Dirty Mike Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Some advice please, What was the one thing that made the biggest duffernce in improving your times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 SxS shotgun practice in the basement.. dryfirin'.. one long winter.. Rance Thinkin' it took the most off my overall times... Oh yeah... I was doin' it with a par timer.. otherwise I don't know if I'm gettin' any better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Learning good shotgun technique hands down. Thank you Deuce Stevens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Drilling in the fundamentals. Lots of stuff on my web site. http://www.jspublications.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Pract....................Prac......................Pract...................Pra......................Can't even bring myself to say it. It's the dreaded "P" word. Worked wonders for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I guess for me it was a combination of a lot of little things. But im fairly new ive only shot nine matches over the year and a half ive been in sass. First use the same revolvers to get used to them. Don't be hasty to jump ship to try something new give it a fair try. I played around with where i placed my holsters and how i wore them. Cross draw strong side. More foreword, farther back, higher or lower. Then again consistently wear it there. For me gunfighter is faster most of the time. WeakThumb cocking faster is negated by having to draw and holster in between guns Shotgun speed that was helped the most was watch duece's videos he gives you a lot of good pointers. I just started reloading so we'll see if shooting something other than factory loaded 158 grns will help it any Just my thoughts. For me it has cut my times literally in half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Getting the 2row load to be consistent and transitions, transitions moreso than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't attribute the progress I've made to a single factor, but I can relate what I view as the primary factors: 1. Top shooters (including World Champions) watching me shoot and coaching me on the proper techniques. 2. Lots of practice on transitions (dry fire). 3. Shotgun load and reload practice (dry fire). For me dry fire practice is more about striving for perfect technique, not speed, with a few notable exceptions. If you get the correct techniques ingrained, speed will follow. If you strive for speed to early you will end up picking up bad techniques which will limit you in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Rick, SASS#84292 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Attending the Dooley Gang seminar at Sparta last year. Having the opportunity to have some one on one time with Cowboy Carty. Dry firing as much as I can and accual practice when I can. Being left handed I have a problem staging guns and then moving left like a right handed shooter does. With help from my friends I have finally figured out how to stage, pick up and set the guns down correctly so I don't get in my own way. Accepting a few misses when I shot fast. I know the misses will go away when I get better at it. Shot fast miss fast!! Whiskey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Going to the free Dooley School at the US Open a few years ago. Mainly how to unholster my weak side pistol and getting shotgun to my shoulder asap and keeping it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't attribute the progress I've made to a single factor, but I can relate what I view as the primary factors: 1. Top shooters (including World Champions) watching me shoot and coaching me on the proper techniques. 2. Lots of practice on transitions (dry fire). 3. Shotgun load and reload practice (dry fire). For me dry fire practice is more about striving for perfect technique, not speed, with a few notable exceptions. If you get the correct techniques ingrained, speed will follow. If you strive for speed to early you will end up picking up bad techniques which will limit you in the long run. Actually, speed is easier to learn first. If you want to go fast, you have to shoot fast. You have to practice shooting fast. Misses be damned. Full speed ahead! Your eyes will eventually catch up and the misses will stop, but the speed will still be there. That said, if your fundamentals aren't solid, you'll create some bad habits. Shoot fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi Doc! You're way to good of a shooter, with way to much experience for me to be comfortable disagreeing with you on this, so the following statement is meant as a clarification only. I wasn't advocating not shooting fast, merely suggesting that during dry fire I initially focused primarily on proper technique, not speed. I wanted to get the techniques into muscle memory so when I actually shot I wouldn't have to think about it. When I'm actually shooting a stage I don't think about much at all, at least not consciously. Based on advice from Dirt Merchant I do periodically consciously come to the line with the intent of pushing myself beyond my current limits. Raw times go down, misses go up, but as you said adaptation occurs and the misses begin to decline. I then try to stabilize at the newer speed, then do it again later. I'm happy with the results so far, but admittedly I don't really have a meaningful yardstick to measure my progress against. I know the top shooters around here average about 3+ seconds per stage faster than me, but I don't know how other 1+ year shooters are doing compared to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Watching Evil Roy's DVDs. Several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi Doc! You're way to good of a shooter, with way to much experience for me to be comfortable disagreeing with you on this, so the following statement is meant as a clarification only. I wasn't advocating not shooting fast, merely suggesting that during dry fire I initially focused primarily on proper technique, not speed. I wanted to get the techniques into muscle memory so when I actually shot I wouldn't have to think about it. When I'm actually shooting a stage I don't think about much at all, at least not consciously. Based on advice from Dirt Merchant I do periodically consciously come to the line with the intent of pushing myself beyond my current limits. Raw times go down, misses go up, but as you said adaptation occurs and the misses begin to decline. I then try to stabilize at the newer speed, then do it again later. I'm happy with the results so far, but admittedly I don't really have a meaningful yardstick to measure my progress against. I know the top shooters around here average about 3+ seconds per stage faster than me, but I don't know how other 1+ year shooters are doing compared to me. Start a journal so you can track progress. After a stage, note approximate layout, times, what went right, what you need to work on, time, etc. Next time you go practice, you'll have the log so you know what needs addressing. Don't practice the stuff you're good at. Practice the stuff you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I know, a spelling contest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I keep a written and video journal. Just finishing up practicing with a focus on SG, next up faster movement between stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I don't claim to be fast, just to be somebody who is trying to improve each match, but in addition to everything mentioned in this thread, I suggest you focus on your slowest gun until it becomes a strength. I also suggest that in addition to watching Doc Shapiro's videos (I really wish he would republish his book--Barnes and Noble have books they only publish for their Nooks to keep the costs down), the Evil Roy video on gun handling and transitions and Long Hunter's outstanding tips, you really should buy and read Brian Enos' book Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. Enos isn't a cowboy shooter, but his chapters on the mental aspects of shooting fast are excellent. What we do is more of a standing Zen meditation than most of us realize. Ask the good shooters where you live for tips. Consider each tip and adapt what you are told to your own style. If you can afford it go to a shooter clinic put on by one of the top trainers. Finally, I will give you the same advice Phantom gave me here on the wire. Go out and shoot. Nothing beats putting bullets down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 What's the one thing that made better???????? Being taught by T-Bone Dooley and Nuttin'Graceful ! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Having a coach to insure bad habits are not part of your practice. See article in the chronicle, "Perfect Practice makes Perfect". Got along way to go but times are improving. Thanks PC, your the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 first thing was slicked up guns...cant go fast without that! practice loading SxS alot!!!Make sure your ammo will take down every KD..every time smooth is fast...less misses..can't out run them. Dry fire is great for transitions but...real shooting is king. I'm not the fastest always...but I keep getting better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I don't do anything, I'm just naturally fast! Say when! (LOL) Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Transition. Learning and using your free hand to do things. Example, on pistol, next shotgun. As you finish with pistol and holstering, use your other hand to either pick-up shotgun or shells. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 All of the items suggested here, especially dry fire practice. Also look into getting the book or tapes of Lanny Bashums, Mental Management for Shooting Sports. It will really help you with your game and in other sports/ life issues you may have. It's an awesome series. JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rider Rudy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 What helped me was shooting with better and faster Pards, as they will give you Tips on how to get Better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 <snip> Finally, I will give you the same advice Phantom gave me here on the wire. Go out and shoot. Nothing beats putting bullets down range. HA! That reminds me of something one of my friends in Florida said to me when I started seeking improvement. He called it his "instant top shooter program." What he said to me was something along the lines of: Go shoot half a million rounds and then come back and see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olen Rugged Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Actually, speed is easier to learn first. If you want to go fast, you have to shoot fast. You have to practice shooting fast... Interesting that you mention that, because there is little said about athleticism, conditioning or just general good health in any discussion here on the wire. I have heard from more than one coach that they would rather teach a fast guy/gal how to shoot than to teach a shooter how to be fast. Go shoot half a million rounds and then come back and see me. Lots of variants of that but the number is not unrealistic. In dry draws or reloads or anything that requires tuning the motor skills, much can be done in the privacy of your bedroom... I spotted something here a few weeks ago about "getting hit with a switch anytime you didn't have both hands working". Nothing like a little reinforcement! Olen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewey Cheatem, SASS #75620 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I have heard of a fly swatter being used at an undisclosed range in Texas where more than a handful of World and National Champions shoot. The biggest thing that helped me was the people I shoot with. Each one helps a little in different ways. No matter what style I shoot I've got a great person to teach me little things that go along way. Lanny Bashams book With Winning in Mind helped also. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Having Ed Seiker as a mentor helped me the most. Something else that helped me a lot was thinking about scenarios and shooting 24/7. Did that for years and I truly believe it was a big factor in my growth as a cowboy action shooter. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 HA! That reminds me of something one of my friends in Florida said to me when I started seeking improvement. He called it his "instant top shooter program." What he said to me was something along the lines of: Go shoot half a million rounds and then come back and see me. I am able to practice fast once or sometimes twice a month, but I work hard to shoot at three clubs for a total of 4 and sometimes 5 monthlies. All up I am only shooting around 1000 rounds a month, including time at the local range shooting slow, which I just confirmed by a review of my reloading book. When you throw in annuals and state tournaments that means I have shot about 40,000 rounds since I started in April of 2009. I am 64 now, so I guess I will become really fast when I am about 94. I hope my thumbs hold out tell then. Actually, I do some dry firing nearly every evening. That helps with transitions, and front sight control, but doesn't do much for dealing with recoil or dealing with the adrenaline rush that comes from shooting a live stage. I really envy the lucky people who have ranges in their back yards and can shoot several hundred rounds a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre #23212 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 ROing...The ROs job is to watch the shooter and their guns!!! Danged if ya can't pick up a lot, from the topguns to the slowest guy on the posse. When ya see it, it goes DING...Dang that was smart!!! When a shooter comes up and looks like he's moving in slow motion and his time is 16 seconds...and you can remember everything he did...your there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Lefty Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Mouse fart Ammo! I keed! Practicing the fundamentals, draw, sight picture, dry fire as fast as I can. Shooting lots of rounds is great but not all of us can afford to or don't have a convenient location to do it from, so dry fire. I set a couple of paper plates up at the end of the hall and that is my "Target;" load em up with dummy rounds and have at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Actually, speed is easier to learn first. If you want to go fast, you have to shoot fast. You have to practice shooting fast. Misses be damned. Full speed ahead! Your eyes will eventually catch up and the misses will stop, but the speed will still be there. That said, if your fundamentals aren't solid, you'll create some bad habits. Shoot fast! This is exactly what the top shooters in my area stress! Like your videos BTW! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The thing I learned that was most important way back when I started was, the difference between the top shooters and everyone else is not the time between shots, but the time between guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheet Iron Jack Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Man there is some SAGE ad-vice here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 After fifteen years.... A couple of things really, but my number one thing is ......tough competition!! Up until about 2007, we only had a couple of fast guys here in Florida. Now you can't throw a dead cat without hitting one. Tough, fast competition will drive you to be better or make you accept medioctrity. Yes all the things mentioned above about training, practice, technique - all true. BUT none of that is worth a dang if you don't WANT to imporve and nothing will do that like getting your butt handed to you every other weekend. Uh, oh yeah.....Thanks Travis!!......(I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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