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WTC - State level side match DQ?


COLORADO JACKSON

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At the Texas State match this past weekend, during the side match day, apparently at the Derringer and Pocket Pistol bay the table got shot at some point during the day, no one said anything or even knew it happened, nothing was said until after the awards banquet at the end of the match when someone ask one of the match officials why there was no awards given for those events and they were told since someone shot the table, they were disqualifying the winners of those two events...men and women. Nothing was ever said to any of the winners about it, just that they were DQ'd after the end of the entire match.

Am I missing something here, I personally saw three of the winners shoot their winning times, without shooting the table, is it right to DQ the winners for something they had nothing to do with?

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I'd be curious as to why a single round through a table resuted in DQ's for all participnts as well.

What was the justification given...if any?

 

??

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Every derringer and PP shooter was DQ'd from that event, or from all side matches? I would think if you cannot ID the guilty party then there is no penalty awarded. Sad, sad indeed that some think they wield such power.

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Interesting part is that one potential PP and Derringer winner was allowed to claim multiple side match awards. A MDQ of one side match is a DQ of all side matches. Added confusion.

 

Some clubs treat each side match as a "stand alone" event, just as they are separate from the main match with no "DQ forward"

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Yes there was but with the all weather carpet, it was not noticeable. Saw what looked like muzzle blast along the surface but no holes. High scores only were recorded. 3 people ran timer.

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Hard to believe a major safety penalty was not awarded immediately. Hard to believe it was not even noticed during the event.

 

But if you can't put the penalty on exactly the right person, then penalizing ANYONE without a TO that is present calling it - is way out of the realm of the rules.

 

Were ALL of the disqualified shooters involved in some sort of "CONSPIRACY to conceal the damage?" I doubt that. But that would be about the only reason to not make any awards for that side match.

 

So, a very poor call, but one that in the end probably has no real significance. So, it would be hard to get too worked up over it. Perhaps more serious supervision of EACH side match next year will be in order!

 

And, as strange as this question sounds, there must really be another side to this one!

 

Good luck, GJ

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Never heard of this. I'm thinking if those that hit the targets with the proper number of shots were penalized, they were not part of the conspiracy. Only those with a miss could have been guilty of such a heinous crime.

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there were three timers.

 

At least one timer person, possible two and even possible that all three timers knew who done it but didn't say.

 

I wonder how and when the match officials finally became aware of it?

 

As Garrison Joe eluded to,, there is more to this story.

 

Back to the OP question, there was no penalty given nor could be verified other than the shot table,,,, a mess of a call.

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I've seen the table get shot before. Should be a side match DQ for the shooter. One would hope they would own up to it. But those matches, especially the derringer, 2 shots in <.5 seconds, it's pretty hard to tell. Maybe not have a shooter start with gun barrel on table? I also have seen more than 1 shooter jump the timer, either on purpose or just in anticipation. I kind of like it where shooter starts the timer. Makes it impossible to jump the timer.

 

I did wonder about not hearing derringer or pocket pistol side match results.

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I am very surprised that the shooter who mis-fired his derringer did not immediately call the penalty him/herself.

 

Maybe we'll hear more. Too bad it turned out this way.

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This was a bad call that wasn't handled properly, in my opinion. The fact that the call was made without even consulting the volunteers(waddies), all three perfectly capable TO's, which we so need at all matches, is incredibly disappointing, and completely disrespectful to those who took time away from their match to help others play on side match day! Good luck recruiting help if you run over your volunteers!

 

Its a delicate balance running a large match, and you have to take care of those willing to help you!

 

Thanks to all the Waddies that have helped on the match in question and any other! We all appreciate your help!

 

Whiskey Kid

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What ever happened to benefit of the shooter??? If you don't know who did how can you penalize everyone ????

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Sounds like something that would happen in elementary school.

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The OP missed a few facts.

I went and looked at the table in question after the match. There were a large number of fresh ( you could tell by the color of the wood splinters ) holes in the table. I did not count them but I was told there were 18 of them. From what I saw that number is close. I questioned the match officials and was told they questioned the TOs, the side match director, and a number of shooters and they all came up with the same answer "I know nothing". IMHO, if eighteen people shot the table or one person shot the table eighteen times and nobody saw nothing. I question all the results of that side match as nobody was paying attention to the target hits or the shooters muzzle direction.

I support the MDs. All they ask was for one person to admit they shot the table or for the TOs to say who shot the table.

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Any chance that non SASS shooters were on the range before or after the side match? I caught a gun club member shooting our steel with 9mm jacketed ammo last week and had to explain why that was a bad idea for him and for the targets. It's rare, but I would rather it be something like that than a SASS member. I can't get my head around 18 shots, no way those were all ADs, sounds more like someone dumping a magazine into the nearest thing that would serve as a target.

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On second thought, I should have listened to myself when I said I wasn't there.

My apologies if my post was in error.

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Good golly, a steel target was being used for side match pocket pistol & derringer? The side matches I've shot had paper plates at arms distance. No way would I be shooting at steel at that distance.

 

Anyway of knowing what the condition of the table was before the events started? Clear before, 18holes after?

 

Bizzare, as more of the store unfolds.

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Hmmm... {shaking head slowly, thinkin'}... wonderin' how the perpetrators would react if that was their prop at their range? When I didn't miss the prop... stepped up & signed the hole... took my DQ! What... someone (or several someones), were worried about their participation award status?

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Some (how many?) shooters were fanning the derringer. I don't know if the no fanning reg applies to side matches, but it is a SASS rule

 

FWIW - "FANNING" is considered "unsafe firearm handling" subject to a SDQ

...no exceptions for side match firearms.

 

REF: RO1 p.26

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Good golly, a steel target was being used for side match pocket pistol & derringer? The side matches I've shot had paper plates at arms distance. No way would I be shooting at steel at that distance.

 

Anyway of knowing what the condition of the table was before the events started? Clear before, 18holes after?

 

Bizzare, as more of the store unfolds.

 

I've run PP and Derringer matches with steel targets for years without the least amount of splashback.

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