Grizzly Dave Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 You say 'to favor a SxS shooter, many say 'to put a SxS shooter on an even playing field with a 97 shooter...' Spinning it to say that some are and or have sought to change the game to gain unfair personal advantage is a BIG stretch IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Stan, when the Border Vigilantes set up a match we have some close together, some a yard apart, some two yards apart, one a yard back, etc. Sometimes one on each side of a group of R/P targets. I don't like giving the advantage to a good SXS shooter over a 97 shooter. I have noticed clubs using just two SG targets on several scenarios at monthly matches. It's my thought that MD's are setting up matches that can be shot quicker and placing SG targets close together along with multiple hits on R/P targets. Assassin I'm a SxS shooter. But like how Assassin sets them up👍🏼 variety is the spice of life😋 Regards, Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 AS a sxs shooter I don't even mind 3 then move and 3 more,,,, just open it before you move... I don't even shuck it,,, get there, close and continue... just give me a place to shoot my toys!!!You have an excellent SxS attitude👍🏼 I like all types of shotgun target placement. But, can't have a positive attitude about odd number of SG targets at any match above a monthly level.A year or so ago, I was looking at a state match that had....shoot one shotgun, next one pistol, next one shotgun, next rifle, next one shotgun, etc. That seemed to be a huge 97 advantage. I have no interest in that kind of stage. Regards, Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Too close together Too far apart Too close in Too Far out Too complicated Too easy Too much of this and not enough of that Too much of that and not enough of this I want shooter choice I just want to be told what to do Ain't never gonna please everyone, but to keep drawing folks in ya gotta please as many as possible. Variety is the spice of life. I think clubs that have a bunch of different folks writing stages have the right idea, Keeps things fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 You say 'to favor a SxS shooter, many say 'to put a SxS shooter on an even playing field with a 97 shooter...' Spinning it to say that some are and or have sought to change the game to gain unfair personal advantage is a BIG stretch IMO. Mr. Dave, I believe this may have been directed at my singular post. No disrespect intended, good Sir. I have shot with you and found you to be a fine fellow, indeed. But, "leveling the playing field" is what is often proposed by the politically far left and by political Socialists with regard to economics. I do not subscribe to their position. In direct application to our hobby: "leveling the playing field" would require that all who shoot 73s (and perhaps a few with Marlins ) should be handicapped in some manner so as to be "on a level field" with those shooting 92s --- or the rules or stages mangled in some manner so as to put 92s on a "level field" with others. The same might be said for short strokes and various pistols and modifications -- and then you approach other slippery slopes (such as natural talent). I would not subscribe to these changes either. Rules changes and stage design do occasionally "favor" a particular style of firearm over another. If the "other" was better suited to a particular task, then so be it. But it does seem that there is a growing tendency to try to modify rules and stage design to favor the SXS. I believe a particular style of firearm is what it is; and, if you choose to use it, you should do so within the extant framework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Spinning off on the variety theme. Had a fantastic match last weekend at a $10 match. We shot six stages in one bay, with one set of P/R/SG targets, one facade with a leaky roof. A high table on the right side, a low table on the left side,,,,with a roof support beam in the middle. It was drizzling rain, that is why. The stages were made up on the fly and most of the posse partisipated. Six completely different sweeps, transitions, gun orders, left to right and right to left, reload, carry gun with you and so much more. No weassle gaming either. Refreshing. PLUS, we had a new SASS shooter but not a new shooter. He caught on quickly. I think he liked it. We liked him being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Rod Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 i am not sure where Stan is going with the post but here is my take. i shoot the 97 and the sxs at roughly the same speed, and more times than not at a big match i grab the sxs cause i have more confidence in my consistency with it. i am not biased towards either gun. i have noticed over the last couple years the matches and stages gravitating towards the sxs. i see lots of 2 here, 2 there and 2 somewhere else. that of course will lean towards a sxs shooter cause yours splits are going to be much faster unless the targets are spread far apart. or if the stage ends with only 2 shotgun. or if targets are very close together. when i shot a double trigger sxs i could get my splits on average around .10 with 2 close targets. thats no fair to even a extremely fast 97 shooter who can have splits in the .60s. i am just saying do the math right there i would have gained a 1.5 seconds on 3 sets of 2 shotgun targets at different shooting positions because of target placement/stage design. i watched a video this morning of 2 fast shooters, one guy in my opinion being in the top tier of the sport shooting a 97 got beat by over 2 seconds by another shooter running a sxs who is very good shooter but not at the same level as the 97 shooter. but the reason he beat him was the stage set up leaned heavily towards a sxs. the 97 shooter ran his pistols and rifle faster plus moved faster both had equally flawless transitions and flawless runs. i understand you need to make stages different and a challenge but i do think its easier to write stages leaning towards a sxs than a 97. the only time i would think a 97 has an advantage would be if there was odd numbers of shotgun targets or like what Lead Ringer described "shoot one shotgun, next one pistol, next one shotgun, next rifle, next one shotgun, etc". thats just my opinion from a guy who shoots both shotguns but maybe this has nothing to do with where Stan is going with his post LOL. so FIRE AWAY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 What about all those stages that favor us 87 shooters? Heck, there's so many that I had no other choice but to buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 My point was to get folks to stop and think a little about WHY things are done the way they are and question if we've tilted to far to one side or the other. In my opinion the game has tilted to far and not because of some nefarious plan to give sxs shooters an advantage. It an effort to keep things fair the SG count was kept even....well it make sense to set them up in pairs because that's easy....well it makes sense to set them closer because it's fun to go bang bang real fast.........years down the road "well this is how it's always been done" is what you get as workers come and go. Anytime I'm involved in setting up a match I strive for BALANCE. if we have 3 stages that are right handed then 3 have to left handed. Have 3 stages with the shotgun targets in close pairs and have 3 that require you to move the sg for all 4 shots. I try to do that for as many aspects as I can. While I enjoy it there's more to shooting than "let's see how fast I can manipulate my guns" ..... We need to remember balance.....Too much of any good thing will always end up being bad. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 People don't mind and rather like it when things are tilted their way. Not so much when your ox is being gored. Best to switch to a SxS rather than hope for balance with 97 if winning is important. On top of that, 97's have got stupid expensive in the last ten years. I shoot a 97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Many times we have 2 Shotgun targets (pairs) set up on each side of the stage.. But.. many time you have to shoot them outside outside and inside inside.. or Inside inside then outside outside.. or shoot in order #1 then #3 then #2 then #4 That changes it up a lot.. swinging to the different targets... If we have a chance at a double tap shotgun target stage.. THE CLUB stage writer usually states must hear 2 distinct shots.. not a SASS rule but the club rule on that stage at that time.. Rance Thinkin' that changes things up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I hate SG order although with big sweeps to the next target it's not near as bad. As for the OP I have shot more odd number SG targets in the last 2 years than the 5 before them. And at least a few times a year a pair of SG that has to be made up in order. It may be a regional thing and the MDs might not even realize the pattern their creating. I've wanted to switch to a 97 the last few years but I just don't have the required dexterity. Truth be told I shoot my SxS pretty poorly also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Ricky Bobby Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I don't really care much either way. I just don't want people to freak when I pull both triggers at the same time on the odd double tap shot gun target. I don't like birds that much but tolerate them. They are heck on clean matches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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