Revisit of Henry Big Boy use?

[cmrwash]

I know that Big Boys are not popular, from my research non-popularity stems from no side loading gate resulting in slow loading time. But now they are offered with side loading gates.

1. Is a Henry Big Boy Steel, model #H012GC in 45 Colt approved for SASS events?

2. Was the unpopularity only from the loading issue which is now in theory corrected by the side gate?

 

Why am i asking? I own said rifle and I thinking about doing some events. I also own a Henry Large Frame in 45-70 that i know is approved.

 

Thank you and very sorry for my newbie stupidity.

[July Smith]

Yes your Henry is approved and fine for SASS.  Take it to a club and get your feet wet.  I think over time you will realize that your Henry is a fine rifle, but they aren't built for speed.

[Sedalia Dave]

It’s not the lack of the loading gate, the problem is that the action design will not function properly when cycled very fast. 
 

 This is especially true of the 38/357 rifles. 
 

 The 45 Colt rifles are a little better. 

[cmrwash]

thank you, you are the first that said it's just a slow functioning gun.  all my research always focused on the the loading of the tube mag.  I love the gun, and i will probably use it, until i buy something different.

[Tyrel Cody]

10 minutes ago, cmrwash said:

thank you, you are the first that said it's just a slow functioning gun.  all my research always focused on the the loading of the tube mag.  I love the gun, and i will probably use it, until i buy something different.

Yep, legal, don’t buy anything else; take it and get yourself to a match.

 

I’ve read somewhere that they are based on a 336 Marlin action instead of a Marlin 1894 action; thus a longer action that doesn’t function well with pistol caliber cartridges.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

15 minutes ago, cmrwash said:

thank you, you are the first that said it's just a slow functioning gun.  all my research always focused on the the loading of the tube mag.  I love the gun, and i will probably use it, until i buy something different.

Yep get to a match and see how it works. 
 Try others rifles when given the chance. See what you like. 

[watab kid]

welcome to the site and the game , i agree use it a while and see if you want to continue , then buy what you want if you want , the 4570 is good for the long range side matches , 

[Hoss]

The Henry Big Boy not legal in Classic Cowboy. 
 

I’ve seen a few HBBs at SASS matches. They just don’t work well. 99% of shooters will want to go fast. You just can’t with a HBB. Last one I saw at a match shooter tried to go fast. It jammed. He had lever open, trying to shake cartridge out of gun. Springs & screws started falling out. He finished the match with a borrowed rifle! Never saw the HBB again.  
 

if you have a HBB by all means shoot it. But don’t go buy one. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

2 hours ago, cmrwash said:

thank you, you are the first that said it's just a slow functioning gun.  all my research always focused on the loading of the tube mag.  I love the gun, and i will probably use it, until i buy something different.

When you buy a rifle that cycles fast and reliably (like an 1873 Winchester), keep the Henry around as a backup rifle for when your main match rifle breaks and you need to complete a match.  We work our rifles hard and put many rounds through them.  Eventually something breaks or wears out and we need a backup.

 

A shooter on my posse many years ago at EOT competed with a Henry.  He worked the action slowly and deliberately and never had a problem.  He also finished in the bottom 10% of the match.

[watab kid]

"....

 We work our rifles hard and put many rounds through them.  Eventually something breaks or wears out and we need a backup.

A shooter on my posse many years ago at EOT competed with a Henry.  He worked the action slowly and deliberately and never had a problem.  He also finished in the bottom 10% of the match...."

 

verywell put , that sums up the objections about as well as anything , its a fine rifle just doesnt work well in this game , i have henry rifles and like them a lot but the tools i use here are not henrys 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Your Not going to get much good response here on the Henry because of there deception in the beginning of the company. 

But the are a good American made product. 

Not really good for fast shooting like done here in SASS .

I have found if your not a speed demon and run the gun to full stroke every time .

They work  just fine .

But there are better options. 

Rooster 

[Fretless]

15 hours ago, cmrwash said:

I also own a Henry Large Frame in 45-70 that i know is approved.

Per the SHB your 45-70 is legal for long range competition.  It is not a legal caliber for a main match.  Only calibers commonly found in revolvers of the time are legal for main match competition.

[Captain Bill Burt]

8 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Your Not going to get much good response here on the Henry because of there deception in the beginning of the company. 

But the are a good American made product. 

Not really good for fast shooting like done here in SASS .

I have found if your not a speed demon and run the gun to full stroke every time .

They work  just fine .

But there are better options. 

Rooster 

I haven't heard anyone on this thread mention an objection due to deception.  The biggest hit against the HBB is that it can't be run at speed, which is what pretty much everyone here is saying.  Fine rifle, looks decent and probably fine for plinking and hunting but not suited for CAS if the shooter wants to be competitive.  

 

The Henry .22 on the other hand works just fine for Buckaroos. I have one that my former Buckaroos, now Young Gun and Cowboy used to use. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

The Henry Big Boy is a well made rifle.  I think its similarity to the the Marlin is only superficial and visual, but I could be mistaken.  

The criticism for the BB comes from two directions, the fact that in spite of being well made, it is not really suited for our game.  This is similar to how something like the Winchester 94 in, say, .45 Colt or .44 Magnum, is a nice rifle, but it just ain't right for CAS.

The other criticism of the the HENRY Big Boy is how their advertising heavily implies that they are the same company, or at least somehow connected to the same company that made the original Henry back in 1860, which is just not the case.  Some folks take issue with this perceived dishonesty.   I can understand this criticism.  I know for a fact that my brother, who was not a Cowboy shooter, was convinced that Henry Repeating Arms Company, was in fact the same company one run by Tyler Henry.

Now, as to the Henry Big Boy itself, a pard once loaned me one at a local shoot after my then new to me 92 had a problem.  I found it to be a pleasant enough gun to shoot, if awkward to load.  The only "complaint" I had was hot gasses hitting my right wrist as I worked the action.  (I shoot left handed)  Conversely, I did not experience this problem with a Marlin the one time a pard let me finish the last stage of a shoot with one.  This is why I think the visial resemblance is just that, visual only.

Take it with a a grain.  

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

Welcome, cmrwash.  As others said, the Big Boy is, as has been for some time, a SASS-legal rifle.  The “Classic Cowboy” category mentioned in one reply has some restrictions on rifles and other equipment but there are plenty of other categories in the game.

 

Some of the criticism of the HBB’s “load from the muzzle” design is from people who don’t shoot the game.  The “side gate” versions would be more convenient at the Loading Table, but a new shooter already owns a “so side gate”, they should bring it out.

 

HRA makes a carbine version of the HBB that has something like a seven round magazine capacity.  Any rifle that does not hold ten rounds in the magazine would be a poor choice for use in matches, but it does not make them illegal.

 

Henry Repeating Arms does a great job with marketing.  They also get their products on dealer’s shelves.  I don’t think I had ever seen a Uberti 1873 rifle in a store before I attended my first match.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I have tried a few Big Boys. 

Couldn't get through 10 rounds running at my normal speed.

They turned into a jam-a-matic. 

 

However, I do like the company. And really like the .22's as I have 5 of the Golden Boys in the safe and 

they all run great. Even at speed. 

 

If I wanted a descent hunting or just plinking rifle. The Big Boy would be ok. But for SASS. Not so much.

 

BUT. You have it.

So go run it. 

It's better than not going to a match at all. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

There's a few shooters that I see using them and they work okay but if they try to go too fast it seems that that's when they have feeding problems. Go yo a shoot and see what happens. Oh yea and have fun!! 

[Ashley D Austin]

ook niceI started with a tube load Henry .357/.38 Spl. It is a nicely balanced rifle and it really does not take any longer to load than a side gate. It does shoot slower than my Winchester due to the Henry's long lever action. The Henry broke twice the first season, but I sent it to Henry free of charge for repair on Monday and got it back on Thursdaay each time so I did not lose any shooting days. It really is up to you what you would like to shoot with and if you would just like to shoot the rifles you have or if you are super competitive.

Now I take my HENRY to three days matches as a backup to my Winchester incase something goes wrong, but so far nothing has.

I have looked at the new HENRY side gates and they look and feel nice, and the action seems smoother, but I cannot speak for how they will hold up in heavy use.

Edited January 19 by Ashley D Austin

[Vail Vigilante]

I say shoot it!!

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

I say shoot it!!

I encourage all of my competitors to shoot Henry Big Boys.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I encourage all of my competitors to shoot Henry Big Boys.

I always tell my competitors that the fast guys run blind folded, winter gloves and shoes laced to each other! 
only way I can keep up don’t you know!    

Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I encourage all of my competitors to shoot Henry Big Boys.

I heard Tennessee Williams was wanting you to start shooting one

 

Randy

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

11 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

The other criticism of the the HENRY Big Boy is how their advertising heavily implies that they are the same company, or at least somehow connected to the same company that made the original Henry back in 1860, which is just not the case.  Some folks take issue with this perceived dishonesty.   I can understand this criticism.  I know for a fact that my brother, who was not a Cowboy shooter, was convinced that Henry Repeating Arms Company, was in fact the same company one run by Tyler Henry.

 

 

Can we do away with some of these fallacies?

 

There was NEVER a Henry firearms company prior to the current one.

The company was the New Haven Firearms company owned by Oliver Winchester.

And was only called as such because Winchester believed (even back then) that having his name on a firearms company would damage the public image of his primary income (clothier).

 

B.Tyler Henry did not / nor did he ever own a firearms company.

Henry was a foreman; a supervisor - a clever man, admittedly but never owned the company.

 

There was NEVER a Henry rifle AND the 1860 model was NOT designed by Henry.

The so called Henry rilfle is a New Haven model 1860 repeating rifle.

The design for the 1860 was based on patents for the Volcanic pistol designed by Smith & Wesson (before they were the S&W we know them as) - these patents and design were purchased by Winchester.

The designs were provided by Winchester to Henry (again foreman - not owner) and Henry (per legend) saw the potential in upsizing them to a rifle platform.

His credit should be for the vision of using the design for a rifle AND the adaption of the design to that purpose.

The courts decided a long time ago that it wasn't his design and it wasn't his company when Henry attempted to sue Winchester over ownership and credit.

 

No one with any knowledge of firearms history or ability to research has ever thought the Henry company which started in the 1990's had anything to do with B. Tyler Henry.

They used his name and history as "father of the lever rifle" for inspiration for their (at that time) new born lever gun company.

 

No different than I know that the Tesla car company is not associated with Nikola Tesla but are using his name and history as inspiration for their electric cars.

 

[Griff]

+1 to Creeker, all correct.  My problem with Henry Repeating Arms goes back to when they advertised their Henry Big Boy as SASS Legal before ever asking if it was.  Dishonest at worst, simply fulfilling the mantra about assuming at best.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

15 minutes ago, Griff said:

+1 to Creeker, all correct.  My problem with Henry Repeating Arms goes back to when they advertised their Henry Big Boy as SASS Legal before ever asking if it was.  Dishonest at worst, simply fulfilling the mantra about assuming at best.

Honestly.

I think (with zero evidence to support or back up my "think") that faux pas "may" have had more to do with some prior SASS management as it did with Henry.

 

If you recall - there was a certain member of the Wild Bunch that went "poof" after some business dealings.

Just idle speculation; but (based on rumor, rumblings and innuendo) I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were assurances made and then reneged upon that were not Henrys fault.

[watab kid]

17 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I haven't heard anyone on this thread mention an objection due to deception.  The biggest hit against the HBB is that it can't be run at speed, which is what pretty much everyone here is saying.  Fine rifle, looks decent and probably fine for plinking and hunting but not suited for CAS if the shooter wants to be competitive.  

 

The Henry .22 on the other hand works just fine for Buckaroos. I have one that my former Buckaroos, now Young Gun and Cowboy used to use. 

your right about the 22s , i have one as part of my set of 22s for SASS i had hoped the grandkids might use - so far no takers , but it works fine 

[Jedediah Westwood]

I have been in SASS over a year now and have shot the HBB for every match since it is my one and only lever gun. I shoot the 45 colt round so I do not have any experience with 38 spl problems someone above mentioned, but it has served me well. I am not nearly as fast as some of the people who shoot with me, so I have not had problems with the feeding so far, however every once in a while, I don't throw the lever all the way and it is becoming more frequent that I short stroke the gun (all I do to fix this is I run the lever one extra time). After about a year and a half of shooting it seems like I am just barely starting to see the end of the Henry Big Boys capability, but I still have a while to go before I really start to outrun my gun. 

 

I have been really happy with the gun and have had no issues with the quality or craftsmanship of the gun. A few things to note though (not to discourage you from using the big boy), it is more complicated to take apart than a 73 or a 66 for a deep cleaning (that's just due to the way it was designed and won't happen that often anyways unless your extremely OCD with gun cleaning). One other thing that I didn't realize was illegal with the sport is you need to get rid of the white diamond on the rear sight that is common for all henrys (the easy fix is just turning that plate with the diamond around).

14 hours ago, watab kid said:

your right about the 22s , i have one as part of my set of 22s for SASS i had hoped the grandkids might use - so far no takers , but it works fine 

I am willing to be adopted if you're looking to give it away.

[watab kid]

2 hours ago, Jedediah Westwood said:

I have been in SASS over a year now and have shot the HBB for every match since it is my one and only lever gun. I shoot the 45 colt round so I do not have any experience with 38 spl problems someone above mentioned, but it has served me well. I am not nearly as fast as some of the people who shoot with me, so I have not had problems with the feeding so far, however every once in a while, I don't throw the lever all the way and it is becoming more frequent that I short stroke the gun (all I do to fix this is I run the lever one extra time). After about a year and a half of shooting it seems like I am just barely starting to see the end of the Henry Big Boys capability, but I still have a while to go before I really start to outrun my gun. 

 

I have been really happy with the gun and have had no issues with the quality or craftsmanship of the gun. A few things to note though (not to discourage you from using the big boy), it is more complicated to take apart than a 73 or a 66 for a deep cleaning (that's just due to the way it was designed and won't happen that often anyways unless your extremely OCD with gun cleaning). One other thing that I didn't realize was illegal with the sport is you need to get rid of the white diamond on the rear sight that is common for all henrys (the easy fix is just turning that plate with the diamond around).

I am willing to be adopted if you're looking to give it away.

ill keep that in mind ,