 (45 rifle; I shot a 92 44-40 rifle before that) in 1998 at a Dallas gun show. It was stock and I shot it until 2009 when I traded it for a 66 (45C) rifle and bought a used 73 rifle in 45 C that had an action job and was short stroked. I soon noticed it has the lever safety removed and I got worried about out of battery and Lawyers ( "What, you removed the safety?") I ordered the parts with a lighter spring and had a friend reinstall them. I would not be without the lever safety for both of those reasons.

 

Hoss C.

[Abanaki, SASS #34557]

I have done alot of action jobs and installations of short stroke kits in 73 winchesters and Henrys and 66's. I will never remove a safety from a lever on a 73 and recommend that customers use a 73 if they want to short stroke for just that reason. You don't need that safety when everything works alright but something will eventually mess up and that safety could save a shooter from a real problem. Also with the way people can be sued for anything nowadays you will not find me removing any factory safety devise from any firearm I work on.

[Colt McAllister]

I have done alot of action jobs and installations of short stroke kits in 73 winchesters and Henrys and 66's. I will never remove a safety from a lever on a 73 and recommend that customers use a 73 if they want to short stroke for just that reason. You don't need that safety when everything works alright but something will eventually mess up and that safety could save a shooter from a real problem. Also with the way people can be sued for anything nowadays you will not find me removing any factory safety devise from any firearm I work on.

 

Make sure you keep all those triggers at 4 lbs and above or the lawyers will get you for that as well.

[Cowboy Junky]

I have shot both.......and for me I use the lever safety because I can shoot faster with one..........not for OOB issues.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I think lever safety's are a good thing.

 

 

But.

 

I also don't know why some worry so much about what others are shooting.

[N.Easyrider]

Question on the 4 lb trigger pull mentioned in reply 25 by Colt McCallister.

I didn't know that. Is that a CAS restriction or where does that come from?

Thanks.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Question on the 4 lb trigger pull mentioned in reply 25 by Colt McCallister.

I didn't know that. Is that a CAS restriction or where does that come from?

Thanks.

It's called sarcasm.

[No Horse Hair, SASS #77464]

This subject came up a few years back and a cowboy/gunsmith presented the opinion that it was also possible to cause out of battery discharge by pulling the trigger as you are opening the lever. I think this explained an oob incident I had with a 66. I haven't experimented with a 73 , but would it be possible for it to happen?

[Blackey Cole]

Before some figure better ways to modify or replace the part it was just easier to remove it, no there wire spring replacements that work but doesn't require the force to close the lever that the original spring required. That why they were remove it took effort to close the lever completely and the effort that it took slowed down the process of working the action fully on a 73. Anything that slowed the process down was removed if possible now we know how to replace it and still have the function of the safety without effort.

[Purly SASS # 57438]

An out of battery can happen with or without the safety.

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

Having been the recipient of an out-of-battery discharge, I can state without reservation that a lever safety is a must have feature. The faster you go, the more likely an OOB is to occur and the more necessary a lever safety becomes. Jim Bowie at Cowboy & Indian Store will no longer remove the safety if asked. He will lighten up the spring to normal weight, but the safety stays functional. Can't argue with that......

[Rancho Roy]

Old thread I know...but an OOB can happen by a cartridge having a "ring" of some sort that doesn't allow it to seat completely and the weight of the firing pin follower can exhibit enough inertia to hit the primer hard enough to fire the round.

 

There are a couple of YouTube videos showing this.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Old thread I know...but an OOB can happen by a cartridge having a "ring" of some sort that doesn't allow it to seat completely and the weight of the firing pin follower can exhibit enough inertia to hit the primer hard enough to fire the round.

 

There are a couple of YouTube videos showing this.

Sure, there are OTHER ways an OOB can occur. That was not what the original post was all about.

 

The lever safety being installed and operational does not equal 100% protection. But it offers plenty of protection for what little it affects the other operations of the gun. Leave it installed and test that it is working, my recommendation.

 

Good luck, GJ