final roc ruling ANGLED CARTRIDGE LOOPS

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

After considerable discussion, the combined WB/ROC has come to a final decision regarding the question as to the legality of "angled cartridge loops" on gun/ammo belts and slides:

Laterally-angled cartridge loops on belts and ammo slides are LEGAL and ALLOWED for SASS competition use.

This ruling rescinds all previous rulings and opinions.

 

LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body

e.g. /// \\\ \I/

EDIT: The clarification allowing laterally-angled ammo loops on BELTS & SLIDES does NOT apply to BANDOLIERS.

 

Cartridge

Firearms

A cartridge (also called a round or a shell) is a type of ammunition packaging a bullet or shot, a propellant substance (usually either smokeless powder or black powder) and a primer within a metallic, paper, or plastic case that is precisely made to fit within the firing chamber of a firearm.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add additional comments

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 572]

Would it be possible to see a picture of such loops?   I have to plead ignorance and admit that I have no idea what this is about.

[Trailrider #896 886]

+1  Sounds like you have to sew a wedge-shaped piece behind the cartridge loops. Gonna add to the cost of such things. I suppose, if a customer wants it...

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

21 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

+1  Sounds like you have to sew a wedge-shaped piece behind the cartridge loops. Gonna add to the cost of such things. I suppose, if a customer wants it...

 

LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body

e.g. /// \\\ \I/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add photos

[Tyrel Cody 2,728]

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well? 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well? 

 

Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind?
The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers.

[Tyrel Cody 2,728]

8 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind?
The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers.

I was thinking if the loops were angled like in the image above the shells would set more vertical and be a touch easier to grab. By vertical in this case I mean upright towards the shoulder not out from the body. If I find time I'll draw it up.

[Tyrel Cody 2,728]

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Something like this is what I was thinking.

 

Normal: Angled: 

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

40 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I was thinking if the loops were angled like in the image above the shells would set more vertical and be a touch easier to grab. By vertical in this case I mean upright towards the shoulder not out from the body. If I find time I'll draw it up.

 

I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

[Tyrel Cody 2,728]

18 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them.

 

 

Thank you 

[Sedalia Dave 4,674]

Tyrel Cody

 

If you are thinking of angling them on a Bandolier, I would go the other way and make them sit more horizontal than vertical.

[Tyrel Cody 2,728]

4 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Tyrel Cody

 

If you are thinking of angling them on a Bandolier, I would go the other way and make them sit more horizontal than vertical.

 

Why is that?

[Trailrider #896 886]

2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

LATERALLY-ANGLED ... i.e. tilted to the SIDE, not OUT from the body

e.g. /// \\\ \I/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, thanks for the clarification.  Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

29 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Ah, thanks for the clarification.  Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it?

 

You're welcome!

You'd have to ask the shooters who've been using them for the past few years...I've been pulling ammo from vertical loops for 25+ years and have no reason to change at this point.

[Deadeye George 107]

18 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Ah, thanks for the clarification.  Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it?

 

Purely a rule for the gamers!  spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock!  I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. 

 

Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course!

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

1 hour ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Purely a rule for the gamers!  spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock!  I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. 

 

Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course!

 

How could saving ".00000135 of a second" possibly be of a competitive advantage to anyone, "gamer" or not?

 

BTW - "Wrist bandoliers" are specifically listed as NOT ALLOWED.
REF: SHB p.3

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 572]

Okay.   Thanks for the pics.   Makes sense to me know.

 

To be honest, no real opinion on the matter here.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:29 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L laterally angled ok for bandoliers as well? 

 

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:34 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Loops on a bandolier are already angled laterally "as worn" (i.e. not oriented vertically)...what do you have in mind?
The clarification applies to belts and slides...no reference to bandoliers.

 

23 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

I'm thinking that the ROC would "draw the line" at that idea, since such a bandolier is not already in use (as in the case of angled loops on belts and slides)...but I'll pose the question to them.

 

CONFIRMED by a consensus of the members of the ROC:

The clarification allowing laterally-angled ammo loops on BELTS & SLIDES does NOT apply to BANDOLIERS.

 

Thank you for asking, though!

[Jefro, SASS#69420 339]

23 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Something like this is what I was thinking.

 

Normal: Angled: 

 

 

Dang you can sew fast, I gotta couple of things I need done yesterday

[Jefro, SASS#69420 339]

3 hours ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Purely a rule for the gamers!  spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock!  I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today.

Howdy Deadeye, And that's gonna effect mine and yours fun factor how?? FWIW gamer is not a dirty word, they are really there just to have fun Their fun factor may be stages clean in the teens, where mine is breaking 40 seconds clean in a cloud of real BP BTW, the speed demons were there when we had to carry around a 70lb wet dummy.....boy was that fun  Good Luck

[Ramblin Gambler 652]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:22 PM, Trailrider #896 said:

Ah, thanks for the clarification.  Aside from the fact that the pistol rounds are spread further apart, which would make them a bit easier to grasp, what is the advantage, or is that it?

 

On the bottom picture, it makes the easier to draw.  Think about concealed carry holsters.  Most of them don't hang straight down, they cant forward a bit.  Since you're drawing from your waist / hip area you start to lose the flexibility to pull straight up with authority.  Well, the same holds true with the bullets even if to a lesser degree because they are so short.  Depending on where they're being worn and how flexible the shooter is it could make a difference. 

 

The top picture might have the same thing in mind, but the middle one looks like it's all about spreading the cartridges out. 

[Chili Ron 507]

Howdy.

HEY  Spread out.

The three stooges comes to mind.

With a good solid slap fer all.

Best

CR

 

[Yul Lose 3,761]

On 1/14/2018 at 2:59 PM, Deadeye George said:

 

Purely a rule for the gamers!  spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock!  I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. 

 

Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course!

I’m definitely not a gamer but I can understand shooters wanting to make a reload easier to do. Im going to do it myself, god knows I can use the .00000135 advantage.

[Deadeye George 107]

24 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I’m definitely not a gamer but I can understand shooters wanting to make a reload easier to do. Im going to do it myself, god knows I can use the .00000135 advantage.

 

FINALLY........... we have an honest man who can appreciate the time savings!  

Come to think of it I already switched to solid brass shotgun shells and figure the quicker shucking has saved me .00325 of a second per stage for a total of .195 or almost 2/10ths of a second per match so maybe all this stuff does add up!  Does THAT make me a gamer?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Deadeye George

[Blast Masterson 114]

You defiantly have Gamer tendencies there Deadeye! 

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 289]

On 1/15/2018 at 10:29 PM, Deadeye George said:

 

FINALLY........... we have an honest man who can appreciate the time savings!  

Come to think of it I already switched to solid brass shotgun shells and figure the quicker shucking has saved me .00325 of a second per stage for a total of .195 or almost 2/10ths of a second per match so maybe all this stuff does add up!  Does THAT make me a gamer?

Absolutely it does. Send me a SASE and I'll send your official card.

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 3,456]

I have one of those too. Who'da thunk it?

 

[Two Spurs 47]

On 1/14/2018 at 4:59 PM, Deadeye George said:

 

Purely a rule for the gamers!  spreading the cartridges farther apart and at an angle would likely save the shooter .00000135 of a second reloading on the clock!  I can finally see how this game has evolved from the "good ole days" to the pure speed matches of today. 

 

Good grief, what next........ wrist watches with leather bands that have cartridge loops sewn in, at an angle of course!

 

That's telling them gamers! Those l people who drive vehicles with a/c,  and use remotes to change the channels on their TV's!  Don't ever change and get those Deadeye! 

 

TS (who loves this game and gets the biggest joy out of watching someone over 70 run a stage...gaming life! )

Edited January 18, 2018 by Two Spurs
spelling

[Ramblin Gambler 652]

On 1/18/2018 at 6:34 AM, Two Spurs said:

and use remotes to change the channels on their TV's!

 

Aint never heard a child referred to as a 'remote'. 

 

[VICIOUS, SASS#8014 29]

Howdy. Speed may not always be the reason. Some folk have hand issues and it may be less painful to reach and pull a round out not up. 

[Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 18]

I had asked, but now understand the advantage of such, especially if they were made out of space age polimer...maybe spring assisted???  I'm still using grandpappy's old leather shotgun belt and 130 year old holsters. I shoulda picked toocheep Doc instead of Dirty Doc and Brothel Doc....

[evil dogooder 563]

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:23 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

How could saving ".00000135 of a second" possibly be of a competitive advantage to anyone, "gamer" or not?

 

BTW - "Wrist bandoliers" are specifically listed as NOT ALLOWED.
REF: SHB p.3

 with all due respect  palewolf As to the btw part how many things have been specifically not allowed that now are?  He has a very valid point 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 2,945]

5 hours ago, evil dogooder said:

 with all due respect  palewolf As to the btw part how many things have been specifically not allowed that now are?  He has a very valid point 

 

How far back do you want to go?

 

 

[Mack Hacker, #60477 27]

As for examples of legal configurations, this one, which has been very common for years, would seem to be approved(IMHO).

[Smoky Pistols 450]

5 hours ago, Mack Hacker, #60477 said:

As for examples of legal configurations, this one, which has been very common for years, would seem to be approved(IMHO).

That appears to meet the definition-but what do I know?  LOL