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Blazin' Kane

Spectator carry rules at events?

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Good afternoon everyone,

 

I'm wondering what the rules are for spectators carrying in holsters. I may have missed it in the handbook, but didn't see anything there. October in Midland will by my wife and my first event, if I can't find any ammo to practice with in the meantime we'll only be there as dressed spectators. Normally I don't go anywhere without a firearm, but don't want to cause any trouble at the event. Apologies in advance if this has been covered in detail.

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Posted (edited)

SASS spectators are usually "up close and personal", in other words, on the range or in the shooting bay.  SASS calls for a "cold range" except between loading and unloading tables.    You as a spectator will probably be handed firearms to shoot at the match.  Then at the unloading table, any firearm you have in possession has to be cleared and shown empty (oh-oh).

 

Short answer - leave your carry guns in your vehicle during the match.   Everyone else around you is probably doing the same.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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1 minute ago, Blazin' Kane said:

Good afternoon everyone,

 

I'm wondering what the rules are for spectators carrying in holsters. I may have missed it in the handbook, but didn't see anything there. October in Midland will by my wife and my first event, if I can't find any ammo to practice with in the meantime we'll only be there as dressed spectators. Normally I don't go anywhere without a firearm, but don't want to cause any trouble at the event. Apologies in advance if this has been covered in detail.

The handbook are guidelines for SHOOTERS registered at SASS events.

Match directors may limit your access to the active event.

 

Local laws and range rules would govern non-Shooters.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

The handbook are guidelines for SHOOTERS registered at SASS events.

Match directors may limit your access to the active event.

 

Local laws and range rules would govern non-Shooters.

 

 

 

Appreciate the responses.

 

Local laws say I would be able to open carry in my holster. I do see that SASS encourages spectators to dress the part as well as competitors, and that would include my leather and firearm. Perhaps this would be better addressed by me asking the local club bosses?

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Posted (edited)

Blazin' Kane , are you talking about Midland , TX , the Comanche Trail Shootists ??

That was my home club for ten years. They do have a "cold range" , just leave your concealed carry piece in your car.

They probably won't care if you wear your sixguns while watching the stages. 

And tell them all Rex says HOWDEE. 

And welcome to the ranks.

Rex :D

Edited by Rex M Rugers #6621

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Just now, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

Blazin' Kane , are you talking about Midland , TX , the Comanche Trail Shootists ??

That was my home club for ten years. They do have a "cold range" , just leave your carry piece in your car.

And tell them all Rex says HOWDEE. 

And welcome to the ranks.

Rex :D

 

Yes sir! I'm excited to meet the locals and get started. Strangely I've been shooting SA revolvers and lever actions for 30 years, and had never heard of SASS until recently at a gun show in Odessa. No worries about leaving my Ubertis at home, but it is funny that I can carry in Walmart, but not at a shooting event. Hopefully I'll stumble across ammo and be able to actually get on the range!

 

Again, appreciate the feedback everyone.

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It would probably be more beneficial all around if you volunteer to help out wherever they will let you.  Even if it's picking up brass.  

 

I try to bring want to be shooters over to the loading table.  I can explain the loading duties and they can see the verities of guns and ammo,  categories,  etc. They can meet the shooters.  I can explain the scenarios and how the match is ran. 

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4 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

It would probably be more beneficial all around if you volunteer to help out wherever they will let you.  Even if it's picking up brass.  

 

I try to bring want to be shooters over to the loading table.  I can explain the loading duties and they can see the verities of guns and ammo,  categories,  etc. They can meet the shooters.  I can explain the scenarios and how the match is ran. 

 

Great advice! Much better to help out and learn the flow first than try to compete I think. Thank you sir.

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I just remembered something. The October match has always been the annual "Comanche Moon" shoot , Sat. and Sun.  Twice the fun.

Rex :lol:

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The only people we ever let away from the firing line with a loaded gun was LEO's, on or off duty.

 

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8 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

The only people we ever let away from the firing line with a loaded gun was LEO's, on or off duty.

 

 

What if I'm a much better shot and fighter than 95% of all LEOs? Haha, no, I have no problem at all respecting whatever rules are put forth and I'm very excited to be part of this crew. I just found out my existing Marlin 336 won't work for matches so watching and helping for a while is the perfect fit for now.

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24 minutes ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

What if I'm a much better shot and fighter than 95% of all LEOs? Haha, no, I have no problem at all respecting whatever rules are put forth and I'm very excited to be part of this crew. I just found out my existing Marlin 336 won't work for matches so watching and helping for a while is the perfect fit for now.

I watched for about 10 months before I had 4 guns to shoot.

Second match I started setting steel.

Fourth match I graduated to spotting.

By the time I was shooting I knew every job except TO pretty well.

 

You have stumbled on one of my pet peeves.

We are all 2nd Amendment friendly BUT leave your carry gun in the car. Makes ZERO sense to me.

 

Waimea

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Range rules rule this one IMO.

 

Last year at a non-SASS range where I was a spectator at a competition, I was allowed my unloaded carry, and a loaded mag. This year, I had to leave it all in the car.

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17 minutes ago, Waimea said:

I watched for about 10 months before I had 4 guns to shoot.

Second match I started setting steel.

Fourth match I graduated to spotting.

By the time I was shooting I knew every job except TO pretty well.

 

You have stumbled on one of my pet peeves.

We are all 2nd Amendment friendly BUT leave your carry gun in the car. Makes ZERO sense to me.

 

Waimea

 

Please don't think I'm here to cause trouble, because I'm not. But my six gun, resting on an empty chamber, secured in my leather, presents zero danger to anyone. If I can't carry that, even as part of a "costume" that is period correct at an event where people are actually shooting guns, then its not a pro 2nd amendment event. My "carry gun" is sometimes the same gun used in these competitions. 

 

5 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Range rules rule this one IMO.

 

Last year at a non-SASS range where I was a spectator at a competition, I was allowed my unloaded carry, and a loaded mag. This year, I had to leave it all in the car.

 

100% respect for that. Any private organization or property has the right to set the rules regarding carrying firearms. From Albertsons to SASS to Hooker's ranch.

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Unless the range has specific rules that states that you can't carry, I figure it's a Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Leave it in your holster or pocket and know one will know you have it.

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2 minutes ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

Please don't think I'm here to cause trouble, because I'm not. But my six gun, resting on an empty chamber, secured in my leather, presents zero danger to anyone. If I can't carry that, even as part of a "costume" that is period correct at an event where people are actually shooting guns, then its not a pro 2nd amendment event. My "carry gun" is sometimes the same gun used in these competitions. 

 

 

100% respect for that. Any private organization or property has the right to set the rules regarding carrying firearms. From Albertsons to SASS to Hooker's ranch.

 

I have had conversations with range owners, gun shop owners, etc that are supposed to be 2A friendly but rules is rules.

Okie dokie.

 

It's a can o' worms and you will never convince anyone to change. I stopped trying a while ago. But it still toasts my shorts.

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1 minute ago, Waimea said:

 

I have had conversations with range owners, gun shop owners, etc that are supposed to be 2A friendly but rules is rules.

Okie dokie.

 

It's a can o' worms and you will never convince anyone to change. I stopped trying a while ago. But it still toasts my shorts.

 

I completely agree with you and respect the rules of any private property. I either don't go there, or I follow their rules. HEB is the only local business that bans open carry (.30.07 posted), so I conceal there. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't go there. I'm not trying to change the rules here at all, I just find it a bit ironic is all. 

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We've told spectators that, "only registered shooters may wear guns". Works well and doesn't get the spectator upset.

 

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Monthly matches are the time to get other folks used to a person carrying. My club hosts the Tennessee State Match, Regulators Reckoning. We welcome visitors for the Reckoning but ask that only registered shooters carry SASS guns. If a spectator has a concealed carry piece and it stays that way then no harm,no foul. We would immediately be asking someone we did not know to place their firearm in their vehicle. We try to assess new shooters comfort, knowledge and responsible firearms handling,before shooting their first match. A large state or above level match is not the place to learn the "how we do it" of SASS. We want to welcome folks but must be cautious until a new person has demonstrated their skills, willingness to learn our ways and desire to join. We are all 2A and we have also seen lots of folks who refused to "do it our way", they seldom come around for long. We would like you to stay and join the fun.

 

Imis

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5 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

Appreciate the responses.

 

Local laws say I would be able to open carry in my holster. I do see that SASS encourages spectators to dress the part as well as competitors, and that would include my leather and firearm. Perhaps this would be better addressed by me asking the local club bosses?

 

Participants won't be carrying loaded guns, I'd bet dollars to donuts no club will allow a spectator to do so.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

What if I'm a much better shot and fighter than 95% of all LEOs? Haha, no, I have no problem at all respecting whatever rules are put forth and I'm very excited to be part of this crew. I just found out my existing Marlin 336 won't work for matches so watching and helping for a while is the perfect fit for now.

I don’t believe safety has much to do with shooting and fighting skills. 

5 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

Good afternoon everyone,

 

I'm wondering what the rules are for spectators carrying in holsters. I may have missed it in the handbook, but didn't see anything there. October in Midland will by my wife and my first event, if I can't find any ammo to practice with in the meantime we'll only be there as dressed spectators. Normally I don't go anywhere without a firearm, but don't want to cause any trouble at the event. Apologies in advance if this has been covered in detail.

As others have said, SASS rules cover participants, not spectators. Around here the vast majority of SASS matches are hosted by a range that is not owned by the SASS club. In those cases the SASS club is not able to enforce consequences on spectators. It’s up to the host range to create and enforce rules for people on the range.

 

It’s not uncommon for club members shooting on other bays to come watch SASS matches. Often they have the gun they’ve been shooting with holstered.  I’m not aware of a SASS member ever confronting such a person on the status of their gun.

2 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

Please don't think I'm here to cause trouble, because I'm not. But my six gun, resting on an empty chamber, secured in my leather, presents zero danger to anyone. If I can't carry that, even as part of a "costume" that is period correct at an event where people are actually shooting guns, then its not a pro 2nd amendment event. My "carry gun" is sometimes the same gun used in these competitions. 

 

 

100% respect for that. Any private organization or property has the right to set the rules regarding carrying firearms. From Albertsons to SASS to Hooker's ranch.

True, but the PM knows that participants have been checked at the ULT to ensure their guns are empty. You may ‘know’ your gun is empty, but the participants don’t. You’re asking them to trust the competence of someone they don’t know. 
 

I assume ALL guns are loaded unless I personally verify otherwise. I also assume anyone I don’t know (and some I do know) who is armed is apt to do something stupid with that gun.
 

Having said that, as a TO or PM I don’t believe it’s my responsibility to enforce range rules on non participants. What am I going to do, DQ someone who isn’t shooting the match? Order them off a range that I’m not a member of?

 

Unless they’re doing something blatantly stupid I’m not getting involved. At most I might try to get them off the stages we’re using. For that I would likely need a member of the range.
 

It’s never happened. 

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Check with the individual range and see what their rules are. Many ranges are "cold" for non-shooters. You can carry your weapon but it cannot be loaded. 

 

BS

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1 hour ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Monthly matches are the time to get other folks used to a person carrying. My club hosts the Tennessee State Match, Regulators Reckoning. We welcome visitors for the Reckoning but ask that only registered shooters carry SASS guns. If a spectator has a concealed carry piece and it stays that way then no harm,no foul. We would immediately be asking someone we did not know to place their firearm in their vehicle. We try to assess new shooters comfort, knowledge and responsible firearms handling,before shooting their first match. A large state or above level match is not the place to learn the "how we do it" of SASS. We want to welcome folks but must be cautious until a new person has demonstrated their skills, willingness to learn our ways and desire to join. We are all 2A and we have also seen lots of folks who refused to "do it our way", they seldom come around for long. We would like you to stay and join the fun.

 

Imis

 

Please do not assume because someone is new to SASS that they're new to firearms or single action revolvers. I've been heavily involved with both for over 30 years now, I shoot thousands and thousands of rounds a year, I'm SWAT trained, blah blah blah. This post was merely to assess the rules onsite. I may not agree with them, but I'm more than happy to abide by them. If not, I've already paid my membership fee so no harm, no foul. Big Brother has already assessed my competence to openly or conceal carry a firearm in my state. I would think a pro 2A organization would follow suit...but I was wrong.

 

35 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I don’t believe safety has much to do with shooting and fighting skills. 

As others have said, SASS rules cover participants, not spectators. Around here the vast majority of SASS matches are hosted by a range that is not owned by the SASS club. In those cases the SASS club is not able to enforce consequences on spectators. It’s up to the host range to create and enforce rules for people on the range.

 

It’s not uncommon for club members shooting on other bays to come watch SASS matches. Often they have the gun they’ve been shooting with holstered.  I’m not aware of a SASS member ever confronting such a person on the status of their gun.

True, but the PM knows that participants have been checked at the ULT to ensure their guns are empty. You may ‘know’ your gun is empty, but the participants don’t. You’re asking them to trust the competence of someone they don’t know. 
 

I assume ALL guns are loaded unless I personally verify otherwise. I also assume anyone I don’t know (and some I do know) who is armed is apt to do something stupid with that gun.
 

Having said that, as a TO or PM I don’t believe it’s my responsibility to enforce range rules on non participants. What am I going to do, DQ someone who isn’t shooting the match? Order them off a range that I’m not a member of?

 

Unless they’re doing something blatantly stupid I’m not getting involved. At most I might try to get them off the stages we’re using. For that I would likely need a member of the range.
 

It’s never happened. 

 

Safety has EVERYTHING to do with fighting and shooting skills. If I use my fighting skills and kill someone in self-defense I will most likely be serving time in prison. Same with shooting, if I disregard my surroundings and safety and my bullet penetrates the softspot of someone trying to kill me and hits someone behind them, I am completely liable, and rightly so. Safety is the first rule of martial arts training and shooting alike. 

 

If I'm not competing in some type of sport, but I'm carrying a firearm, that firearm will not be unloaded. I don't believe in carrying paper weights. HOWEVER, I am more than happy to submit to the rules of an organization that I want to be a part of. Its the right of SASS or the private property owner to tell me I can't carry a gun. Again, I can disagree with it and comply all at the same time.

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Posted (edited)

so whats the problem with a "cold range" rule ? its clear and there is no issue with carry off range , we have a remarkable record of safe shooting and part of it has to do with the range rules , why must someone always insist to carry on a "cold range" ???????

 

oh , BTW we are not trying to kill anyone at our shoots , only targets , is it a problem to get with the program ??

Edited by watab kid

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, watab kid said:

so whats the problem with a "cold range" rule ? its clear and there is no issue with carry off range , we have a remarkable record of safe shooting and part of it has to do with the range rules , why must someone always insist to carry on a "cold range" ???????

 

oh , BTW we are not trying to kill anyone at our shoots , only targets , is it a problem to get with the program ??

 

The problem is that I do not personally like being told I need to disarm. Most of the time I avoid places that make that request via 30.07 or 30.06 in Texas. I value my right to carry a loaded firearm everywhere I go, whether it be my P229 Legion, my 1911s or my six shooters. That's freedom.

 

HOWEVER, it is not a problem to "get with the program" and I'm more than happy to obey whatever rules are set forth by private property owners so that I can be a part of SASS. Check my previous posts where I've said the same. I figure, if anything goes bad, there are more than enough heavily armed shootists that know what they're doing to ensure safety and security at any SASS match or meet..even if its not me.

Edited by Blazin' Kane

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I am not aware of any organized shooting sport that allows anyone to have loaded firearms in the general area. Every sport that I am aware of loads on the firing line , and has to show clear after shooting the stage or course of fire. Many CAS shooters carry their sixguns holstered between stages , and I have also been to IDPA and 3-gun matches where shooters carry their empty pistols holstered. But they have been certified empty.

Has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment rights , just range rules for safety.

Rex :D , who leaves his on the gun cart. No use carrying extra weight.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

I am not aware of any organized shooting sport that allows anyone to have loaded firearms in the general area. Every sport that I am aware of loads on the firing line , and has to show clear after shooting the stage or course of fire. Many CAS shooters carry their sixguns holstered between stages , and I have also been to IDPA and 3-gun matches where shooters carry their empty pistols holstered. But they have been certified empty.

Has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment rights , just range rules for safety.

Rex :D , who leaves his on the gun cart. No use carrying extra weight.

 

Rex, can I ask if you carry a loaded firearm outside of an organized shooting event?

Edited by Blazin' Kane

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Almost daily, for sure when I leave my house.  My carry piece is in my car during a match , and when I leave the range , it is either IWB or in my pocket , depending on what is with me that day.

Rex :D

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Just now, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

Almost daily, for sure when I leave my house.  My carry piece is in my car during a match , and when I leave the range , it is either IWB or in my pocket , depending on what is with me that day.

Rex :D

 

Fair enough amigo. Hey guys, I'm not here to buck the system and I respect SASS. You can disagree with a rule and still be happy to comply. With SASS, this is one of those rare exceptions.

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5 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

What if I'm a much better shot and fighter than 95% of all LEOs? Haha, no, I have no problem at all respecting whatever rules are put forth and I'm very excited to be part of this crew. I just found out my existing Marlin 336 won't work for matches so watching and helping for a while is the perfect fit for now.

 

My guess is that a good many of US are a better (and much faster) shooter than 95% of all LEO's.

 

Heck, there are many SASS members who are LEO's or retired from some Law Enforcement Agency.   Many others are

Vets and/or combat Vets.  

 

But the great thing about SASS is that we get to leave that world behind for a few hours and play Cowboy, just like Gene and Roy.

We can do it with family (Wife and kids) and friends of all sorts.   Heck, you'll even find a few miscreants among us to help you

share a laugh and enjoy the day.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

My guess is that a good many of US are a better (and much faster) shooter than 95% of all LEO's.

 

Heck, there are many SASS members who are LEO's or retired from some Law Enforcement Agency.   Many others are

Vets and/or combat Vets.  

 

But the great thing about SASS is that we get to leave that world behind for a few hours and play Cowboy, just like Gene and Roy.

We can do it with family (Wife and kids) and friends of all sorts.   Heck, you'll even find a few miscreants among us to help you

share a laugh and enjoy the day.

 

..........Widder

 

 

I love it amigo.

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8 hours ago, Blazin' Kane said:

 

Please do not assume because someone is new to SASS that they're new to firearms or single action revolvers. I've been heavily involved with both for over 30 years now, I shoot thousands and thousands of rounds a year, I'm SWAT trained, blah blah blah. This post was merely to assess the rules onsite. I may not agree with them, but I'm more than happy to abide by them. If not, I've already paid my membership fee so no harm, no foul. Big Brother has already assessed my competence to openly or conceal carry a firearm in my state. I would think a pro 2A organization would follow suit...but I was wrong.

 

 

Safety has EVERYTHING to do with fighting and shooting skills. If I use my fighting skills and kill someone in self-defense I will most likely be serving time in prison. Same with shooting, if I disregard my surroundings and safety and my bullet penetrates the softspot of someone trying to kill me and hits someone behind them, I am completely liable, and rightly so. Safety is the first rule of martial arts training and shooting alike. 

 

If I'm not competing in some type of sport, but I'm carrying a firearm, that firearm will not be unloaded. I don't believe in carrying paper weights. HOWEVER, I am more than happy to submit to the rules of an organization that I want to be a part of. Its the right of SASS or the private property owner to tell me I can't carry a gun. Again, I can disagree with it and comply all at the same time.

This is, in my opinion, simply not true. 

 

I know quite a few people who are excellent shots, probably would be great in a gunfight, but their gun handling is not particularly safe.  

 

I'm certainly not saying thats true of you, but I am saying that just because you're very accurate with a gun, or can draw one really quickly, doesn't mean you're automatically safe.  Nor does SWAT training mean you're a safe shooter.  As Widder says, quite a few of us are better shots than 95% of LE.  No offense to LE, but that's not saying much.

 

Forgive me, but I doubt anyone cares about what Big Brother thinks about your competence given Big Brother is notoriously incompetent.  I have a pulse, I'm over 21, and I have a clean criminal record, so Big Brother says I can carry, whooptedo.

 

Around here, all the ranges are 'cold.'  It doesn't really matter what the SASS club might 'like' to do, if they want to continue to utilize the ranges they have to follow range rules.  As Rex said, it has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment and everything to do with safety.  I've never owned a range, but I suspect some of the rules are related to insurance requirements as well.  It's interesting to me that you have all this experience, but the concept of a cold range, and the fact that almost all shooting disciplines (if not all) don't allow loaded guns off the line is new to you.

 

Welcome to SASS it's great to know we're getting a highly skilled, SWAT trained, better than 95% of police, carries loaded guns, genuine bad a$$ kinda guy!

 

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Just my observation here. But if a range were to allow spectators to carry loaded weapons then why restrict competitors to a small, designated place where their weapons may be loaded. Wouldn't it follow that if spectators could walk around like that then so could anyone. Also, while it sounds as though Blazin' Kane is absolutely qualified to carry, what about Joe Blow? Who is going to ascertain whether someone is safe and sane to be walking around with guns? in Texas you have to pass a test to have that right with a pistol (IMHO a bigger affront to 2nd amendment rights), but what about places like Arizona?

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13 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

We've told spectators that, "only registered shooters may wear guns". Works well and doesn't get the spectator upset.

 

This used to be stated in the Shooters Handbook.  I didn’t realize until I looked for it that the language was eliminated in about 2017.  Probably as a result of eliminating rules that don’t carry a penalty.

 

I can recall one spectator who showed up with a revolver.  Instead of barking rules at him, I welcomed him to the match, explained that the rules (at the time) allowed only registered participants to carry firearms but we would treat him as a participant for the day.  I explained that our revolvers stay unloaded until we are at the LT and had him “show clear” at a table.  From there we gave him an orientation and lent him guns to shoot a stage or two.

 

My home club is a “cold range”.  Insurance requirements being what they are, I’d be surprised if a club allowed guests who are not participants in a match have a loaded firearm.

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