EE Taft Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I walked into Wally world's sporting good counter today and asked if there was anything stock in .38 special ammo with a RNFP...... .....The old man at the counter shrugged his shoulders and the young guy said "That's kinda a dumb question. There's no such thing as a RNFP in a .38 special!" I politely said, "I beg to differ." The young guy said...."No such thing....IF you bring one in and show me I'll buy you the biggest steak in town, but I've been reloading for years and never seen one." I'm new to .38/.357 as I'm setting my boys up for shooting. While I think a wad cutter type bullet might be better, I wanted to weigh the options through test firing several different loads. While I am somewhat inexperienced with the .38s I'm smart enough to know they are around and can be had in RNFP....... Soooo.....The question......Is the RNFP .38 unique to CAS? have they just recently been introduced to the market......or was this Wally world expert really outta touch with his field of knowledge? I politely walked away from the gun counter with a grin on my face. ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I might have walked away from the gun counter and over to the manager and suggested that the young man needed some customer service training for the "dumb question" remark. That's if I would have been able to maintain my cool with the boy long enough to walk away. Enjoy your steak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ask all your cas friends to bring in one RNFP 38 caliber bullet. You should get 3, 4, 5 or more different configurations in RNFP. Take one of each then ask the young sales boy if each one is good for a free steak. One will do! ---------------- Now...."While I think a wad cutter type bullet might be better,...." Wad cutters will do fine in revolvers but the shoulder will cause feeding problems in the lever rifles we use. They will feed if you take your time levering. We in cas however are running these guns as fast as we can and anything that causes a slight bump, hick-up or double stroke the lever to get the next round in the chamber will slow you down and eventually cause severe frustration. Using wad cutter & semi wad cutters bullets will soon be vacated for RNFP or Truncated Cone bullets in the cas game. But EE Taft, I think you know all this. CH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well ..... Yes, the RNFP is new to the .38 cartridge. Only been around for, oh, well forever. Most common commercial loading is either a plain round nose or wadcutters for the bulls eye target croud. I'd get a round from a friend and collect on that steak. For beginners though, I'd suggest wadcutters. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 first on Google's list: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/6-0308125 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I was sure i'd seen and even shot......oh I don't know.....thousands of RNFP .38s.......The guy said "I've been reloading for years and never seen one. If you show me one I'll buy you the biggest steak in town!" I thought,...."Ok, I've always called 'em RNFP, but maybe there is a different name for them........" Then I doubted my train of thought, smiled and walked away. My boy said "Dad, i thought all cowboy loads were available in RNFP!?"......I said, "I'm pretty sure they are, son......" I think I will get a few samples together and go collect on that steak. Now to the next question......Does anyone know of a RNFP production round that might be available outside the CAS products market? I ask this because CAS type ammo is not readily available in our area. Maybe something from Winchester or federal that is suitable? I'm thinking of trying to start them on 125gr RNFP, but looking for some easy to find sample rounds......Maybe in those ute little 20 or 25 round boxes. Cliff, I had the general idea without yet owning a .38/.357 rifle, but your post sure confirmed my fears of the wadcutter being finicky in a rifle. I'm sure someone has found good ways to make it work......but I'm sure my luck on that matter would not go so well.....I want to start them with no bobbles so as to keep them from getting frustrated and walking away from the sport! Ya know how kids can be. Right now they are ready to go!!! I'm slowly but surely building up the guns they need thanks to some very kind Pards here bouts. Hmmmmm.........I wonder how I want my steak cooked?........I'm thinkin' med. Rare! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh....I do have another question that I think I already know the answer to...... The standard round nose .38s (or any round nose for that matter) are not desired in SASS and other steel target matches due to unpredictability of where the spent lead might end up.......Am I right in thinking this way? and.......does anyone see a major problem in shooting the round noses through CAS pistols into paper or just plinking while teaching my boys the handling of the guns? Hey......38s are a new critter to me.......better to ask and know than to think I know and mess up! The point of all this is to experiment with different size lead for the boys to find their most comfortable round. We'll all been through that......haven't we? ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 EE, Rare and SUPERSIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Howdy EE: print off this add at this URL: Enjoy the steak. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/478474/ten-x-cowboy-ammunition-38-special-130-grain-lead-round-nose-flat-point-bpc-box-of-50 Don't feel bad, I had one of these Jr geniuses tell me that there is no such thing as a tornado brush for a rifle - had one in my hand. Some clerks haven't been around the block it would appear and they are still wet behind their ears. STL Suomi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh....I do have another question that I think I already know the answer to...... The standard round nose .38s (or any round nose for that matter) are not desired in SASS and other steel target matches due to unpredictability of where the spent lead might end up.......Am I right in thinking this way? and.......does anyone see a major problem in shooting the round noses through CAS pistols into paper or just plinking while teaching my boys the handling of the guns? Hey......38s are a new critter to me.......better to ask and know than to think I know and mess up! The point of all this is to experiment with different size lead for the boys to find their most comfortable round. We'll all been through that......haven't we? ~EE Taft~ Howdy EET If you are talking about RN jacketed it has more to do with damage to the steel target and ricochets off of imperfections in weird directions. I have shot literally thousands of jacketed RN into paper for practice over the years. Make a decent cutout for scoring purposes. Generally cheap too. They are also a popular round for teaching in CCW classes due to cost and (relatively) low recoil. The ones I see the most are 125's or so IIRC. RN lead are a popular bullet in CAS (and other groups) - available from many vendors as complete cartridges or bullets for reloading. Most of the ones I have seen do have a flat point but that is probably a personal preference by the shooters. As a matter of fact my IDPA loads are 124gr RN in a 9mm. I was given the bullets by a friend and loaded em up to try and they work fine. Shoot em out a Glock 17 & 19 with Wolf barrels - no problems. All the best Gateway Kid BTW enjoy that steak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Round nose bullets aren't used in CAS due to the hightened possibility of detonating a primer in a lever gun tube magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Just keep in mind that not all .38/.357 rifles like shooting .38s. While some have no issues others are finiky about the overall length. When I started CAS .357 brass was hard to come by so I had to modify my mould to make the bullets slightly longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ahhhh....That makes sense......Learn something new everyday! I assumed the lead round nose (without the flat point) would cause a concern for the lead flying in the wrong direction on impact. I've always used flat point in my .45s so this is all assumption...... After talking with this "expert" today I believe I will limit my shopping for a few good loads to the suppliers that are in the know and my advice seeking to those here on the Wire/Saloon. It rubbed me the wrong way that this happened, but the more I think on it the more I laugh! Oh well! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I had a man who had been in business for years and claimed to be an expert on SAAs tell me that Colt never made one in 5 1/2"...while he had three in his display case and I had cash in my hand. I walked away and it took me less than a week to find another one at a competitor of his about three blocks away...for $20.00 less money. As far as I know he's still in business over 30 years later...but I have no idea how nor why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 As a commercial reloader for cas shooters, my first question would be, "What make and model rifle do you plan to shoot these rounds in?" ----------- The 38/357 rifles tend to be length sensitive but some can be over come by loading 38spl cases with 125TC or other bullets long to about 1.54". 125TC bullets load in the lube groove usually take care of these feeding problems. (Marlin rifles) Or use 357 cases. ----------- If you can't find ammunition locally, I can usually come up with new brass to make up rounds. Send me an e-mail and I can explain how to do this and save money. CH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hey EE http://www.cowboybullets.com/Products.html#38Cal Look here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I walked into Wally world's sporting good counter today and asked if there was anything stock in .38 special ammo with a RNFP...... .....The old man at the counter shrugged his shoulders and the young guy said "That's kinda a dumb question. There's no such thing as a RNFP in a .38 special!" I politely said, "I beg to differ." The young guy said...."No such thing....IF you bring one in and show me I'll buy you the biggest steak in town, but I've been reloading for years and never seen one."... Hi EE, This makes me so mad. How dare he talk to a customer like that, especially in front of his child. Please find time to write the manager a letter with the date, time, and these details. If you are really feeling feisty, ask when you can meet him (the manager) and the "young guy" to collect on your steak dinner. If you go back, let us know what happens. Regards, Allie Mo PS I use DEWC in my pistols and truncated cone in my rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Rose, SASS #45478 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Drive on down to Wright City and I will set you up with rnfp and tc bullets that will feed in any 38 rifle. Plan on spending the day and I will let you shoot a couple hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Jackson Rose, I'm waitin' on the time when I get that pretty gun rig done for ya......Then I'll deliver it while there! Allie Mo, Customer service has just gone to crap these days! I'd never talk to a customer like that and very seldom buy from anyone that does things like this........I plan on going in with a few samples for the gent to prove him wrong......then relieveing him of his steak duty!......I'll tell him if he really must buy me a steak then I'll let him, but I'd rather have the satisfaction of having him feel foolish and leave it at that!.........Besides, the best steak in town is one cooked by me! What ever happened to "the customer is always right"?........Even when a customer asks me a questionable question ( ) I try to take the high road so that both the customer and myself come out feeling like we learned something....and both were respected......without customer respect a business has nothing. Customers do need to learn as much as possible about the product they are buying, especially if it's new to them and a dangerous item. There is however, a line that gets crossed when a sales agent for said company argues with a customer and treats the customer disrespectfully.............I'd never do it....and I'd never allow anyone under my direction to do it. ....But unfortunatly it happens. As I've said recently...it's a changing world we live in. Well,.......I must admit, I don't reload.........yet.......But will be getting started on it very soon! I have a guy locally that has offered to load up a few and a very nice Pard that PMed me and offered 1k pieces of brass! (Thank ya, Pard!) My reload guy has taught me quite a bit of the reloading process and is very willing to help me out as I learn......I have went from one shooter in the house to three.......possibly four!......Mama thinks she wants to start shooting too! I think she just needs a little push over the edge! I will be getting set up with reloading equipment as I can and until then I can have the local guy take care of us. ........Reloading.........Another hobby that Mama says will drain our checking account! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Customer service, here's my favorite story, pardon the language... I was maybe 19 or 20 at the time, my grandfather had died and left me a couple thousand bucks, and with what I had saved I had enough to buy a new truck, well, a new small truck. I went into the Datsun (now nissan) dealership and a salesman asked what I wanted, told him what I was interested in, and that I wanted to drive one. He says to me, and I quote "Are you really serious or are you just jerking yourself off" I told him rather loudly that I had cash to spend and he would never get it and walked out. The next day I bought a Mazda at the dealership across the street, first place I drove it was back over to the Datsun dealership waving at that sorry excuse for a car salesman. That Mazda was a great little truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 I spent 14 years selling equipment and ATVs........the last thing a customer wants is to be talked into something else instead of what they want! My boss man's brother always said "Try to pust this on or that one"........I finally said "I don't do that, Pardner!" The customer gets what they want.....no matter what it take or how much harder you have to work! That's what you're there for.....that is if you're the salesman. The last thing I do with a customer is cuss or otherwise disrespect that customer. I had a guy one day come in to the dealership and ask for me for a tractor......just a utility tractor for lawn and property work....I was busy so I turned him over to a new guy.....He pulled the whole "This one here is the sh!t, you really need this F#&^@%9 thing!........Turned out this gent was a pastor for one of the local churchs (I knew this) and was very offended and walked away after about five minutes. I made the call to apoligize to him and regained his business........the new guy didn't last long. That was the first time and the last that I fired anyone.......I fear that in todays employee pool I might fire 40% of them before I even hire them! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yup, I hear ya. I only ever let one guy go, it needed to be done but I still felt like crap doing it. Been in on the decisions for several others, but at least I didn't have to be the one delivering the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rusty Bore SASS#22739 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Now EE yer forgettin your pards here in the Saloon (ACS)! We like steak too! Now just where was this Walmart? I've got 50 rounds of RNFP and I'm buying steaks for the Saloon ACS)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Howdy EE: print off this add at this URL: Enjoy the steak. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/478474/ten-x-cowboy-ammunition-38-special-130-grain-lead-round-nose-flat-point-bpc-box-of-50 Don't feel bad, I had one of these Jr geniuses tell me that there is no such thing as a tornado brush for a rifle - had one in my hand. Some clerks haven't been around the block it would appear and they are still wet behind their ears. STL Suomi Did you know Ruger never made a .41 Magnum? I had a higher form of life tell me so. I went to the truck, dumped 5 rounds out of my Blackhawk and returned with the tangible proof. His comment? "It must have been a special order cause I've never seen one before". I gave up. "Ya can't fix stupid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'da pulled the ammo wallet out of my back pocket, opened it and asked if that was good for eighteen steak dinners. But that's just me. Going and finding the manager makes much more sense. "I don't appreciate your clerk telling me I'm an idiot". Don't even matter if I am an idiot. Clerk ain't supposed to say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 hehehe......I had to be easy on the guy..........his ignorance surpassed most! My ignorance is right out on my sleeve most times, but when I'm right I just smile and wave.......then come back to bite them in the arse later! ......I'm gonna go back in a find this feller one day soon and show him an example of this mystery round he says does not exsist. I just couldn't help but laugh to think this is probably one of the most common rounds available.....had it of been something really out there I could understand, but.....C'mon! Anymore I don't get too bent.....stupidity is rampant! Ya either laugh it off or spend life bein' grumpy at all of 'em. I don't think I could handle the high blood pressure of bein' grumpy too much. ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Outlaw Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I have to agree, there is NO excuse for that kind of behavior on the part of the salesperson. On the flip side, if you want to have some fun, ask to speak with a manager when you have received particularly good service. The manager walks up expecting to get a complaint and instead one of his/her employees gets complimented. Its great to see the expression on the manager's face when you do that. My better half and I have done that numerous times and it is still fun to do. It doesn't do the employee any harm to get a few strokes either. OO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 I've done that before. The guy helping you gets all nervious when you say "I want to speak to your manager!".....Then tell the manager he needs to give the employee a raise!....... I've had it happen to me more times than I can remember. I got to the point that when they ask to speak with the bossman I just smile and say "Sure, let me get him for ya!" .........Boy, it sure was nice workin' fer those guys!........On a different note......We are having a get together with the bossman and the other employees this weekend for the dealership that I worked for......We don't see each other everyday anymore, but That hasn't stopped us from staying in touch......Great bunch of folks! .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Stone Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Someone earlier said round nose lead bullets were not used for safety reasons. I have never heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I loved it when i was told ford never made a full size ranger. I politely led the lady to the service manual s where there was a whole section on full sized rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 ........Reloading.........Another hobby that Mama says will drain our checking account! ~EE Taft~ Buying ammo will drain it a lot quicker. Trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Someone earlier said round nose lead bullets were not used for safety reasons. I have never heard that before. Well......I ASKED that.......didn't say that. I was just curious if they posed a bigger risk of uncontrolled splater or ricochet off of the target that might send the spent lead in another direction........But I don't know this......it's just ASSumption.......and you know what they say about ASSumptions! As I said before, I tend to wear any ignorance I have out on my sleeve........it's the only way for one to learn anything. If I thought I was always right........I'd be just like the salesman I ran into! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Buying ammo will drain it a lot quicker. Trust me. Oh I know.......i have mine reloaded by a guy that enjoys reloading.....if that tells you anything. Now he's gonna show me the ropes (What I don't already know) to get into it myself........I ain't bought a new box of ammo in years! I do believe I will enjoy reloading as a passtime and that it will keep the cost down. I just gotta get the equipment! ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee Charlie Regulator #4967 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I just have to get in this and tell my story. I too was a salesman for 29 years and I never once lied to a customer because I knew I had to face him again next week. My story was about a new Ford Bronco I bought back in 1988 and two days after I bought it I left to go to Kansas on a Pheasant hunting trip. The cassette player some how got screwed up on the trip and all I had was tapes that I had made myself from other tapes. When I took the vehicle into the Ford place in Gainesville the service manager looked at it and immediately assessed my problem. He said, and I quote,"No wonder your cassette player won't work. Ford motor co. designed these cassette players to only play commercially manufactured tapes." I went straight to the front office and told the owner that he needed to fire his service manager because he was a complete idiot. A month later I had to take the Bronco in for a problem with the warn hubs and guess what? The service manager was no longer with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 CC, to defense of the facts only, I have run into tape decks that would only play commercially manufactured tapes. The trick is this....the home recorded tapes had two squares cut out of the top edge of the tape......if they were hollow they wouldn't play.....if they had a filler block they would play... We use to put tape over the holes in the top and then the lock (or what ever it was called) in the tape player would be fooled into thinking it was a commercial tape......It's hard to explain, but having recorded my own music for years at home I like to listen to my stuff going down the road or at home and used a lot of these tapes.....back when tapes were the "in thing".......Now I feel really old......I even own a lot of old vinyl! Yup, I ain't no spring chicken anymore! I will NOT give a defense for this so called service managers attitude.......That's not the way you treat customers. If this tape deck in this Bronco was set up like this he should have professionally assisted you in learning the "ins and outs" of the system. I hate those guys that tell a customer "It won't work!" but then do not explain in a polite and professional mannor the reason behind their logic.......It's just not good for the business they work for. ........Now, considering the year of the Bronco was 88 or older, there's a fair chance that he was wrong.......in this case he was just being an arse! I don't think the commercial interlock on tapedecks in cars were around that early, but maybe someone more in the know can chime in and let us both know for sure. BTW, how ya been feelin', Amigo? ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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