PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 After considerable discussion, the combined WB/ROC has come to a final decision regarding the question as to the legality of "angled cartridge loops" on gun/ammo belts and slides: Laterally-angled cartridge loops on belts and ammo slides are LEGAL and ALLOWED for SASS competition use. This ruling rescinds all previous rulings and opinions. LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body e.g. /// \\\ \I/ EDIT: The clarification allowing laterally-angled ammo loops on BELTS & SLIDES does NOT apply to BANDOLIERS. Cartridge Firearms A cartridge (also called a round or a shell) is a type of ammunition packaging a bullet or shot, a propellant substance (usually either smokeless powder or black powder) and a primer within a metallic, paper, or plastic case that is precisely made to fit within the firing chamber of a firearm.
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Would it be possible to see a picture of such loops? I have to plead ignorance and admit that I have no idea what this is about.
Trailrider #896 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 +1 Sounds like you have to sew a wedge-shaped piece behind the cartridge loops. Gonna add to the cost of such things. I suppose, if a customer wants it...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said: +1 Sounds like you have to sew a wedge-shaped piece behind the cartridge loops. Gonna add to the cost of such things. I suppose, if a customer wants it... LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body e.g. /// \\\ \I/
Tyrel Cody Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said: @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well? Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind? The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers.
Tyrel Cody Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind? The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers. I was thinking if the loops were angled like in the image above the shells would set more vertical and be a touch easier to grab. By vertical in this case I mean upright towards the shoulder not out from the body. If I find time I'll draw it up.
Tyrel Cody Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Something like this is what I was thinking. Normal: Angled:
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 40 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: I was thinking if the loops were angled like in the image above the shells would set more vertical and be a touch easier to grab. By vertical in this case I mean upright towards the shoulder not out from the body. If I find time I'll draw it up. I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them.
Tyrel Cody Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them. Thank you
Sedalia Dave Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Tyrel Cody If you are thinking of angling them on a Bandolier, I would go the other way and make them sit more horizontal than vertical.
Tyrel Cody Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: Tyrel Cody If you are thinking of angling them on a Bandolier, I would go the other way and make them sit more horizontal than vertical. Why is that?
Trailrider #896 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body e.g. /// \\\ \I/ Ah, thanks for the clarification. Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 14, 2018 Author Posted January 14, 2018 29 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said: Ah, thanks for the clarification. Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it? You're welcome! You'd have to ask the shooters who've been using them for the past few years...I've been pulling ammo from vertical loops for 25+ years and have no reason to change at this point.
Deadeye George Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 18 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said: Ah, thanks for the clarification. Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it? Purely a rule for the gamers! spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock! I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course!
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 15, 2018 Author Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Deadeye George said: Purely a rule for the gamers! spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock! I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course! How could saving ".00000135 of a second" possibly be of a competitive advantage to anyone, "gamer" or not? BTW - "Wrist bandoliers" are specifically listed as NOT ALLOWED. REF: SHB p.3
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Okay. Thanks for the pics. Makes sense to me know. To be honest, no real opinion on the matter here.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 15, 2018 Author Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 5:29 PM, Tyrel Cody said: @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well? On 1/13/2018 at 5:34 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind? The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers. 23 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them. CONFIRMED by a consensus of the members of the ROC: The clarification allowing laterally-angled ammo loops on BELTS & SLIDES does NOT apply to BANDOLIERS. Thank you for asking, though!
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 23 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said: @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Something like this is what I was thinking. Normal: Angled: Dang you can sew fast, I gotta couple of things I need done yesterday
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Deadeye George said: Purely a rule for the gamers! spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock! I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. Howdy Deadeye, And that's gonna effect mine and yours fun factor how?? FWIW gamer is not a dirty word, they are really there just to have fun Their fun factor may be stages clean in the teens, where mine is breaking 40 seconds clean in a cloud of real BP BTW, the speed demons were there when we had to carry around a 70lb wet dummy.....boy was that fun Good Luck
Ramblin Gambler Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 10:22 PM, Trailrider #896 said: Ah, thanks for the clarification. Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it? On the bottom picture, it makes the easier to draw. Think about concealed carry holsters. Most of them don't hang straight down, they cant forward a bit. Since you're drawing from your waist / hip area you start to lose the flexibility to pull straight up with authority. Well, the same holds true with the bullets even if to a lesser degree because they are so short. Depending on where they're being worn and how flexible the shooter is it could make a difference. The top picture might have the same thing in mind, but the middle one looks like it's all about spreading the cartridges out.
Chili Ron Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Howdy. HEY Spread out. The three stooges comes to mind. With a good solid slap fer all. Best CR
Yul Lose Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 2:59 PM, Deadeye George said: Purely a rule for the gamers! spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock! I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course! I’m definitely not a gamer but I can understand shooters wanting to make a reload easier to do. Im going to do it myself, god knows I can use the .00000135 advantage.
Deadeye George Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: I’m definitely not a gamer but I can understand shooters wanting to make a reload easier to do. Im going to do it myself, god knows I can use the .00000135 advantage. FINALLY........... we have an honest man who can appreciate the time savings! Come to think of it I already switched to solid brass shotgun shells and figure the quicker shucking has saved me .00325 of a second per stage for a total of .195 or almost 2/10ths of a second per match so maybe all this stuff does add up! Does THAT make me a gamer?
Blast Masterson Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 You defiantly have Gamer tendencies there Deadeye!
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 10:29 PM, Deadeye George said: FINALLY........... we have an honest man who can appreciate the time savings! Come to think of it I already switched to solid brass shotgun shells and figure the quicker shucking has saved me .00325 of a second per stage for a total of .195 or almost 2/10ths of a second per match so maybe all this stuff does add up! Does THAT make me a gamer? Absolutely it does. Send me a SASE and I'll send your official card.
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 I have one of those too. Who'da thunk it?
Two Spurs Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 4:59 PM, Deadeye George said: Purely a rule for the gamers! spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock! I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course! That's telling them gamers! Those l people who drive vehicles with a/c, and use remotes to change the channels on their TV's! Don't ever change and get those Deadeye! TS (who loves this game and gets the biggest joy out of watching someone over 70 run a stage...gaming life! )
Ramblin Gambler Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/18/2018 at 6:34 AM, Two Spurs said: and use remotes to change the channels on their TV's! Aint never heard a child referred to as a 'remote'.
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 Howdy. Speed may not always be the reason. Some folk have hand issues and it may be less painful to reach and pull a round out not up.
Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 I had asked, but now understand the advantage of such, especially if they were made out of space age polimer...maybe spring assisted??? I'm still using grandpappy's old leather shotgun belt and 130 year old holsters. I shoulda picked toocheep Doc instead of Dirty Doc and Brothel Doc....
evil dogooder Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:23 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: How could saving ".00000135 of a second" possibly be of a competitive advantage to anyone, "gamer" or not? BTW - "Wrist bandoliers" are specifically listed as NOT ALLOWED. REF: SHB p.3 with all due respect palewolf As to the btw part how many things have been specifically not allowed that now are? He has a very valid point
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 29, 2018 Author Posted January 29, 2018 5 hours ago, evil dogooder said: with all due respect palewolf As to the btw part how many things have been specifically not allowed that now are? He has a very valid point How far back do you want to go?
Mack Hacker, #60477 Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 As for examples of legal configurations, this one, which has been very common for years, would seem to be approved(IMHO).
Smoky Pistols Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Mack Hacker, #60477 said: As for examples of legal configurations, this one, which has been very common for years, would seem to be approved(IMHO). That appears to meet the definition-but what do I know? LOL
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