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July Smith

Are all the fastest duelists ambidextrous?

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With all the various age based duelist categories, frontier cartridge duelist, frontiersman, and classic I was wondering how many of the top shooters shot it ambidextrously?

 

I am focusing on shaving down my speeds and can see some obvious advantages to pulling the 2nd pistol immediately after emptying the 1st, but am just wondering how those at the top do it. 

 

 

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doc royal pain doesnt shoot  double duelist    one of the best

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15 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

doc royal pain doesnt shoot  double duelist    one of the best

I hadn't shot with Doc and didn't realize that and I agree he is absolutely one of the best!

 

Randy

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When you say ambidextrous I'm pretty sure you're talking about shooting Double Duelist.  I'm not anywhere near being one of the fastest but I've shot with some that are.  The number of transition options provided by using both hands is incredible.  For that reason I'd never shoot any other way. 

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 All of the top shooters are ambidextrous regardless if they're shooting one or two handed. 

If one is afraid to use both hands at any task, they will not be proficient.

Good painters can use a brush with either hand, good carpenters can swing a hammer with either hand, same with any trade.

Try bouncing a tennis ball with your off hand and catching it in the other, keep switching it. Then, throw the ball at a wall with your off hand and catching with the other, then switch it up. These are all dexterity drills, good shooters probably do many things without realizing they are actually working on their skills.

 

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Posted (edited)

Well,  if you look at Randy St. Eagles credits listed on his post, you should realize shooting with BOTH hands, like Randy, speaks volumes:

2011-2012   TN Duelist champ

2013-14,15,16 and 17    TN Senior Duelist champ

2014 and 2017     Southeast Regional Senior Duelist champ

2016 & 2017     Senior Duelist WORLD CHAMP

2018      Silver Senior Duelist WORLD CHAMP

 

Randy whoops on his fair share of good gunfighters also.

 

I will add that there is more than being able to shoot with both hands.   Randy, and other top shooters, know how to

transition using both hands:   they grab rifle and SG with both hands, they can also grab shells with both hands, etc.....

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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I don't shoot duelist, and someone can tell me I'm death wrong and don't have a clue about what I'm saying, and I'm ok with it, but it seems to me that the time saved would be extremely small.

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3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Well,  if you look at Randy St. Eagles credits listed on his post, you should realize shooting with BOTH hands, like Randy, speaks volumes:

2011-2012   TN Duelist champ

2013-14,15,16 and 17    TN Senior Duelist champ

2014 and 2017     Southeast Regional Senior Duelist champ

2016 & 2017     Senior Duelist WORLD CHAMP

2018      Silver Senior Duelist WORLD CHAMP

 

Randy whoops on his fair share of good gunfighters also.

 

I will add that there is more than being able to shoot with both hands.   Randy, and other top shooters, know how to

transition using both hands:   they grab rifle and SG with both hands, they can also grab shells with both hands, etc.....

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

This ^^    Plus Hairtrigger Hayes & T-Bone Dooley.  That would be enough to convince me.  1f642.png

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Transitions are important for all shooting categories/styles.

 

The ability to shoot pistol either hand, allows the shooter to set up for transitions and also minimize their movement on the stage.

 

These small amounts of time (fraction of a second) are accumulative over 12 stages and can be the difference between a 1st place win and a 2nd place win.

 

1st place Duelist and 2nd place Duelist at Winter Range (National Championship) was 1.18 sec (0.10 sec / stage) in 2019.

 

Build the biggest "toolbox" you can as a shooter.

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I'm probably outta place commenting since I'm still learning this Duelist crap, but shooting DD is absolutely necessary if you want to be the best.

 

This doesn't mean you must shoot DD to be competitive, but you must if you want to be the best.

 

Phantom

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Posted (edited)

 

PLUS ONE too Phantom

 

PLUS ONE too Randy

 

Citing one exception doesn't change the matrix.

 

PS:  Once one is shooting Double Dualist, it's just a tiny little step to GUNFIGHTER (GUNFIGHTER is where it's AT you betcha)

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
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29 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Once one is shooting Double Dualist, it's just a tiny little step to GUNFIGHTER (GUNFIGHTER is where it's AT you betcha)

Oh nonononono and nope!

 

I may shoot DD, but me brain only works one gun at a time.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I have to say the fastest Duelist shooter I ever saw shot Double Duelist and that was Pecos Nick. 

 

Randy

For sure.... and I would suggest followed closely by Hairtrigger and El Muerto Negro.  Agree also that Doc R Pain would be in hot pursuit.

There are several "rising stars" too, around here it is Non Stop.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

 

 

This ^^    Plus Hairtrigger Hayes & T-Bone Dooley.  That would be enough to convince me.  1f642.png

 

 

Nuttin Graceful when he was really going. And don't forget Billy Boots.

 

All the best Duelist I know shoot Double Duelist. There many be a few out there not.

But most do.

 

Someone above mentioned Pecos Nick. Another top DD.

 

Edited by Anvil Al #59168
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8 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

For sure.... and I would suggest followed closely by Hairtrigger and El Muerto Negro.  Agree also that Doc R Pain would be in hot pursuit.

There are several "rising stars" too, around here it is Non Stop.

 

 

 

You got that right. Non Stop has really taken to shooting DD.

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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. . . .

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I shoot duelist with just one hand and figure I give up 1.5 seconds a stage (which is a lot) and why I've never come in higher than 2nd at WR or EOT.

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22 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. . . .

 

 

But - but - but ---- then you couldn't shoot DD !!!     1f642.png

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I tried to shoot ambidextrous but my 3rd arm kept getting out of sequence.

 

..........Widder

 

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38 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I tried to shoot ambidextrous but my 3rd arm kept getting out of sequence.

 

..........Widder

 

Way too much information...

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I shoot one handed duelist. I tried shooting the first stage of WV showdown night shoot double duelist for my first time...

 

Here's the results...

 

Screenshot_20201007-005241.png

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I think I'll stick with shooting single duelist...

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6 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

I think I'll stick with shooting single duelist...

 

After a 1 stage trial? Practice a little while dry firing, then try for a couple of monthlies in a row. DD opens up so many transition opportunities and from there it's a short jump to gunfighter if you ever want to go that route. It took 2-3 years, but now I can miss just as easily with either hand.

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15 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

I don't shoot duelist, and someone can tell me I'm death wrong and don't have a clue about what I'm saying, and I'm ok with it, but it seems to me that the time saved would be extremely small.

 

Winter Range 2019 I was 2nd place Duelist.  I missed 1st place by 1.09 seconds.  1.09 seconds over a 12 stage match.  That extremely small time saved can be VERY important. 

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Posted (edited)

Have tried shooting with the "other hand" and cannot hit the broadside of anything so I think for safety sake , mine and yours, will stick to shooting with one hand. Transition with both hands though.

Edited by MBFields
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Thank you for all the replies!  I am going to give DD style a try.  Need to order a strong lefty holster...

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Posted (edited)

Being truly ambidextrous is a very rare thing.    But shooting Double Duelist style does require a bit of ambidextrous skill.   In my limited observation, I have noticed that left handed people tend to be able to use their right hand for many things much easier than right handed people using their left.  The reason for this is pretty simple, good bad or indifferent, it's a right handed world, and many everyday tools and other items are designed with right handed use in mind.  Thus, many southpaws learn to do some things right handed out of necessity.

So does that mean that more Double Duelists are actually left handed who learned to use their right hand with their second pistol?   Probably not.   When I am at a shoot, I notice that most DD's shoulder their rifle and shotgun on their right shoulder, which likely means they are right handed and learned to use the left for pistol number two.

 

That being said, I see far fewer Double Duelists that I see Duelists.  Most I have seen transfer the left pistol to the right hand.  In fact, I also see this with people using a two handed grip.  They may draw the left pistol with the left, but they place it into the right to shoot it right handed.   But I have never seen anyone do this left handed.  The few southpaws I've seen at the range all seem to shoot ambidextrously, without regard to if they are using a one or two handed grip.  By the same token, I've never seen a lefty with a crossdraw for his right hand pistol, but it is very common for righties, as I am sure we can all attest.

 

Me, I shoot Double Duelist, and I shoulder my long guns on my left shoulder.   Does that mean I am left handed?   Well, to be honest, it's hard for me to say.  I write with my right hand, and I bat right handed, but I tend to do almost everything else left handed.  Even as I type this, I use all four fingers on my left hand to type, but only use the index finger on my right.  I suppose I should point out that my grandfather was truly ambidextrous, and I seem to have inherited some of that.   Both of my parents are right handed, as were the rest of my grandparents.  

 

All of that being said, since they are designed that way, I will operate my bolt action rifles right handed.   I also tend to shoulder my AR that way since it's an early model without the case deflector.  But I maintain that, the safety aside, the controls on a 1911 are easier to manipulate with the index finger of the left hand than with the thumb of the right.  Which is what makes the new M17 pistol very odd.   The take down lever is where the slide release is supposed to be.  Fortunately, it's very stiff.

 

Take it all with a grain of salt.  It is based on my limited and "unscientific" observations of these things.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Winter Range 2019 I was 2nd place Duelist.  I missed 1st place by 1.09 seconds.  1.09 seconds over a 12 stage match.  That extremely small time saved can be VERY important. 

When shooting DD style on a stage that ends with pistols a shooter would not even need to bother re-holstering correct?  Meaning shoot five, lower the first pistol, draw second and finish the stage.  Re-holstering both pistols can be done off the clock correct?

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16 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

PS:  Once one is shooting Double Dualist, it's just a tiny little step to GUNFIGHTER (GUNFIGHTER is where it's AT you betcha)

Yes, I have shot GF a few times at monthlies and it is a lot of fun.  Might move to a GF category eventually, but want to focus on becoming a better duelist for right now.

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23 minutes ago, July Smith said:

When shooting DD style on a stage that ends with pistols a shooter would not even need to bother re-holstering correct?  Meaning shoot five, lower the first pistol, draw second and finish the stage.  Re-holstering both pistols can be done off the clock correct?

yes & yes if pistols last.  When first pistol is empty just keep it safe, lowering to front of holster is usually my move, but as long as muzzle is safe and in position that you are comfortable in shooting second, go for it. 

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39 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

yes & yes if pistols last.  When first pistol is empty just keep it safe, lowering to front of holster is usually my move, but as long as muzzle is safe and in position that you are comfortable in shooting second, go for it. 

 

I have seen many Double Duelists draw first pistol, shoot, draw second pistol, shoot, then holster both before going on to next gun.    When I asked about it, first the first guy I saw doing it, and then after the match the MD, they both affirmed that it is not against the rules.

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1 hour ago, July Smith said:

When shooting DD style on a stage that ends with pistols a shooter would not even need to bother re-holstering correct?  Meaning shoot five, lower the first pistol, draw second and finish the stage.  Re-holstering both pistols can be done off the clock correct?

 

Exactly correct.  On a stage like that there's no reason to waste time holstering the first pistol until you're done with both.  In that scenario when I'm done with the first pistol I pull it straight back into my appendix area ensuring I keep it pointed down range.  I do this to avoid a common mistake made by one handed shooters, not grounding the non-shooting hand.  If you look at Bullseye shooters you'll often see them keep their non-shooting hand up against their chest for this very reason.  Grounding your non-shooting hand keeps it from flailing around and possibly throwing you off target.  So whether pistols are first, middle or last on a stage, have your non-shooting hand planted somewhere.  

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