Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I set up something new (at least to us) at our last monthly cowboy match. There was a Wild Bunch cat. and it was shot along with the regular posse's. W/B shooters shot the same sequence as regular cowboy, but did the hand gun sequence twice. It appears it went well, no real delays picking the extra brass as the other W/B shooters picked for each other besides regular duties. W/B got to start with the shotgun stuffed with the # of shells that matched the S/G targets on that stage. We'll try it again next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Clubs down here do this and call it either 'Pike' or 'Professional' category. Did you allow 7rnds in the mag? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Clubs down here do this and call it either 'Pike' or 'Professional' category. Did you allow 7rnds in the mag? OLG Not yet, I think that happens sometime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 The Sun River Rangers does that on the 1st Saturday of the month. The WB uses 4 mags with 5 rnds each (soon to be 7 rnds according to the rumor mill) and SG has the 6 rounds loaded, but with an empty chamber on a 97 or Model 12 . Cowboy shooters shoot the same sequence with the exception it being the 10-10- 6 (or 4) but no pre- loaded SG even if you're using a 97. A SG miss still can be made up for Cowboy shooters but not for WB. Sometimes the SG count is 4 for the Cowboys but usually it's 6 like the WB shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 We have had some shoot Pike on the same stage a but alter the scenario so the handgun is shot last so the shooter can show the TO that the gun is clear at end of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 This comes up here on the Wire from time to time. Seen it done many times, although not as often as it used to be, shot it more than a few, and everyone had a lot of fun. Good luck with keeping it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 And good luck shooting Cowboy targets and stages written for 5-round revolver capacities when you start using 7-round 1911 magazines. (Hint - it's VERY hard to lay out stages that run smoothly with both type of pistol sequences in one stage). Five rounds in mags - WB in a Cowboy stage goes very smoothly. Not so much with 7. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 We tried it up in this neck of the woods for a while.. It went good fer a couple matches.. But... They stopped doing it.. If'n I was you I'd keep an eye on yer cowboy shooters attendance.. They might tapered off quite a bit.. And ya wonder why.. They did up here.. I was one that " absolutely stopped" shooting cowboy matches at the local clubs when they put Wild Bunch in the same posse.. I was tired of chasing their brass out of auto's.. I never knew until I arrived if I was going to be on a WB posse.. I won't shirk the duties that need ta be done on a posse.. so I continued to shag brass.. So I quit going to those clubs.. Apparently other cowboy shooters felt the same way.. Rance Thinkin' ya need ta watch yer cowboy shooters attendance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Rance, We had the same problem here for a while. The cowboy shooters tapered off some. Up here in Montana we can and sometimes have had it snow in June and sometimes July. Shoots are a hit and miss proposition...no pun intended. A lot of our club shoots when we can for that reason regardless of the venue. But, the Sunday (day after) after the WB/Cowboy shoot is the Cowboy only shoot. I tried WB a couple of times but just can't get into it. I didn't start shooting Cowboy to shoot 1911's, and buy a whole new set up in holsters and mag pouches etc. A lot of people enjoy both venue's and more power to them, but I wait until the next day to go out. And shagging ACP brass along with the rifle brass is a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just let them find the brass after the brass. I can believe a 45 Auto will throw brass further than a rifle, I can't see it significantly worse than a 73 that often throws some in front of the stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I ask that you indicate on your shoot invitations that WB will be shot with Cowboy. That way I know what clubs to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I've attended CAS and W3G annuals where WB was allowed. Another lady and I were the primary brass pickers. The temps were low 100s. We really did not appreciate picking 1911 brass. (They shot the 1911s instead of rifles.) It might have been okay with lower temp or more brass pickers. We have a dedicated WB club at my home venue. I only shoot WB at annuals now as I am a cripple for days after being one of very few brass pickers at the monthly matches. IMNSHO, all shooters should have brass picking equipment and help. If everyone picked for two stages, it would be easier on those of us with back/hand/elbow issues. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It is asking a lot of T.O.s to be knowledgeable of both the cowboy guns and rules in addition to the Wild Bunch guns and rules. Yes, some can do it, but the pickins can get pretty slim sometimes. So if it works for you and ya'll have fun,m well, have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyDrew42 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 How are these roller thingies at shagging brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: It is asking a lot of T.O.s to be knowledgeable of both the cowboy guns and rules in addition to the Wild Bunch guns and rules. Yes, some can do it, but the pickins can get pretty slim sometimes. So if it works for you and ya'll have fun,m well, have fun! The few times I have attended a match mixed like this, the TO's would trade off for WB shooters. I don't see it very often these days because there are dedicated WB monthly matches at several local clubs. Sometimes we do a match were anything goes. So you can shoot single action pistols or 1911, rifle or 1911, stoked shotguns if you want. And then adjust the bonus/penalties to match. For example, you get a 10 second bonus for shooting rifle targets with pistols (so that's also when the Josey Wales folks come out to play), a 10 second penalty for a stoked shotgun, and a few others I can't remember. It's a lot of fun, but not much more work because the target count stays the same. I like to shoot it with my single actions, 1911 for my rifle, and a stoked 87 just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Not good, Drew. They don't distinguish between gravel and brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Make the 1911 guys use steel cases so they can be picked up with a magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Mo Dern Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Howdy! I have seen WB shot at one match I attended. The shooters used one single action revolver, one 1911 pistol loaded with 5 rounds, a lever action rifle, and an 1897 pump shotgun. I noticed one shooter came up to the firing line with 4 rounds loaded in the shotgun. They shot the stage just like everyone else but my question is: Are they scored exactly like the rest of the shooters on the posse? It would seem they would be at an advantage having 4 rounds already loaded in the shotgun. After this match we put our stuff away, got in line for lunch and ate, and gave out award ribbons and I never paid any attention as to how the match was scored. I'm assuming everyone was scored just like a regular cowboy match. How do you guys score this? Do you pre-load the shotgun? Thanks in advance for any answers you might have. Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I, along with quite a few others, stopped shooting at a club we had shot at for years when they began this. You end up with TO's that don't shoot Wild Bunch and do not know any rules, you get shooters that are just shooting Cowboy with a 1911. If it seems to work for you that's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 4:38 PM, Noz said: I ask that you indicate on your shoot invitations that WB will be shot with Cowboy. That way I know what clubs to avoid. It's noted on the web site....the dates of each months shoots (April-October) the WB/Cowboy shoot the 1st Saturday of the month, and a Cowboy only shoot on the Sunday (day) after the WB/Cowboy shoot. The Rangers also shoot the 4th Sunday of the month....Cowboy only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 At the place around here that used to do it, I think they still do, it was pretty simple. Everyone shot the exact same target sequence. Wild Bunch shooters had the option of using a 1911, Luger, Broomhandle, M1917, Webley or any other pistol that existed prior to the end of World War 1. They could use 2 pistols or reload as they saw fit. Rifle was a main match rifle, or a rifle shooting a "rifle caliber" cartridge. You could either reload it to get all 10 shots, or use 2 rifles. Shotgun was any WW1 or earlier repeating shotgun in safe working order that was loaded like a rifle. You could even use a double if you wanted, but you could not load it in advance. Can't remember if anyone ever did. You saw a LOT of interesting old guns, everyone had a loads of fun, there was never any conflict between the people using all Cowboy guns and those shooting in the WB category. Scoring was pretty simple. "Here are the results for Cowboy shooters, and here are the results for the WB shooters." Under these rules, it actually made sense for the 1911 (or other automatics) to be limited to 5 rounds in the magazine. Nor was their any confusion for the RO's, unloading tables or anything else like that. It just worked. It was so popular that they went from doing it once a year to at every match. Take it with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1st, I've turned my flame suit on. 2nd, DON'T call shooting your cowboy match with a 1911 "Wild Bunch". A SASS Wild Bunch match is meant to challenge both a shooter's accuracy and speed, not simply "how fast can I manipulate the guns?" Cowboy target sizes and arrays are "big, close and simple"... whereas Wild Bunch targets should be pushed back from the usual 3-7 yards, rifle targets pushed out to beyond 25 yards. Wild Bunch should make use of smaller targets, at longer distances, as your competitors are very likely to encounter such targets and distances at actual Wild Bunch matches. Possibly targets as small as 4-6" round falling plate racks, a 6-8" dueling tree, among others. Yes, these will be closer in, but not so close that an out-stretched arm covers half the distance to the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Seen it done a lot and tried it myself....... What you end up with is a match that serves neither crowd well and is long & confusing. WB if done as it is laid out in the SASS guide shouldn't be Cowboy with a 45 ACP....it's a whole different game built around the pistol. Trying to configure a match that is WB correct and still a good CAS match isn't possible IMO. You can hit middle ground and make everyone equally unhappy or just divide them and do it correctly........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Shot in Montana with Charlie Whiskers. I prefer not to shoot along with the 1911 bunch it takes some of the "Cowboy" out of Cowboy Action Shooting for me ... I had fun, though as I tried it, met a great bunch of folks. Shot at Black Horse , great folks had fun even with the "Rain Day" Will plan on making the Cowboy only matches.... In Montana ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said: Shot in Montana with Charlie Whiskers. I prefer not to shoot along with the 1911 bunch it takes some of the "Cowboy" out of Cowboy Action Shooting for me ... I had fun, though as I tried it, met a great bunch of folks. Shot at Black Horse , great folks had fun even with the "Rain Day" Will plan on making the Cowboy only matches.... In Montana ... Jabez Cowboy Jabez, Our last official shoots of the year is this coming weekend at Black Horse ( both days). Then it's weather permitting until April when both club's season starts again. Sneak across the Border and join us. Drag a few others with you while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 17 hours ago, Noz said: I ask that you indicate on your shoot invitations that WB will be shot with Cowboy. That way I know what clubs to avoid. We will somehow manage without you being there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyDrew42 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I was there and general consensus was that the only hold up was several new shooters needed help and clarification. The group with the wild bunch shooters really didn't take much longer than the group that was all cowboy. Maybe 15 or 20 min, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Well, I've never shot a Wild Bunch match or taken a Wild Bunch RO course, but I have stayed a Holiday Inn Express. I have witnessed a Wild Bunch match at the TN State Match. I don't feel qualified to function as a TO/RO for Wild Bunch shooters. I joined SASS to shoot Cowboy Action Shooting. If you are going to mix the two venues, I would suggest having a separate posse for WB shooters. Hopefully for shooter safety there is a WB trained RO.when allowing WB during a CAS match. Hasta Luego, Keystone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 We allow it at the Wednesday Shoot at Firelands, The WB shooters can stoke 4 in their shotgun also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisco Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Used to do it here but haven't had any requests for it in quite a while. Don't recall any complaints about the extra brass. It was important to make sure the RO understood wild bunch rules, especially since it seems many of the people that want to try it are unfamiliar with a 1911. You can always adapt to the wild bunch shooters by having the additional pistol shots use the rifle targets, and when you start having 7 round mags just adjust the sequences accordingly (5 round Nevada becomes a 7 round if you double tap the center each time; 3-2-2-3 becomes 4-3-3-4; 1-3-1 become 2-3-2; etc.). We also scored it as a completely separate match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I don't see a problem with scoring. People shooting a 1911 and stoked SG can just be designated as WB category. IMNSHO, SASS with a 1911 , should be incorporated in a SASS match. Anything to attract more shooters is good by me. (My only problem is a minor personal issue - brass picking.) In 2005, when Hubby's neuropathy got bad, he wanted to shoot a 1911 instead of pistols and rifles at a monthly match. He tended to AD the SAAs and lever rifle. He even bought a pump rifle to see if he could handle it better. He had problems loading the SG too and thought pre stoking would help him. Hubby did okay (not up to his previous status as match winner as a duelist); but beat the current President, who said he couldn't do it again. That was a club where Hubby was a founder, No. 4. There were 21 founding members, the President wasn't one. Hubby hasn't shot CAS since then. He didn't try WBAS as he has back issues (degenerative disc disease) too and those matches take longer due to more pistol rounds and more SG. So, I am in favor of SASS with a 1911 and more brass pickers to make it less taxing on the SASS without a 1911 shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.