Shotgun Target Question

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

When did it become mandatory for shotgun targets to be set in close pairs?

 

Seems like I see that all the time now in videos from all over and at a lot of the matches I attend.

 

 

Stan

[Most Wanted]

Us SxS guys do some reworking the night before the shoot. Dont tell anybody

[Blastmaster]

came popular when the SXS SG became popular..... Or the SXS Shotgun became popular with the close double targets.

 

 

It is a sxs game for the present.

[Assassin]

Stan, when the Border Vigilantes set up a match we have some close together, some a yard apart, some two yards apart, one a yard back, etc. Sometimes one on each side of a group of R/P targets. I don't like giving the advantage to a good SXS shooter over a 97 shooter. I have noticed clubs using just two SG targets on several scenarios at monthly matches. It's my thought that MD's are setting up matches that can be shot quicker and placing SG targets close together along with multiple hits on R/P targets.

 

 

Assassin

[Billy the Avenger]

It's to help use sxs shooters out

 

Billy the Avenger

[Blastmaster]

Us SxS guys do some reworking the night before the shoot. Dont tell anybody

And that happens too!! Really!!

[Blastmaster]

Stan, when the Border Vigilantes set up a match we have some close together, some a yard apart, some two yards apart, one a yard back, etc. Sometimes one on each side of a group of R/P targets. I don't like giving the advantage to a good SXS shooter over a 97 shooter. I have noticed clubs using just two SG targets on several scenarios at monthly matches. It's my thought that MD's are setting up matches that can be shot quicker and placing SG targets close together along with multiple hits on R/P targets.

 

 

Assassin

I don't mind any 'stage' set up to make a particular shooting style (SXS vs 97 or left -vs right or GF vs 2-handed) an advantage,,,, but at the end of the day,,,,,, it equals out. Wishful thinking on my part.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I suppose it became mandatory when we always set up shotgun targets in even numbers!

[Colt McAllister]

About three years before I quit shooting. By the way Stan your too good of shooter to be allowed to complain.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

My 'guess' is that it makes it easier on the set up crew.

 

When 10-15 pards handle hundred pounds of steel for 6 stages, one of the easiest parts would be just to drop the SG targets in pairs, close together.

 

Lots of attention is given to the placements and positions of pistol and rifle targets. The SG targets are usually just an afterthought to place where room allows.

 

 

..........Widder

[Blastmaster]

when the MD & stage writers started shooting SXS

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

You bring it and i will shoot it.

[Yul Lose]

I shoot at a monthly match and nearly every match the SG targets on one of the stages is set so that you can knock two targets down with one shot even with my 16 gauge 97's. I still shoot the extra shot to make up for the 4 plus requirement on the stage. Some of the newer shooters are amazed that a 16 gauge will do that. I tell them that their 12 will do it too if you crouch just right and aim just right. I wonder if it's really and advantage for a SxS over a 97 shooter to have the targets closer.

[Boon Doggle]

'Careful Cowboys. this thread could turn into targets being too close.

[Oklahoma Dee]

Depends on how wide the stage is and how many positions your shooters is going to shoot at.

 

I setup a stand and deliver stage, from one table, last weekend with 2 Shotgun knockdowns on each side of 4 rifle and 4 pistols targets. Shooters choice on guns to shoot, but rifle cannot be last.

 

For the shotgun, shooter had to engage the inside two shotgun knockdowns and then the two outside shotgun targets.

Made for a wide swing of the shooter inbetween shots on the knockdowns. results were mixed. On the first pass, some shooters knocked down the first one and missed the second one.

Did not miss the second time swinging over to it. Some had no problems.

 

Added a different fresh approach to the majority stage runs.

 

At Oakwood Outlaws, one stage is setup up with 4 shotgun knockdowns, and 2 of the 4 are much taller than the other two.. So, you have one tall, one short, one tall, one short.

Gotta keep your bead on em.

 

It is my opinion that it is not mandatory to have them in close pairs. All for the sake of a fast stage run.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Nothing mandatory about it. Just that a lot of match directors seem to think that is the way the paying customers want to have then set so that the match is the most fun possible!

 

It's the same target setup for whatever type of shotgun comes to the line.

 

Let's go shoot!

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

a mix is always good,,,,

[Boggus Deal #64218]

when the MD & stage writers started shooting SXS

As a SxS shooter and stage writer, I'll put a SG target on each outside and two in the middle and all of them may be at different distances. But you won't here me whine when there is an odd number of SG targets.

[Grizzly Dave]

When did it become mandatory for shotgun targets to be set in close pairs?

 

Seems like I see that all the time now in videos from all over and at a lot of the matches I attend.

 

 

Stan

 

 

It ain't. But you knew that.

 

Like most things, spacing of shotgun targets has changed to meet what people want. People seem to want speed.

 

I like variety, stages with only 2 SG targets is fine, but so is 6. Close together for the most part, sure, but not always, I've even seen sets with 3 SG targets on each side of the bay with movement in between.

 

Same could be said about pistol or rifle targets. Most often you'll see them in a row at the same height and distance. But variety is good, mix up the heights and distances and even now and them throw in a couple targets spaced 15 feet apart to alternate between.

 

Any of the above isn't really going to slow down the really fast folks, but for the middle of the pack majority it is more likely to IMO. Can't keep everyone happy.

[Bart Solo]

I am not so sure the close set shotgun targets give an advantage to SxS shooters. The only time a SxS shooter has an advantage is when you double tap the same target, then the rule is the spotter has to hear two shots. On the other hand I shot a stage Sunday with two shotgun targets set on opposite ends of the pistol array, 8-10 yards apart two reps which required a shotgun reload. I used the time moving from one end to another pulling, and shucking shells. I would have loaded the gun during the swing, but I didn't have enough time. I don't think the 97 shooters had any advantage.

[Buckshot Frank]

My 'guess' is that it makes it easier on the set up crew.

 

When 10-15 pards handle hundred pounds of steel for 6 stages, one of the easiest parts would be just to drop the SG targets in pairs, close together.

 

Lots of attention is given to the placements and positions of pistol and rifle targets. The SG targets are usually just an afterthought to place where room allows.

 

 

..........Widder

10-15 pards as a set-up crew? I usually set up the matches myself...

 

"Irregular" is my favorite target positioning style (for pistol, rifle, and shotgun). As a matter of convenience, it is much easier to set up when you don't have to worry about having them perfectly lined up and spaced out.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I am not so sure the close set shotgun targets give an advantage to SxS shooters. The only time a SxS shooter has an advantage is when you double tap the same target, then the rule is the spotter has to hear two shots. ...

 

...

 

That is NOT a rule that applies to SG targets.

it only pertains to Gunfighters shooting "SIMO" contrary to category regulations.

[Silver Shadow]

 

That is NOT a rule that applies to SG targets.

it only pertains to Gunfighters shooting "SIMO" contrary to category regulations.

 

Thanks for pointing that out Pale Wolf. Those imaginary "SASS" rules have showed up often at one of the clubs I shoot at. They occasionally write stages that involve double tap shotgun gun gongs and site that "SASS must hear two"" rule.

 

OK... deep breath... now back to the program in progress.

SS

[Bart Solo]

 

That is NOT a rule that applies to SG targets.

it only pertains to Gunfighters shooting "SIMO" contrary to category regulations.

Thanks PaleWolf, I will keep that in mind the next time a TO says I can't pull both triggers nearly simultaneously on a shotgun double tap. Of course, if hearing two is in the stage instructions, I think the stage instructions control.

[Goliath, SASS #41359]

Just thinking of the gunfighters - trying to put all the targets in pairs.

Guess i need to remember that SG targets don't need to be that way.

(Y'all should have seen Deadly Sharpshooter shooting Gunfighter last weekend in Valdosta - the way he shot targets in pairs! -- a lot of fun to watch, but a bugger to spot)

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Thanks PaleWolf, I will keep that in mind the next time a TO says I can't pull both triggers nearly simultaneously on a shotgun double tap. Of course,

if hearing two is in the stage instructions, I think the stage instructions control.

I've never heard of that particular "stage instruction".

 

This is the actual "rule" regarding SG DTs (no prohibition, just a recommendation to NOT write the stage to allow doing so):

 

16. Shotguns are always “staged” open with magazine and chambers empty, never with the muzzle on the ground, and are loaded on the clock unless the stage description states otherwise. Shotguns may be opened and rounds removed or replaced without penalty. It is permissible for mule-eared shotguns to be “cocked” at the beginning of a scenario, whether staged or in the shooter’s hands. Scoring is very difficult when both barrels of a double barreled shotgun are fired simultaneously, so stages should not be designed incorporating a shotgun double tap

 

RO1 p.17

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

AS a sxs shooter I don't even mind 3 then move and 3 more,,,, just open it before you move... I don't even shuck it,,, get there, close and continue... just give me a place to shoot my toys!!!

[Blastmaster]

i know a club that likes there SG targets so close that you can get the pair with one shot,,,, same with the second pair. Yes,, they write the stage as 4 +/- SG shells. So, that basically is a double tap for SXS. And yes, you hear two shots cause there is a few micro second delay when the shooter presses/release/presses the single trigger...The double trigger folks just haven't got the pull both at the same time down. If you know what I mean. The 97 shooters have to aim a bit longer(few more micro seconds) if they wish to go for the two-fer. Pause is time,,,, at the best. If you miss the two-fer, then the 97 has to reload and go for the split. Stratigy play here,,,,but the percentage is favored to the the SXS.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Double taps on SG targets is in my opinion very poor stage writing. Should not be done. Gives the SXS double trigger shooters a distinct advantage over shotguns with single triggers or only one barrel. Single tapping is the only fair way to address SG targets.

 

RBK

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I've been known to set up two rows of 4 shotgun targets. They are lined up so you can knock down two at a time. It always brings a bunch of whoops when someone knocks down two targets with one shot and then shucks the empty and live round. Stage instructions say to use any many shots as necessary to knock down the 8 shotgun targets in any order.

[Stump Water]

When did it become mandatory for shotgun targets to be set in close pairs?

 

 

 

About the same time folks started squealing if you wrote stages with a bit of imagination. You know, stages that weren't "normal", and required people to use their head for something besides a hat rack.

 

You know the drill - give 'em the same old sweeps month-in and month-out and "level the playing field" or they'll "vote with their feet".

 

Everything has to be "fair".

 

The "fair" is where you get cotton candy.

 

Reckon why I quit shooting.

[Yul Lose]

I've been known to set up two rows of 4 shotgun targets. They are lined up so you can knock down two at a time. It always brings a bunch of whoops when someone knocks down two targets with one shot and then shucks the empty and live round. Stage instructions say to use any many shots as necessary to knock down the 8 shotgun targets in any order.

That sounds like a hoot. Down at Dulzura they used to have a rack with five Cowboys in a row and if you hit them just right you could knock them all down with 2 shots from a 16 gauge 97. After a few matches they then put in the 5 + shotgun requirement.

[Krazy Kajun]

I've been known to set up two rows of 4 shotgun targets. They are lined up so you can knock down two at a time. It always brings a bunch of whoops when someone knocks down two targets with one shot and then shucks the empty and live round. Stage instructions say to use any many shots as necessary to knock down the 8 shotgun targets in any order.

Yep....can't tell you the number of times I've run the timer on Badland Bob's 8 shotgun target stage set up like that and there are always SxS shooters that will knock down two targets with the first round and then not shoot the second round and shuck a live and a empty fired hull. Weird part about it is that the next shooter will repeat the same feat after everyone has given the first shooter that did that a hard time. I guess its just the habit of seeing two shotgun targets falling and then shucking.

 

Kajun

[Wyatt]

When did it become mandatory for shotgun targets to be set in close pairs?

 

Seems like I see that all the time now in videos from all over and at a lot of the matches I attend.

 

 

Stan

 

About the time it became mandatory that the rifle sequence was the same as the pistol

 

 

 

That's why I started carrying a double and a 97

[Palo Verde, SASS # 56522]

came popular when the SXS SG became popular..... Or the SXS Shotgun became popular with the close double targets.

 

 

It is a sxs game for the present.

 

when the MD & stage writers started shooting SXS

 

 

Yes, it certainly seems so.

It seems there are a number of changes that have been made that would favor the SXS shooter and it does not seem quite proper. Local match had "start with shotgun loaded with two and aimed at the targets." geez Luise that's pretty blatant. Also, the "no shooting on the move" would appear to address the fact that 97s are able to do this and with a SXS it's pretty difficult. Almost all stages are now set up with non - vertical staging of the shotgun, shotgun targets in close pairs as stated, etc, etc,-----

 

I do not recall such a string of changes to favor a particular type of gun. Perhaps, folks wanted to shoot a SXS for some reason, and discovered that it handicapped them in a number of ways and, perhaps, they have been trying to change things to their betterment and remove the SXS handicaps.

 

They next issue to be addressed may be they fact that a SXS is slower than a 97 to make up one miss. Probably a number of creative changes possible to "un-favor " the 97 in this.

 

It's just a game, for Pete's sake, and there ain't no money on it. But it certainly seems that some folks go out of their way to try to get a personal advantage. at least, it certainly seem that way -- and maybe that's normal for the human animal.