Gunsmithing

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

It does not make since why all of our best how to guys do not make gun repair and tuning videos over on YouTube?  Wire logic has always dictated that the more we fix our own that the more the Pros make in the long run.  I am in need of a new ‘73 Win model so would like to see  Cody post a complete action job with short stroke please.  While we are at it, does anyone know who really shines on  Schofields?

[Joe LaFives #5481]

I believe Cody still welds his codymatic's - unless you are an excellent welder , a video from him would probably have no value. 

[Hoss]

First, go buy a Dremel tool! 

[Old Man Graybeard]

As I said to one of the top smiths in our world...a Dremel tool can be a gunsmiths best friend or worst enemy...all depending on whose hands it is in...

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Most of us, myself included, has no idea what our gunsmith Pros get involved with when fixing

our guns.

Their milling machines, lathes, welders, etc..... can't be put on video to teach us in 15 minutes

the things their 20+ years of experience has projected them into their being respected as

a Pro.

 

Besides, why do you think they want to give up that high paying job.

I bet they make an average of $10-$15 per hour running those machines ..... 

 

Truthfully, it ain't that simple to just make a video and teach certain stuff.

Some problems can have 1/2 dozen cures and those Pros work within the parameters of all of them.

Its hard to put stuff like that on a 15 minute video.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Slapping forehead - the things some folks want for free! 

 

Just send him a 73 and let him work it over, like the rest of your pards do. 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

[Palo Verde, SASS # 56522]

4 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Slapping forehead - the things some folks want for free! 

 

Just send him a 73 and let him work it over, like the rest of your pards do. 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

G.Joe, I don't think this post is meant to be taken seriously..    Surely, ol'  Bob is just funnin' us.  

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep, when I start using emoji's, I figure there's a joke going around somewhere.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

I'll make a video showing how to ruin any type of gun we use in this game for free.  Just send me a couple of guns and we're off to the races. 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

the HARDEST repair , is to fix someone s mistake 

I have had to RED TAG , (JUNK) , several that others have "worked " on 

depending how much damage has been done , it in not worth attempting to repair , and many times unsafe 

 

 CB 

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Joe, I have not looked very deeply into them yet BUT can assure you that there are plenty of them welding videos on u-tube.  This one guy just got a new Harbor Frate welding machine and is already doing a lot of friendly teaching as he learns with his new machine.  There are opportunities tp be learned everywhere if we are just willing to keep our eyes open.  The wife says I can not leave the house again until this newest virus goes away, thinking three months or so would give us all lots of time to learn these new skills.  And for what its worth I have a brand new Dremel  for Christmas a few years back and am just chomping at the bits for a excuse to learn how to use it!

 

PS: Widder I woodnt waste my time on a 15 minute video, I am sure any one who was really wanting to help would muster at least an hour or two to make it more complete.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

One of the biggest reasons is called, liability.....

Like when incorrect load data is published. 

Very few here know how to run a vertical mill or lathe. 

To say nothing on making the needed fixtures and tooling neccessary.

OLG 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Slowhand Bob,

 

I'm sure many good smiths would love to have the time and convenience to produce a

good video.  A video that would show all their tools, methods, etc.....

 

But there is probably very little that some of these 'Pros'  can teach their trade as a simple 1-2-3, finished

product.

 

Before I ever started my dremel to work on my first Marlin, I talked with Lassiter and Curly Bill Kelly

on the phone numerous 'lengthy' times to help get a better understanding of  the info they were 

sharing with me.

 

THEN, when I got inside a few Marlins, so many different aspects of fixing a problem, without

creating another, would raise its Gremlin head and snip at my efforts.

Let me share a normal example:

 

My phone rings and TN Williams tells me his Marlin ain't feeding right.

I ask:  

1. is it not feeding at all  (bad mojo)

2. is it jamming while feeding into the chamber (Extractor to stiff, no crimp on ammo, bad chamber, etc...)

3. is it jamming coming out of the mag tube onto the carrier (small portal hole, carrier not dropping fully, etc...)

4. is it jamming with the bullet still partially in the portal  (either round to long OR likely timing to fast).

Is it jamming with the round completely on the carrier with the rim of the next round poking out of

the portal (this is likely slow timing).

5. is it jamming with the mag full or only the last round  (these can be tricky)

6. will it fail to function with the rifle empty (these are also tricky)

7. if the rifle is empty, is the lever catching on the downward motion (head scratcher)  Sometimes, the tip of

the lever is dragging on the top of the receiver.

8. if the rifle is empty, is the lever catching on the upward motion (possible bad interaction between lever and firing pin

located in the area of the bolt slot)

9.  if the lever moves downward and upwards with no problems, does the carrier

rise.  If NO, the plunger stud has come out of the carrier or the plunger stud spring is broken)

10.  how much does it rise on the downward stroke lever (this coincides with other issues above)

11.  how much does it rise on the upward stroke of the lever (this can, but not always, determine if the

lever is correctly shaped for correct upward timing.

PLEASE NOTE:  upward timing of the carrier is 2-fold.  It has to rise so far but not too far, and it has

to maintain its upward position a certain duration before falling back down.

12.  do the 'wings' on the front of the carrier hit the inside tip of the receiver when it rises upward

towards the chamber.   If YES, either the wings are too high or the timing is too 'brisk' when the

carrier pops upwards.

13.  does the carrier stop slightly below the chamber entrance.   This coincides with #12.

 

After all this,  we discover that he forgot to crimp his ammo.

These examples I noted above actually determine what action the Gunsmith needs to take

in order to remedy the problem(s).

It would take a lengthy amount of time and effort to put this stuff  'correctly' on a video.   Thats probably why

nobody has done it.

 

I've help many a Pard on the phone for great lengths of time when they need it.

But admittedly, some I could help and some not so much.

But there's just no way I could ever find a good, concise way to video all the variations on

things to check, just because someone has a simple feeding issue on the 1894 Marlin.

 

Now, can you imagine what it would take to do multiple videos?

Do you already have the experience with trial and error to know how hard the steel might be before

you put a hot torch to it?   

Do you know what rod you need to use to make a soft weld or hard weld?

 

These are things those 'Pros' have acquired thru years of efforts (some with good results, some not).

But ya gotta understand WHY it would be most difficult to put these things on a video, even

a short 2-hour video.

 

Its more than just changing out a hammer spring or smoothing up a bad burr on the trigger.

 

Seriously, I wish I could produce a quality video on a couple procedures to help folks,

but I'm afraid it would fall short of a quality video and leave the efforts of others to follow

a little short.

 

For the Record, I have had a couple of our well known 'Pros' call me on the phone

with a question concerning a problem Marlin.

Likewise, I have also consulted a couple 'Pros' with an issue I found hard to remedy.

With that being said,  how can even a Pro cover such issues?

 

Sorri for the lengthy reply, but I wanted to help you understand the answer as to  "WHY"

the Pros don't make a video to help everyone.

 

Have a good day.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

 

[bgavin]

23 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Truthfully, it ain't that simple to just make a video and teach certain stuff.

You cannot hand a guy a cordless drill and a web site, and make him into a dentist.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

1 minute ago, bgavin said:

You cannot hand a guy a cordless drill and a web site, and make him into a dentist.

 

Zackly!

 

I was sitting here thinking that you can give someone a guitar and show them how to make

a 'C' chord, but that doesn't mean they can play with the Eagles.

 

..........Widder

 

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Lots of Skills Come with Experience ,,,, Lots of Experience comes from Mistakes ,,, Mistakes Help  You not to Make More ,,,, And at the end, That and a bunch of Head scratching and Expensive Tools .... Is what helps make a Good Smith ...

Most Smiths do not Charge near enough, as they love Guns and Like most shooters ,,,, 

 

Jabez Cowboy 

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

This is explained a lot easier than many of the comments reflect.

Many professional gunsmiths make a living doing this work.

Johnny Meadows

[Turkey Flats Jack]

10 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Slowhand Bob,

 

I'm sure many good smiths would love to have the time and convenience to produce a

good video.  A video that would show all their tools, methods, etc.....

 

But there is probably very little that some of these 'Pros'  can teach their trade as a simple 1-2-3, finished

product.

 

Before I ever started my dremel to work on my first Marlin, I talked with Lassiter and Curly Bill Kelly

on the phone numerous 'lengthy' times to help get a better understanding of  the info they were 

sharing with me.

 

THEN, when I got inside a few Marlins, so many different aspects of fixing a problem, without

creating another, would raise its Gremlin head and snip at my efforts.

Let me share a normal example:

 

My phone rings and TN Williams tells me his Marlin ain't feeding right.

I ask:  

1. is it not feeding at all  (bad mojo)

2. is it jamming while feeding into the chamber (Extractor to stiff, no crimp on ammo, bad chamber, etc...)

3. is it jamming coming out of the mag tube onto the carrier (small portal hole, carrier not dropping fully, etc...)

4. is it jamming with the bullet still partially in the portal  (either round to long OR likely timing to fast).

Is it jamming with the round completely on the carrier with the rim of the next round poking out of

the portal (this is likely slow timing).

5. is it jamming with the mag full or only the last round  (these can be tricky)

6. will it fail to function with the rifle empty (these are also tricky)

7. if the rifle is empty, is the lever catching on the downward motion (head scratcher)  Sometimes, the tip of

the lever is dragging on the top of the receiver.

8. if the rifle is empty, is the lever catching on the upward motion (possible bad interaction between lever and firing pin

located in the area of the bolt slot)

9.  if the lever moves downward and upwards with no problems, does the carrier

rise.  If NO, the plunger stud has come out of the carrier or the plunger stud spring is broken)

10.  how much does it rise on the downward stroke lever (this coincides with other issues above)

11.  how much does it rise on the upward stroke of the lever (this can, but not always, determine if the

lever is correctly shaped for correct upward timing.

PLEASE NOTE:  upward timing of the carrier is 2-fold.  It has to rise so far but not too far, and it has

to maintain its upward position a certain duration before falling back down.

12.  do the 'wings' on the front of the carrier hit the inside tip of the receiver when it rises upward

towards the chamber.   If YES, either the wings are too high or the timing is too 'brisk' when the

carrier pops upwards.

13.  does the carrier stop slightly below the chamber entrance.   This coincides with #12.

 

After all this,  we discover that he forgot to crimp his ammo.

These examples I noted above actually determine what action the Gunsmith needs to take

in order to remedy the problem(s).

It would take a lengthy amount of time and effort to put this stuff  'correctly' on a video.   Thats probably why

nobody has done it.

 

I've help many a Pard on the phone for great lengths of time when they need it.

But admittedly, some I could help and some not so much.

But there's just no way I could ever find a good, concise way to video all the variations on

things to check, just because someone has a simple feeding issue on the 1894 Marlin.

 

Now, can you imagine what it would take to do multiple videos?

Do you already have the experience with trial and error to know how hard the steel might be before

you put a hot torch to it?   

Do you know what rod you need to use to make a soft weld or hard weld?

 

These are things those 'Pros' have acquired thru years of efforts (some with good results, some not).

But ya gotta understand WHY it would be most difficult to put these things on a video, even

a short 2-hour video.

 

Its more than just changing out a hammer spring or smoothing up a bad burr on the trigger.

 

Seriously, I wish I could produce a quality video on a couple procedures to help folks,

but I'm afraid it would fall short of a quality video and leave the efforts of others to follow

a little short.

 

For the Record, I have had a couple of our well known 'Pros' call me on the phone

with a question concerning a problem Marlin.

Likewise, I have also consulted a couple 'Pros' with an issue I found hard to remedy.

With that being said,  how can even a Pro cover such issues?

 

Sorri for the lengthy reply, but I wanted to help you understand the answer as to  "WHY"

the Pros don't make a video to help everyone.

 

Have a good day.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

 

And this is the very reason I don't attempt the widdermatic on the wife's Marlin even though there's a great written tutorial on muraders homestead page. Pretty sure I'd mess something up and then a Smith would have to charge me double to fix my mistake rather than the normal price to do it.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

8 hours ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

This is explained a lot easier than many of the comments reflect.

Many professional gunsmiths make a living doing this work.

Johnny Meadows

 

Howdy JM.

I've seen the videos where someone is showing how to change out a spring or insert

a front sight.  And similar stuff.

And, I know there are some VERY GOOD books on Winchester rifles an Colt pistols that

some super knowledgable folks have authored.

 

But the OT is asking about videos that show "repair and tuning" on YouTube and such.

Admittedly, I must have missed those videos.   

 

If those videos are out there, hopefully somebody will post the titles of them so all of us

can view and glean from their content.

 

..........Widder

 

[Cypress Sam, SASS #10915]

Gunsmithing is a skill acquired by many years of training as a machinist and metal work accompanied by a love of guns.

 

Teaching is an art form that some were born with honed by years of training and a love of people.

 

Video production is also a special art and some talents so specialized that I have no idea even what they are.

 

It would seem to me a bit unlikely that these three highly specialized skills are going to combine and have someone offer up a high quality production for free to a very limited audience.

 

That said, I’ve found that many of the very talented gunsmiths will freely answer your questions if you ask.  Widder spent an hour or so explaining to me how to get a Marlin extractor to work.  I called Bob Munden to ask about tuning a Colt action and ended up getting an hour and a half tutorial on how he did a complete action job.  Lassiter has been very open and helpful on a variety of problems that I’ve run into over the years.  Coyote Cap explained the function of a 97 to me (how the hell did John Browning ever come up with that thing?).  Just Wild Bill (Bob Brotherton, one of the early pioneers in the development of short stroked 73’s) spent several hours with me discussing function of the toggle link action (11 degrees was the secret).  He also showed me how to free spin a Vaquero with a piece of wire and a dab of J.B. Weld.  
 

The point is that if many of these very talented professionals, will gladly spend their time with a rank amateur like me, some of them would probably help you too if you asked.  They are most likely not going into the free tutorial video business though!

[45 Dragoon]

What about videos that are already out there? Some I've seen are pretty scary!!  A couple of hints:  -if they continuously keep calling the part by the wrong name (or even 2 or 3 names)  or

 - if they tell you up front to get extra parts, lots of parts, parts are cheap   .  .  .  

 

 I would say watch the video to see what NOT to do !!!  I've seen posts with advice given that came from such videos .  .  .  I've had to replace parts that were "tuned" by following the crap these guys teach!!

  As Widder said, a really good book or manual is an excellent source. It will give you nomenclature of parts, "how to" sections, correct sequence for fitting/tuning (so you don't go in circles). That at least will give you enough information to familiarize yourself so you can tell if the video is legit or just some Yahoo showing you how screw up your revolvers!

 

  Also, like Widder says, nothing can help more than talking with those that can explain exactly why and how, what leads to failure or longevity.  I spent many many hours on the phone with Jim Martin. When he described hows and whys, I could understand exactly what he meant.

 

 I've considered doing a video several times but until I get caught up, it won't happen (don't start, I'm making good headway now!!)!  To do it correctly would take hours and hours including talk of methods and techniques. 

 

 It's a good thought though!!

 Mike 

[Three Gun Cole]

Gunsmith work on cowboy guns isn’t brain surgery,  however,  It’s beyond what most of us shooters can handle well.

 

If you want guns to work correctly and be as close to 100% reliable,  best bet is to find a good Smith for each type of gun and send your guns to “The Guy”   

Cowboy Carty does amazing work to the new Winchester’s.

Lassiter is great with an 87 or 97,  or colt clones.

Marshall Harland Wolfe is the guy for Colt’s 

I really miss Colt McAllister, he was the master of the uberti 73 rifles and the Winchester 1897’s  

Colt hasn’t been doing much on guns since 2017 

 

If you’re handy give it a go.   I wish you luck.

I’m just smart enough to know that my guns need to be perfect to help me compete at the level I’m at.

When their less than 100% I’m buggered for the match.

 

Good luck,

 

3GC

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

HMMM, great topic with great replies AND I assure you I will consider carefully on my next move.  In the mean time does anyone know if Ruger can weld and redrill a boogered up hole in the frame of a stainless Single Six while I am still looking for the right video?

[Cat Brules]

On 3/21/2020 at 4:27 PM, Hoss said:

First, go buy a Dremel tool! 

HOSS!  Be nice now...ya heah?!    

(“Go buy a Dremel tool!”)