Ford lightning holding me up from getting my car

[Trigger Mike]

Wife wanted a new expedition, being she hates white and grey and that’s all dealers sell around here we found a blue one and the dealer has to go get it from another state.  
 

meanwhile his driver is tied up driving to Alabama to pick up a f150 lightning for another customer.  That dealer didn’t charge it so their driver had to rent a motel room so it can charge overnight, THEN drive four hours and charge it for four hours and drive the other four.  
 

WHY in the world would anyone want to put themselves through that?!  It takes just a few minutes to fill a gas tank .  It takes longer than the battery last to get the environmental savings verses the pollution created when they made it.  

[Doc Shapiro]

I do not know why you are expecting critical thinking from them...

[Rip Snorter]

The nearby Big City dealer wouldn't even talk about getting the car my Wife wanted, from just three and a half hours away in the same state.  We called that dealer direct and made a buy.  Turned out to be a blessing, including a scenic drive.  Best dealer I have ever done business with in a long life.  Both cars gasoline fired!

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I've been thinking:

EVs may end up being a real boon to the hotel/motel industry.

I imagine the large chains are selecting land near the limits of a charged vehicle's range, where they will build parking lots with chargers for each parking slot, waiting areas, toilets, restaurants and rooms to rent, short term, while your vehicle is charging. 

May be time to buy Holiday Inn stock.

[Rip Snorter]

Dystopia Inn?

[Subdeacon Joe]

4 hours?  Garbage.  Fast charger is 45 minutes.

 

Surprised that they didn't claim the time of a Level 1 charger, the 120v that plug is into your house current.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

21 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

4 hours?  Garbage.  Fast charger is 45 minutes.

It was probably broken. Most of them seem to be.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

It was probably broken. Most of them seem to be.

 

I've always been able to find a working one.   There is one bank of 8 chargers nearby of which 2 always seem to be out, but overall I've not found that "most of them" are inoperative.  

 

Tell us of your extensive experience with Level 3 chargers.

[sassnetguy50]

Regardless of charge times, why is he driving instead of trailering the vehicle?  8hours away at 70mph is 560miles from that trip alone.  Will your Expedition have similar miles from the employee's road trip?

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

55 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I've always been able to find a working one.   There is one bank of 8 chargers nearby of which 2 always seem to be out, but overall I've not found that "most of them" are inoperative.  

 

Tell us of your extensive experience with Level 3 chargers.

I'm not claiming to have personal experience. I've got better sense than that. However, there several youtubers that are proponents of EVs, and they, while making their videos to show the rest of us dinosaurs how great EVs are, seem to have trouble finding enough working chargers to make their trips in good time.  

[Blackwater 53393]

43 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I've always been able to find a working one.   There is one bank of 8 chargers nearby of which 2 always seem to be out, but overall I've not found that "most of them" are inoperative.  

 

Tell us of your extensive experience with Level 3 chargers.

My only experience with EV chargers is the one in the Nissan national headquarters parking lot that failed to shut down and burned an employee’s Nissan Leaf and itself to a crisp. It took six hours to put out the fire!!

 

When my late brother-in-law set his old Plymouth on fire, intentionally, one fire truck put it out in under twenty minutes and it stayed put out!!

 

Does that count??

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

My only experience with EV chargers is the one in the Nissan national headquarters parking lot that failed to shut down and burned an employee’s Nissan Leaf and itself to a crisp. It took six hours to put out the fire!!

 

When my late brother-in-law set his old Plymouth on fire, intentionally, one fire truck put it out in under twenty minutes and it stayed put out!!

 

Does that count??

It won't, because it was a single incident that doesn't meet his expectations of EV performance.

[Subdeacon Joe]

4 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

My only experience with EV chargers is the one in the Nissan national headquarters parking lot that failed to shut down and burned an employee’s Nissan Leaf and itself to a crisp. It took six hours to put out the fire!!

 

When my late brother-in-law set his old Plymouth on fire, intentionally, one fire truck put it out in under twenty minutes and it stayed put out!!

 

Does that count??

 

Yes.  A case of one means that every fast charger will overcharge any vehicle hooked to it and cause a fire.  Just as this proves that every gas station burns down whenever someone pumps gas. http://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/Data-research-and-tools/Building-and-Life-Safety/Service-or-Gas-Station-Fires

Report highlights

From 2014 through 2018, local fire departments responded to an estimated average of 4,150 fires in or on service or gas station properties per year. These fires caused an average of three civilian deaths, 43 civilian fire injuries, and $30.0 million in direct property damage annually.

 

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

It won't, because it was a single incident that doesn't meet his expectations of EV performance.

 

Male bovine excrement.  I've stated my opinion and expectations about EVs many times, including what I think are their limitations.  You made the choice to distort that into my calling them the answer to life, the universe, and everything.  Sort of like the harridans on The View, "If guns keep us safe, why is there so much crime?"

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 http://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/Data-research-and-tools/Building-and-Life-Safety/Service-or-Gas-Station-Fires

Didn't someone already debunk that study in another thread?

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Sort of like the harridans on The View, "If guns keep us safe, why is there so much crime?"

And as to THAT, guns don't just get up and commit crimes on their own, EVs DO seem to catch fire without human interaction. Even without being doused with saltwater.

[JD Lud]

I personally think that unless you live in a warm climate, are retired or have a very flexible job, commute only short to moderate trips that an EV is only an option as a second or extra vehicle.   
 

New bugs being worked out if them and the infrastructure all the time.  Gas cars are so mature they have come such a long ways…battery cars and the charging structures will get there as well unless something else comes along before it happens.

 

Batteries aren’t free and are a large cost…google some photos of a lithium mine.  There is no free lunch…trade offs for either and depends on everyone lifestyles.  
 

 

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

46 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Didn't someone already debunk that study in another thread?

 

Thanks for proving that you didn't even bother to open the link.  

 

[Warden Callaway]

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Thanks for proving that you didn't even bother to open the link.  

 

I don't care enough to do so. I don't care about EVs. I only made a smart alec comment, which you, as usual, took as a reason to go high and to the right. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you want an EV, go for it. The biggest things that annoy me is that the government is trying to push them on us, and the environmental wackos that think that they are The Answer to man made global warming, which ALREADY doesn't exist. I'm not saying that you are either. You've already put to rest.

If and when the technology and infrastructure catch up to the point to where they are practical for the common motorist, I won't have anything to say about them. As they are now, I consider them an answer to a question that was never asked. 

On a personal note, Joe, based on some of the other posts you've made commenting on other subjects, you and I seem to agree on a lot, and as long as the subject of EVs doesn't come up, we might be friends. At that, I'm going to let the EV subject go, for now.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

So, Why didn't this intrepid F-150 aficionado avail himself of a Tesla Charger adaptor??  Seems kind of foolish.  Although at this point, the Tesla plug format has become the industry standard.  Some vehicles will still need an adaptor.  Kinda like plugging a three prong plug into an two prong outlet 

[Subdeacon Joe]

25 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

I don't care enough to do so. I don't care about EVs. I only made a smart alec comment, which you, as usual, took as a reason to go high and to the right. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you want an EV, go for it. The biggest things that annoy me is that the government is trying to push them on us, and the environmental wackos that think that they are The Answer to man made global warming, which ALREADY doesn't exist. I'm not saying that you are either. You've already put to rest.

If and when the technology and infrastructure catch up to the point to where they are practical for the common motorist, I won't have anything to say about them. As they are now, I consider them an answer to a question that was never asked. 

On a personal note, Joe, based on some of the other posts you've made commenting on other subjects, you and I seem to agree on a lot, and as long as the subject of EVs doesn't come up, we might be friends. At that, I'm going to let the EV subject go, for now.

 

For someone who claims to not care about EVs you do seem to spend a lot of time caring about them.

 

By the way, that link that you're afraid of goes to the National Fire Prevention Association and their report on the over 4,000 fires at gas stations every year.   I guess that means that ICE card, what with 4,000 gas station fires, don't meet your expectations.   At least applying your own standards.

 

By the way, the NFPA is the outfit that pretty much sets global standards for fire safety and prevention.  You see their placards on all sorts of things from small propane cylinders to 53 foot trailers.  But, yeah, it's only about EVs. 

 

Yes, we do agree on a lot of things.   I'm just not as willing as you are to believe every lie, exaggeration, and distorted "fact" about EVs that pops up on the internet.  From either side.

[Buckshot Bob]

12 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

I've been thinking:

EVs may end up being a real boon to the hotel/motel industry.

I imagine the large chains are selecting land near the limits of a charged vehicle's range, where they will build parking lots with chargers for each parking slot, waiting areas, toilets, restaurants and rooms to rent, short term, while your vehicle is charging. 

May be time to buy Holiday Inn stock.

It will also expand the lot lizard industry, they’ll have someplace besides the truck stops 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Buddy is considering an EV pick-up and we're looking at the run from Ottawa to Kapuskasing and I see charging points listed.

I'll have to try to dig into them and see what the charging rate is. 

For now, I think I'll just consider a smaller EV for around town shopping and Dr. trips.

My home is wired for 200 amps and after the power outages we have experienced here and the warnings of the Hydro CEO about further, longer interruptions, I'm glad I have a big NG generator installed, so I can likely make out.

[Subdeacon Joe]

24 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

I'll have to try to dig into them and see what the charging rate is. 

 

A quick search found for Petro-Canada: "

Initially, EV owners paid by the minute when charging up their vehicles, with different rates across different provinces. Rates in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia were as low as $0.25 per minute, while stopping to charge in Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, or Saskatchewan cost Canadians as high as $0.33 per minute. Rates for the province of British Columbia were $0.27 originally. That averages to about $0.283 across all provinces.

Now, according to Petro-Canada’s website, it is putting in a $0.50 per minute flat rate across all provinces. “When you join us along Canada’s Electric Highway, pay $0.50 per minute while you charge, with no connection or idling fees,” reads the oil giant’s website."

So a 50 minute charge will set you back $25.  Some charging networks may be more, some less.  Some offer a "membership" for $4 to $6/month, and that drops the rater per minute significantly, sometimes by almost half.  So if you subscribe to a plan that charges 50 cents per minute, the cost may drop to, let's call it 25 cents per minute.  So 48 minutes to charge will cost you $12.  That's usually enough time to go from 15% to about 90%.

[Utah Bob #35998]

13 hours ago, Mercy Me said:

White, Blue, Grey...What's the difference?

Are you not married? 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

We are fortunate that our electricity is relatively cheap in Georgia.  We pay a fraction over 8 cents a kilowatt hour.  Since  the monthly matches I go to are less than 110 miles round trip, an EV would probably work for about 90% of my needs.  I would still have my evil gas guzzling F-150 for those times I need to haul the camper or make a long distance road trip.  My F-150 has a 700 mile range on one tank of gas as long as I keep my foot out of it.  It's also good for snatching out unwanted landscaping with a log chain, but that's another story.  

 

The next time the wife needs a new vehicle, I'll take a serious look at those EV's.    If I can charge it at home cheaply and just use it for local trips, it might be a winner.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

57 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

If I can charge it at home cheaply and just use it for local trips, it might be a winner.  

 

I think every EV comes with a cable that is for home charging, and comes with an adapter to allow it to plug into your regular 120v service.  My Leaf will get about 60 to 70 miles of charge overnight - say from about 1900 to 0600. 

[Henry T Harrison]

18 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

4 hours?  Garbage.  Fast charger is 45 minutes.

 

Surprised that they didn't claim the time of a Level 1 charger, the 120v that plug is into your house current.

That would add almost two hours to a trip to visit my grandchildren assuming that there was no line at the charger. No thanks 

[Subdeacon Joe]

21 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

That would add almost two hours to a trip to visit my grandchildren assuming that there was no line at the charger. No thanks 

 

So?  I like to stop and stretch my legs every few hours.  I'm beyond being able to drive 12 hours with only a couple of pit stops to pay rent on my coffee.  You plan your rest stop to "top off" your battery.  USE the time.   

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

56 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

So?  I like to stop and stretch my legs every few hours.  I'm beyond being able to drive 12 hours with only a couple of pit stops to pay rent on my coffee.  You plan your rest stop to "top off" your battery.  USE the time.   

If I'm traveling cross country, I just drive. I'm NOT beyond a 12 hour drive. All I need is 10 minutes to pump and pee, with a short stop at the soda fountain. I'm USING the time to DRIVE. When I drove from Tucson Az. to Columbus Oh, I made 2000 miles in 26 hours. I wasn't driving just for the drive, I was heading to a destination. 

Your EV obviously works for you. One wouldn't work for me. 

[Cypress Sun]

7 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

If I'm traveling cross country, I just drive. I'm NOT beyond a 12 hour drive. All I need is 10 minutes to pump and pee, with a short stop at the soda fountain. I'm USING the time to DRIVE. When I drove from Tucson Az. to Columbus Oh, I made 200 miles in 26 hours. I wasn't driving just for the drive, I was heading to a destination. 

Your EV obviously works for you. One wouldn't work for me. 

 

Now that's a leisurely drive!

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 minute ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Now that's a leisurely drive!

2000 miles. 

[Blackwater 53393]

12 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Yes.  A case of one means that every fast charger will overcharge any vehicle hooked to it and cause a fire.  Just as this proves that every gas station burns down whenever someone pumps gas. http://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/Data-research-and-tools/Building-and-Life-Safety/Service-or-Gas-Station-Fires

Report highlights

From 2014 through 2018, local fire departments responded to an estimated average of 4,150 fires in or on service or gas station properties per year. These fires caused an average of three civilian deaths, 43 civilian fire injuries, and $30.0 million in direct property damage annually.

Joe.  I hadn’t been back to this thread since I posted on it yesterday!  I merely stated that my only experience with the EVs and their chargers was the one that I mentioned.

 

I HAVE recently read of several other fires and seen video of one catastrophic explosion, but I didn’t even mention those because I wasn’t there for any of those events.

 

You needn’t get so defensive!! No one is attacking you!

 

My only real concern is that amount of effort and the personnel required to put out these fires.  
 

I couldn’t care less if you or the rest of the driving public immediately switched to EVs exclusively, so long as I can find fuel for my old Harley and my street rods and I know how to make that if I’m forced to!

 

HAVE A NICE DAY!!

 

 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

8 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

By the way, the NFPA is the outfit that pretty much sets global standards for fire safety and prevention. 

NFPA also writes the National Electrical code, as well as standards for electrical safety and electrical maintenance.  They are written by committee, basically, made up of professionals, trades people and engineers that deal with its practical applications in the workplace with, generally, day to day application of the code in some sort of professional context.
 

The sections, and articles, of the NEC, for example, each is assigned to a group, and reviewed and revised on a three year cycle. A lot of people involved, not by bureaucrats without any association or experience with the trade. Are there things in it that  I don’t particularly like? Yes. Things I don’t claim to understand? A multitude. Is it perfect? No, but it works darn well, especially as technology progresses. Generally  things get worked out as technology and the code adapt to one another.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

14 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Joe.  I hadn’t been back to this thread since I posted on it yesterday!  I merely stated that my only experience with the EVs and their chargers was the one that I mentioned.

 

I HAVE recently read of several other fires and seen video of one catastrophic explosion, but I didn’t even mention those because I wasn’t there for any of those events.

 

You needn’t get so defensive!! No one is attacking you!

 

My only real concern is that amount of effort and the personnel required to put out these fires.  
 

I couldn’t care less if you or the rest of the driving public immediately switched to EVs exclusively, so long as I can find fuel for my old Harley and my street rods and I know how to make that if I’m forced to!

 

HAVE A NICE DAY!!

 

 

Nearly every gas car that I have seen crash through a simple barricade, or run over a hill ( and I’ve seen many), explodes for no logical reason. This always seems to happen halfway down, sometimes midair,  or upon impact. From what I have witnessed, they all appear to be in Southern California.

For some reason Pontiac Firebirds and Dodge Challengers are immune to this phenomenon, as they can crash through darn near anything and jump draw bridges, or bridges that are out, and suffer no ill effects.