Stagecoach south Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 This my first year in the this fun sport. I have shot at 3 out of 4 Matches I have been to this summer. At my first match i shot at i borrowed firearms. Since then I have got a set of pietta 1873’s an 1897 shotgun. I have been shooting a uberti 1873 that I borrow from another shooter. I’ve been looking at the new Winchesters My question is if you could get one of the reproductions or try to find original winchesters what would you go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I'd get a reproduction, no way I'd treat an original the way I do in this game. Plus, I don't think aftermarket parts fit an original and short stroked rifles with action work are SOOOO much nicer to shoot regardless of speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 No way I'd put an original through the abuse that is a match. Reproduction for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 "New" Winchesters are fine if you can find one you like. They're typically better finished and run smoother out of the box with a slightly shorter lever throw than either original Winchesters or Uberti's. You don't mention what work has been one to the one you are borrowing. If it's been short-stroked be aware that there are not as many options to modify the Winchester as there are for the Uberti's. Definitely wouldn't use and "original" Winchester if I was trying to run it like I stole it. Not that I own one, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot one occasionally for style points, especially if it was chambered in .38 WCF or .44 WCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecoach south Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 The one I borrowed is short stroked. The last time around it snapped the firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 For a '73 in this sport, my first choice is an Uberti, slicked by one of the experts in this field. It will be reliable and a pleasure to shoot. There is lots of aftermarket support for this platform. Second choice is the Miroku Winchester. Fewer parts are available. But fewer hop-up parts seem to be needed to make it run well. There was once a short strike kit for it but this was discontinued. It does already have a shorter stroke than a stock Uberti. Limited choices for good smiths on this platform compared to the Uberti. Then everything else but I would put an original Winchester way down the list. I bought a Miroku. Partly because the furniture has an oil rather than a poly finish so it will be easier to keep looking nice. I also was taken by the Shot Show special from a couple shows ago (cancelled due to CoViD), and I found one at a fair price on GunBroker. It has upgraded walnut furniture and beautiful color case hardening. It does need a couple tweaks but is quite shootable out of the box. Mine is chambered in .44-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Stagecoach south said: The one I borrowed is short stroked. The last time around it snapped the firing pin. That happens. Have you shot with a '92, '66 or '60? How about a Marlin 1894? Straight stocks and pistol-grip stocks as well as crescent vs carbine butts also make the handling different. If you are comfortable and accurate with what you've been borrowing I don't think you can go wrong with buying one just like it. Be aware that if you get a stock Uberti and have it short-stroked by someone other than who did the one you are currently borrowing, it may feel different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Stuff breaks all the time. No matter the make. Don't let that scare you away from the Uberti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said: Stuff breaks all the time. No matter the make. Don't let that scare you away from the Uberti. Also for the OP, not only does stuff break, keep in mind another description for "slicking" and "action work" is "premature intentional wear." Prematurely intentionally smoothing and slicking is removing part of the service life of those parts. But when we do this to "perfectly good" firearms, we get guns that become a true pleasure to run. So whatever platform, don't fear the breakage, celebrate it and enjoy it. And then get it rebuilt and finish wearing it out all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecoach south Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 I have shot a marlin did not like it. The rifle felt small to me. I have not shot the other years pretty much everybody I shoot with has a 73.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecoach south Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 Not worried about breaking stuff that happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 The advantage with an Uberti 66 or 73 is that if you decide you like something else later on, it will be easy to sell. They are very popular for a good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 First of all, on the subject of an original: The materials (steel, brass/bronze) used in these was markedly inferior to modern steels and heattreatment, compared with those used in modern repros. Second, it depends on what your objectives are in the game. If you are mostly interested in speed, then you will probably want one of the toggle-link actions such as the "Winchester" '66 or '73, slicked up/short stroked/whatever. As most of the previous posts have suggested, you need a gunsmith who has a LOT of experience with these modifications. As far as the mods weakening or shortening the life of parts, that will depend on the work done on them. If a 'smith really knows his/her stuff, the parts may be able to be re-heattreated to improve wear/strength. The amount of shooting we may do in one year, far exceeds the amount done by people in the Old West. Almost nobody could have afforded the ammunition, and few people other than buffalo hunters reloaded. If you want rifles that were hell-fer-stout, then go with the model designed by the master himself, John Moses Browning, i.e the Winchester M1892, or in this case, the Rossi replicas. Out-of-the-ox they will need some tinkering to smooth them up, and, from what I hear won't be quite as fast as the toggle-links. Personally, not being very fast, I prefer the Rossi '92's, especially the earlier "Puma" or the Model 65 (without crossbolt safeties or rebounding hammers, etc. Stay well and safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 You can buy a factory short stroked Winchester (Miroku). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 A Miroku built '"73 replica is NOT "Factory Short Stroked." The shorter lever travel is simply the result of differing geometry when Miroku designed their Replicant. Yes. The lever travel is shorter than an "Original" and the Uberti but not by much. A real live Uberti that has been Short Stroked to the latest lever throw preferences is much much shorter than a Miroku. Miroku built rifles are also becoming harder to come by. Currently there isn't much available for "speed" parts for Miroku rifles. Uberti rifles have a Cornucopia of "Speed" parts available and there are quite a few folks who actually know how to make the Uberti rifles really run. "Fixit" parts for Uberti are also super available. Running an actual "Original" 1873 Winchester for CAS is foolish. Those guns simply are NOT built for the pounding they will have to take. NOT a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: A Miroku built '"73 replica is NOT "Factory Short Stroked." "Factory short stroked from Winchester" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Square Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Call Jimmy Spurs at Cowboy Gunworks ! He has all the answers to every firearm question ! Cowboy Gun Works Jim McMahon aka 'Jimmy Spurs' 3107 Head of Pond Rd Island Pond, VT 05846 Shop Phone: 603-425-1189 Cell Phone: 603-490-0312 cowboygunworks@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 24 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: "Factory short stroked from Winchester" A poster selling an item can say anything they wish. And they may not be trying to decieve - but they are incorrect. My Ubertis (mine and Desert Scorpions) are Cody short strokes which are very close to the 3rd Gen kits in throw. My Miroku Winchester has a slightly longer (not a lot) throw. So while the Winchester is shorter than a stock Uberti or an original Winchester - it is not factory short stroked and even more importantly, unlike a tuned and short stroked gunsmithed rifle - the Winchester is not polished and smoothed for use. You will spend plenty of time polishing internals and grinding springs to get the Winchester up to a tuned gunsmithed level. Mines pretty good now. But its still a backup - because it aint as good as my professionally gunsmithed Ubertis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Buckshot Bear said: You can buy a factory short stroked Winchester (Miroku). I don't know of any factory short stroked Winchesters. Johnny Meadows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Aw Cummon. You're not really setting your cap on "Advertising Come On" language are ya?? So, Lay that "Factory Short Stroke" (advertising gibberish) on top of a tuned and Short Stroke Uberti. And, Let's hope in all the Advertising gibberish, you didn't miss the "genuine Winchester Repeating Arms" comment. Winchester Repeating Arms hasn't manufactured a firearm of any sort for several Decades. "Made in Japan." (Reply delayed by an appointment with Mom Nature) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: A poster selling an item can say anything they wish. And they may not be trying to decieve - but they are incorrect. My Ubertis (mine and Desert Scorpions) are Cody short strokes which are very close to the 3rd Gen kits in throw. My Miroku Winchester has a slightly longer (not a lot) throw. So while the Winchester is shorter than a stock Uberti or an original Winchester - it is not factory short stroked and even more importantly, unlike a tuned and short stroked gunsmithed rifle - the Winchester is not polished and smoothed for use. You will spend plenty of time polishing internals and grinding springs to get the Winchester up to a tuned gunsmithed level. Mines pretty good now. But its still a backup - because it aint as good as my professionally gunsmithed Ubertis. I had one of these on backorder for months with a $1000 deposit on it from this dealer (they still haven't arrived and I went for a Uberti and got my deposit back) there's a large premium for one of these 'factory' short stroked Winchesters. Speaking with the dealer, they are making a big deal that these are factory short stroked hence the premium cost. If this is false, that's a pretty big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I suppose anything "can" exist. But myself (FFL dealer) and a number of folks much smarter and knowledgeable than myself - have neither heard or seen of these unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I am curious where the ad posted by Bear came from? Winchester's website lists the Competition Carbine but does not list it as having a short stroke. The only short stroke that was available was from Navy Arms and they claimed it was an exclusive feature. Ads come from the marketing department from people that in many cases do not know anything about guns. They are frequently wrong. I suppose it is possible if the gun in Bear's ad is some kind of export market model it could have a short stroke and not violate the agreement with Navy Arms. https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html https://www.navyarms.com/Winchester1873.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: I am curious where the ad posted by Bear came from? Winchester's website lists the Competition Carbine but does not list it as having a short stroke. The only short stroke that was available was from Navy Arms and they claimed it was an exclusive feature. Ads come from the marketing department from people that in many cases do not know anything about guns. They are frequently wrong. I suppose it is possible if the gun in Bear's ad is some kind of export market model it could have a short stroke and not violate the agreement with Navy Arms. https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1873/current/model-1873-competition-carbine-high-grade.html https://www.navyarms.com/Winchester1873.php Here one of the biggest gunshops (by sales) in Australia -https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Rifles&Brand=2 By reading the replies, I'm glad I didn't get ripped off and went for a Uberti factory short stroked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnews SASS# 24779 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Reproductions are the way to go. I occasionally shoot a 1900 vintage 1892, but most of the time its an Italian 73 made in 1999. The wear and tear is too much for real antiques (and why reduce their value). And although I don't personally like them, the short-strokes and other internal help are made to fit the reproductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 My 73 is an original Winchester in .32-20. It's got a 24" octagon barrel. Although I have become a Lightning guy, this is my second favorite fun, and I try to use it at least once a year. Part of the fun of this game, for me, is using real vintage firearms from time to time. I've also got a couple of real 92s and a genuine GI Spencer. I have 1st, 2md and 3rd Generation Colts, as well as clones, but I use the real Colts, even the gold plated one, more often than the copies. Of course, I don't like short strokes. I like shooting the guns as they were created. I am not trying to win any speed contests, I know I never will, but I try for a clean match every time. It all depends on what you wanna do. There are reasons why you might want a slicked up, short stroked Uberti. There are reasons why you might want a real Winchester. Or failing that, you might just want a stock Uberti, or one with minimal action work to work out any rough spots to basically make the same as a vintage Winchester. Don't be afraid of using originals if that's what you enjoy doing. Here's a clip of me shooting a 1st Gen Colt, 3rd Gen Colt, Winchester 73, and a Winchester 97. I may not be fast, but I hit all the targets, and I had fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Law Dog Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 In my humble opinion, if you want a real Winchester, you're gonna need to go back before 1964. When you hold one and run the action you can feel the quality of the history of this firearm. Even if you have the cash, good luck getting the owner to let go of it. They are magnificent! I have both 66 and 73 Ubertis and love them both! Easy to get parts and will take a lot of rough handling! Big plus is that they are so popular, they're a easy resale and you can save 3 to $600 buying already slicked up. Happy Hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Nelson #11784 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 On 8/30/2021 at 11:26 AM, Buckshot Bear said: Here one of the biggest gunshops (by sales) in Australia -https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Rifles&Brand=2 By reading the replies, I'm glad I didn't get ripped off and went for a Uberti factory short stroked. Just be aware that the Uberti factory short stroke is still not the same as the short stroke and action job available aftermarket..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 I have a friend who is very talented, a jeweller & watch maker etc by trade he also does all his own gunsmithing..his rifle is an original '73 that he has slicked up & fitted a PGW kit..it runs beautiful. Further his pistols are ROA's that he has converted to smokeless [ .45 ]..made the barrels, cylinders & whatever else was required..they are truly a work of art, gorgeous to look at & fantastic to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 My recommendation is buy what you like, what feels good to you, and what you can afford. I have ubertis and original winchesters. They are all fun to shoot and with proper adjustment, do a good job for SASS. I know it’s the widely held opinion that you need to have a short stoke to shoot SASS, but you don’t. You just need to practice and become proficient with what you have and enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagecoach south Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 On 9/2/2021 at 11:36 PM, Doc Coles SASS 1188 said: My recommendation is buy what you like, what feels good to you, and what you can afford. I have ubertis and original winchesters. They are all fun to shoot and with proper adjustment, do a good job for SASS. I know it’s the widely held opinion that you need to have a short stoke to shoot SASS, but you don’t. You just need to practice and become proficient with what you have and enjoy yourself. I am in this game for the fun. Gets me out of house a few weekends a month. I will find something over the wintertime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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