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Jacked round from the rifle mid-string of fire


Rootin Tootin

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There are many wise men out there much wiser than me, since I'm a wise guy, that can help me with this question.

 

When shooting your rifle, if you jack a live round, what is required? Must the round be replaced by loading another from your body, on the clock to complete the string of fire, or can you just take the jacked round as a miss without any other penalty, except the 5 seconds assed for the miss at the end of the string of fire on the last target?

 

I saw this happen at a match were the shooter just took the jacked round as a miss and moved on to the next gun. When I asked him about it later he answered that the time lost jacking the live round as well as the time taken to load a fresh round from his body was more than 5 seconds so he decided to just take the jacked round as a miss as if he had only loaded 9 rounds instead of ten and was assed a miss on the last target.

 

What's the answer???? Now I've seen it both ways; loading on the clock to complete the string of fire or taking it as a miss on the last target in the string of fire.

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If you know how long it takes for you to reload, you can make an intelligent decision.

 

If it takes more than 5 seconds, you may as well just take the miss - unless your goal is for a clean match. Then you may want to sacrifice the time and stay clean.

 

So practice some reloading and the clock and see where you fall. You may become fast enough to save a second or so rather than take the miss. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

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Page 23, RO1:

5-SECOND PENALTIES
• Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A “miss” is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm. Target placement should always allow a shooter the opportunity for a clean miss to be scored without argument. Overlapping targets of the same type should be avoided if at all possible and should not cause a Procedural “trap” by making it difficult to determine the shooter’s intent when engaging the targets.
• Each missed target.
• Each unfired round.
• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.
• Each target hit with “illegally acquired” ammunition.
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so Buck,

 

are you saying a total of 10 sec, 5 for missing the target and another 5 sec for an unfired round?

 

I'm not sure how to read your reply

 

cr

It's only 5 seconds for the unfired round. The unfired round cannot result in a miss as it was not fired at a target.

 

Fillmore

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Jack out a round...

 

John Wayne, still got a bad guy out there reload and get him!

 

Competitive Joe, more important to win, take the miss.

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Just to add a little spice to the pot...

 

Let's say you had ten rifle targets in a row, and the stage instructions were to put one round on each in a great big long left to right sweep.

 

You hit targets 1, 2, 3, 4 but jack out round number 5. You decide it would take too long to reload so you just keep shooting.

 

So now do you put your sixth round on target number 5 and complete the sweep, ending up on target #9 and leaving target #10 untouched?

 

Or do you skip target #5 which should have been hit with the ejected round, and shoot targets 6 through 10?

 

Is it shooter's choice or does it make a difference in scoring?

 

Another way to ask the question is, Is each round dedicated to a particular target before firing the string?

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Just to add a little spice to the pot...

 

Let's say you had ten rifle targets in a row, and the stage instructions were to put one round on each in a great big long left to right sweep.

 

You hit targets 1, 2, 3, 4 but jack out round number 5. You decide it would take too long to reload so you just keep shooting.

 

So now do you put your sixth round on target number 5 and complete the sweep, ending up on target #9 and leaving target #10 untouched?

 

 

 

Or do you skip target #5 which should have been hit with the ejected round, and shoot targets 6 through 10?

 

Is it shooter's choice or does it make a difference in scoring?

 

Another way to ask the question is, Is each round dedicated to a particular target before firing the string?

see post#9 above
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So now do you put your sixth round on target number 5 and complete the sweep, ending up on target #9 and leaving target #10 untouched?

Yes

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Here is the meat from the link that does not work for you...


Shooter’s Choice – Replacing Ejected / Defective Rounds

 

PaleWolf Brunelle, SASS #2495


A shooter who ejects a rifle round in the middle of a shooting string has FOUR choices: 1) Re-engage same target; then reload at the end of the string for the last target = No Penalty 2) Re-engage same target w/NO reload = Miss for the ejected (unfired) round 3) Skip to next target w/NO reload = Miss 4) Skip to next target w/reload/return to re-engage skipped target = Procedural


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At a SASS State Championship match this is the exact situation that happened to me:


Let's say you had ten rifle targets in a row, and the stage instructions were to put one round on each in a great big long left to right sweep.

 

You hit targets 1, 2, 3, 4 but jack out round number 5. You decide it would take too long to reload so you just keep shooting.

 

So now do you put your sixth round on target number 5 and complete the sweep, ending up on target #9 and leaving target #10 untouched?

 



I completed the string as per PWB option (2):

Shooter’s Choice – Replacing Ejected / Defective Rounds

 

PaleWolf Brunelle, SASS #2495


A shooter who ejects a rifle round in the middle of a shooting string has FOUR choices: 1) Re-engage same target; then reload at the end of the string for the last target = No Penalty 2) Re-engage same target w/NO reload = Miss for the ejected (unfired) round 3) Skip to next target w/NO reload = Miss 4) Skip to next target w/reload/return to re-engage skipped target = Procedural



but, in addition to the miss for the ejected round, I was assessed a Procedural for not sending a round downrange at target #10. I was told later that if I had pointed the rifle at target #10 and pulled the trigger, resulting in a “click”, I would NOT have received a Procedural since I would then have attempted to engage each target, however, from PWB’s 4 scenarios it sounds like target #10 could be skipped and still only receive a miss for the ejected (unfired) round (no Procedural).

 



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Usually what happens to me is I take 7 seconds to reload and then still miss the target.

 

I resemble that remark.

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Jack out a round...

 

John Wayne, still got a bad guy out there reload and get him!

 

Competitive Joe, more important to win, take the miss.

Close but competitive Joe will practice those reloads and can do them in 1.5 - 3 seconds all day long getting "some" time back..........lol. I use to always take the miss but then I started re-loading. In the beginning it cost me no doubt but now I gain time 95 time out of 100 so it worth the effort.

 

If you really want to get good a reloads shoot a bad rifle for a few years.........works like a champ.

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At a SASS State Championship match this is the exact situation that happened to me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completed the string as per PWB option (2):

 

 

 

 

but, in addition to the miss for the ejected round, I was assessed a Procedural for not sending a round downrange at target #10. I was told later that if I had pointed the rifle at target #10 and pulled the trigger, resulting in a “click”, I would NOT have received a Procedural since I would then have attempted to engage each target, however, from PWB’s 4 scenarios it sounds like target #10 could be skipped and still only receive a miss for the ejected (unfired) round (no Procedural).

 

 

 

 

 

Gus,

 

The question I might would have asked is this...What would the TO's call have been if you miscounted and only shot 9 out of the rifle, put it down, and moved on?

 

Most all of us would agree that the correct answer would be a miss for the unfired round and a Minor Safety for the round left on the carrier. You do not tack on a procedural on top of that for not engaging the 10th target with the round that is still in the gun.

 

The same logic applies to the case here on ejected rounds.

 

Again...from the quoted source in post #9 from PWB:

 

FIVE SECOND PENALTIES

Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm.

A "miss" is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm.

• Each missed target.

Each unfired round.

• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.

• Each target hit with "illegally acquired" ammunition.

 

To help understand this concept, a "MISS FLOW CHART" is found in Appendix C. It is also good to understand "A MISS CANNOT CAUSE A PROCEDURAL."

 

RO1 - Penalty Overview

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next re-loading question.....over the top, or thru the gate? I shoot a 66, and usually re-load thru the gate. When I practice, I think its faster over the top, but I find i'm much more prone to fumbling. I can't decide if I want to just confine my practice to thru the gate, or is over the top worth the trouble? (and I aint never gonna be driving the Caddy, so shaving .00001 seconds aint that important). and if you go over the top, do you stick it in the chamber or drop it on the carrier?

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I use to skip the reload when I jacked one out. Even at monthly matches. But then was told you will NEVER get good at it

unless you START DOING IT.

So from then on I started doing the reload no matter how long it took.

Got better.

Can now do them pretty much all the time under the 5 seconds of the miss.

 

Never pass up the chance to get in good practice on the clock at monthly's by doing things like this.

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next re-loading question.....over the top, or thru the gate? I shoot a 66, and usually re-load thru the gate. When I practice, I think its faster over the top, but I find i'm much more prone to fumbling. I can't decide if I want to just confine my practice to thru the gate, or is over the top worth the trouble? (and I aint never gonna be driving the Caddy, so shaving .00001 seconds aint that important). and if you go over the top, do you stick it in the chamber or drop it on the carrier?

Loading thru the gate with the off hand is fast and more reliable than dropping a round on the carrier.

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I can usually get a reload off in 1.5-1.8 seconds. I practice it. A lot! Not just because I have a bad habit of jacking a live one out but because you see a reload written into a stage often. Its a skill I recommend practicing and using a timer when you do to find out which way is the fastest for you.

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I am really slow loading in the gate with my right hand or left.If your carrier is the right height and you file the corners then loading over the top will save you a lot of time.I can load over the top and save 2 1/2 to 3 sec. every time.If when you open the lever and place a dummy round on the carrier and push it down the round should be in line with the chamber.Some carriers are down to low,not much but they don't load over the top as well as one that is lined up.I have two 73s that will load over the top and never have a hic-up.When I close my lever my carrier is level with the bottom on the frame.Some rifles the carriers are a little lower than the frame.If you load through the gate and over the top in the same amount of time,it is fast to load over the top because all you do is close the lever and fire,but loading thought the gate you have to open and close and fire.Just my penny's worth.

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Interesting, when the perfect answer is given early in the post string and you get multiple pages of other responses.

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Why do we do this?

 

Usually because we confuse the sequence.

 

It is lever, trigger, lever, trigger.... :D

And THATS why we have the old timers - to teach us the secrets. ;)

 

CR

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