Starline is making 45 caliber Cowboy Special Brass

[John Boy]

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/45-Cowboy-Special/

 

45 Cowboy Special (Large Pistol primer)

Cowboy 45 Special, 45 SPL, C45S
0.892 - 0.896 O.A.L.

The Cowboy .45 Special is a case that is optimized for use with light loads in .45 Colt caliber revolvers for Cowboy Action Shooting. Light loads with excessive airspace are a recipe for case splits and erratic function. By using the Cowboy .45 Special case, with its .45 Colt rim and .45 Auto length, the problem no longer exists. While many claim that .45 Auto load data can be used in this caliber, it is important to realize the limitations of the firearm it is chambered in and only use loads that fall within the pressure range of that firearm. Generally these can be loaded using .45 Colt dies and a modified (shortened) crimp die, or .45 Auto Rim roll crimp die.
 

Status: Available Now

 

[John Boy]

 

I reload 45 Cowboy Special (45CS) using the LEE .455 Webley Mark II three die set P/N-90764 and a .45 colt shellplate/shellholder.

The sizing die is labeled .45 Colt. The other two dies in the set have Webley markings.

I did add a .45 LEE Factory Crimp Die (FCD)  P/N-90865 in the mix as a 4th station crimp only die. I set the Webley seat/crimp die to seat only.
Makes for a sweet 4 die setup. I like seating and crimping separate. You can do three dies but I like 4... it's a round number.. lol.

So it looks like:

Die 1 - .45 Colt sizer / decapper die (part of the Webley three die set)
Die 2 - .455 Webley Powder thru expander die (part of the Webley three die set)
Die 3 - .455 Webley seat /crimp die (set to seat only, part of the Webley three die set)
Die 4 - Optional -.45 Colt/Webley/Casull FCD (with the carbide ring removed, for crimp only. It's just how I am. I like bullets with big hips

Die 4 notes: You could also do die 4 and leave the ring in, or contact LEE and order another Webley seat/crimp die and use it to crimp only. You could grab an old 45 colt seat/crimp die, toss the seat stem, then shorten (cut/grind/machine) the die body so the crimp portion of the die can contact the neck on the shorter 45CS brass... or say the heck with it, ditch the separate seatin' an' crimpin' idea and rock it old school and just use die 3 to seat AND crimp. That method has worked for decades.. lol. Your choice. I'm no judge.

.45 Colt shellplate/shellholder

Shouldn't be too cost prohibitive to grab a 3 die set.
Example:
https://www.titanreloading.com/455-webley-markii-3-die-set-carbide

If going for that 4th die then:
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-pistol-reloading-dies/lee-pistol-factory-crimp-dies/45-colt455-web454-casull-carbide-crimp-die-

 

Compliments from Johnny Cyclone on CAS City

[Rye Miles #13621]

delete

[Eyesa Horg]

I've been OK so far using the 45ACP taper crimp die. But haven't shot more than a couple hundred so far.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

45AR dies for me, then I can crimp properly. I already had them anyway, so no extra cost.

[Yusta B.]

I believe the Lee 45 ACP 3 die set will provide a roll crimp with the std seat/crimp die. If you want a true taper crimp you need to get the LFC die which crimps only. I've been wrong before .......

[Ripsaw]

I use a Square Deal press, and the 45ACP crimp die, when screwed down a tad more, provides a roll crimp.  

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Running em thru a Dillon 650 (for years), I like the stock Dillon 45 Colt resizing die, 45 ACP seater die with the plug reversed and Redding 45AR profile crimp die.  Since I run the C45S in 4 1860 Henrys, an 1866 and 1873, the roll crimp is a necessity.

 

PS:  JB, Starline has always made Cowboy 45 Special cases.  Apparently ACA is bust so Starline can make the cases available under their own banner.  SWEET!!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I use a standard .45 Colt Hornady seat/crimp die. It reaches down far enough to give a nice roll crimp. My standard .45 Colt  RCBS seat/crimp die will not.

[Eyesa Horg]

On 8/25/2017 at 5:33 PM, Ripsaw said:

I use a Square Deal press, and the 45ACP crimp die, when screwed down a tad more, provides a roll crimp.  

 

Ripsaw---Is this a newer crimp die? I also use an SDB and my 45ACP dies are from the late 80's and screwed all the way down make a wicked noticeable taper, but no roll. Been meanin to call Dillon, but haven't yet as I heard that B4.

[Warden Callaway]

I use an RCBS 45ACP / Auto Rim roll crimp die.  

 

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/13396

[Bart Solo]

I don't know why you all are so hung up on this topic.   I use my Lee 45 ACP dies. The only 45 Colt item I use is the shell holder. The Lee factory crimp die does a great job with the crimp. Remember most of us are only using these rounds in our pistols so a minimal crimp is perfectly OK.  I load to the bottom end indicated in my loading manual for the powder and 45 APC bullet I select (usually 180 grains.)  I have only lost one case and I think that one fell off an unloading table.   Of course, I haven't shot 45 that much the last few years, so things might have become more complicated.

[Ripsaw]

3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

 

Ripsaw---Is this a newer crimp die? I also use an SDB and my 45ACP dies are from the late 80's and screwed all the way down make a wicked noticeable taper, but no roll. Been meanin to call Dillon, but haven't yet as I heard that B4.

 

I have a newer set of 45ACP square deal dies--only a couple years old. I read somewhere (perhaps on here on another thread) that the 45ACP die will roll crimp if turned down past the taper crimp level. All I can say is it crimps sufficiently to work with C45S.  When loading 45ACP, I have to raise the die significantly to not over crimp. 

[Null N. Void]

When I load on a SDB, I use a 45 Colt base plate and my 45 ACP dies.  It's a taper crimp.  It works fine for revolvers.  I use 160 grain bullets from Scarlett.  

[Eyesa Horg]

I'll have to get off my butt & call Dillon for a new crimp die. I'm using 160 grain bullets from Lead Ringer and haven't actually had any issue with the taper crimp, but roll just seems like it would be better. Thanks Pards.

[Mossy Pops]

13 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I'll have to get off my butt & call Dillon for a new crimp die. I'm using 160 grain bullets from Lead Ringer and haven't actually had any issue with the taper crimp, but roll just seems like it would be better. Thanks Pards.

If you Dillon guys can use standard dies, RCBS makes a 45ACP die with a roll crimp. I use that on my Hornady Lock n Load and it works great for me.

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

I've been using Trail Boss in my .45 LC loads.  If TB will work in a .45 Cowboy Special, could someone please PM a load and good bullet choice.

[Eyesa Horg]

Got my pile of 'em today, excellent packaging and can't beat the free shipping. Nice to see them back at a reasonable price!

 

Thanks for the "Heads Up"  John Boy

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Same as for WC, .45 auto rim crimp die works a charm for me too.   Not hard to find a die that will do a decent crimp.   And unless loading for a modified rifle, not all that much need for a lot of crimp.

Good luck, GJ

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

.45 auto length is a lot shorter, no?  Makes sense.

I suppose you have to consider the carbon build up at the end of the case so if you load shorter you do it from then on out?

If you went shorter, would the ridge in your pistol chambers from regular .45 interfere with the bullet? 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

8 minutes ago, Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 said:

.45 auto length is a lot shorter, no?  Makes sense.

I suppose you have to consider the carbon build up at the end of the case so if you load shorter you do it from then on out?

If you went shorter, would the ridge in your pistol chambers from regular .45 interfere with the bullet? 

 

https://www.badmanbullets.com/cowboygunparts.com/slix-scraper.html

[Warden Callaway]

I've shot a gazillion C45S through my Cattleman and Marlin 1894 and not had any ring buildup.  But then I clean them after every match.  Also,  I'm mostly shooting BlackMZ loads so maybe they keep any ring from starting the same as there is no lead buildup on cylinder face or in forcing cone.

 

Mary shoots 38 Short Colt in her Cattleman.  I may spend a little more effort on brushing the chambers on her guns. But there is no rings when I get done.

[Null N. Void]

Every time I clean both the 357 Mag. and 45 Colt, I clean out the ring that forms from shooting the short rounds.  It's not a problem.  I have the Slix Scrapper for the .357, and that works fine.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

13 hours ago, Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 said:

I suppose you have to consider the carbon build up at the end of the case so if you load shorter you do it from then on out?

If you went shorter, would the ridge in your pistol chambers from regular .45 interfere with the bullet? 

 

Don't have to "stick" (intended) with C45S cartridges once you start.  I use .45 Colt loads for my rifle, C45S in revolvers.   When I get to what appears to be a stubborn pistol knockdown, I load some rifle cartridges in my Vaqueros.   Never had one try to stick nor leave a ringed case.  So, I guess I don't get much carbon buildup with WST powder in the loads.

 

If I did, a Slix Scraper would take care of it.  It's in my cleaning bag, padded so the teeth stay sharp, but never been used after first time that I found it didn't (need to) scrape any carbon out of my cylinders.  

 

Good luck, GJ

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Prior to finding the "Power of The Dark Side" I shot homemade C45S cases and 45 Squirt.  I shot TightGroup and never had "ring around the chamber."  Never have ring around the chamber with BP or APP either.  If you get ring around the chamber, needs must find a better powder.

[ROKLOK]

Maybe I am missing something, but why not just get some 45 Schofield and reload those? Brass and dies are readily available.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

7 minutes ago, ROKLOK said:

Maybe I am missing something, but why not just get some 45 Schofield and reload those? Brass and dies are readily available.

Compare a .45 ACP case to your Schofields and you will see why.

[ROKLOK]

1 minute ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Compare a .45 ACP case to your Schofields and you will see why.

Got 45 ACP and 45 LC, , but don't have any Schofields to compare. Never had a need for them or the these new 45 cowboy specials.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

56 minutes ago, ROKLOK said:

Got 45 ACP and 45 LC, , but don't have any Schofields to compare. Never had a need for them or the these new 45 cowboy specials.

If you do not know what a Schofield looks like and have no need for it or the .45 Cowboy Special why did you ask?  I see you are a BP shooter.  The anwser is case capacity.  SASS is a speed game.  Full load .45 Colt BP rounds have a pretty decent recoil and are not conducive to speed shooting.  The .45 CS has less case capacity, still meets the SASS smoke requirement with no problem and has less recoil.

 

The .45 Colt was designed for BP.   Many SASS smokeless shooters tend to use very light loads in their .45 Colts.  The small charge takes up very little space and it is easy to double or triple charge a case.  Some powders are not terribly efficient in the large case.  The .45 Auto was designed for smokeless.  It and the .45 CS have a smaller case volume so are more amenable to light charges.  A practical issue for some is, for example, Ruger makes several models with 3 3/4" barrels.  The ejector on these guns is to short to eject the .45 Colt case.  It is a PITA to have to pick the cases out with your fingernails if they stick in the chambers.  The .45 CS being shorter ejects easier.

[Captain Clark]

1 hour ago, ROKLOK said:

Maybe I am missing something, but why not just get some 45 Schofield and reload those? Brass and dies are readily available.

C45S is available as well, and as Larsen points out it is more efficient with subs, smokeless and black powder! Just use your 45 ACP and 45 Colt dies to load C45S, easy !

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:32 AM, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

I've been using Trail Boss in my .45 LC loads.  If TB will work in a .45 Cowboy Special, could someone please PM a load and good bullet choice.

Just use the Trail Boss loading formula on the Hodgdon website to load up C45 S with whatever bullet weight you choose. Its is easy to figure !

I've never had the "ring" issue shooting C45S and 45 Colt in my revolvers, I do CLEAN my pistols fairly often which may be why I haven't encountered the buildup. I see cleaning my guns as part of the game. It seems the "ring" should be no more prevalent in 45's than .357's being fed a steady diet of .38's. Really, why risk a poor match result because of ratty firearms upkeep?

[Four Eyes Henry]

There it is....

12 hours ago, ROKLOK said:

Got 45 ACP and 45 LC, , but don't have any Schofields to compare. Never had a need for them or the these new 45 cowboy specials.

 

[Trooper Ozzy]

I'm a convert after one shoot.  Melted out lube from 200 gr and applied beeswax/Crisco into the now bare lube groove.  1.3 cc Dipper Goex 3F no wads or cards.  Smoke, flames, plenty of clang for my 5.5 OMV Bisleys.

 

BP residue was soft and wiped right off.

 

250 wasn't enough, need to order more from Starline. 

 

I'll save the on the way big lube grooves for my rifle for when I need a quick reload session and don't want to mess with saturated wads and over powder card.  Need more lube for the longer 24" barrel. 

[Griff]

WooHOO!  Now I can go back to my shorty Marlin for WB and not worry about lost brass!  Well... as soon as I finish polishin' it and get back from Turnbull puttin' some lipstick on this pig!

[Brimstone # 2175]

I have to ask.

How would you fellas compare the recoil of these 45 "Cowboy Loads" to a standard 45 LC load?

Is it really worth the headache and money to change up yer loading process?

 

 

Thanks

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

 It was to me,whether you shoot smokeless or black powder.

I already had both die sets 45 colt and 45 ACP so I loaded them with both without problems with either.

 

I told Adirondack Jack all chose years back if he decided to have them made,I would be his first customer and I've never regretted it.              Adios   Sgt. Jake