Waco...

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Oh, my!!

 

Nine Dead After Shootout

 

"Police in Waco, Texas say nine people are dead and multiple people are injured after a shooting between rival biker gangs at the Twin Peaks restaurant Sunday.

"Authorities say the nine people killed in the shootout were all members of rival biker gangs that had gathered for a meeting.

"Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said the gangs had arranged to meet to discuss differences when a fistfight began and quickly escalated to include knives and firearms. He says there were 'hundreds' of gang members and a small number of other patrons in the restaurant..."

Ya know... I do believe if I'd been one of the "small number of other patrons" I might've moved on down to Denny's.

 

This surely wasn't Brando in "The Wild One!"

[guitar_slinger]

No way I would have stayed there if a bunch of biker gang members started piling in.

 

GS

[Boon Doggle]

Seems like the place catered to the bikers. Gonna take a long time to sort it all out and try to figure just who did what to who.

If I see a parking lot full of bikes I tend to find another place to have a bite to eat. Unless the bikes are maybe Honda Gold Wings. Maybe even then, some of them old yuppies can be pretty mean.

 

Can't wait until the anti-gun crowd jumps all over this and starts blaming the whole thing on the guns.

 

Damn, there I go, starting to rant.

[Yul Lose]

Drove about 20 miles down the interstate surrounded by Mongols one day, my kids thought it was pretty cool but I was scared .......... If you know what I mean.

[Panhandle Paladin]

From what I can gather, there were about five different rival clubs there. The restaurant should have known that when you get that many rival clubs in one place that there is going to be elevated potential for trouble! What a bunch of morons!

[Blackwater 53393]

The Twin Peaks that I've patronized have been excellent! I doubt they actually had any part in the conflict.

 

I played yesterday to well over a hundred bikers, including a number of one precenters and they were all well behaved, courteous, and even polite to a certain extent. The bike night that my band and I helped to establish fifteen years ago went thirteen years without an incident, and the lone confrontation that did occur was quickly squelched and never repeated. That was three years ago.

 

I've lived and worked among the gangs here around where I live for most of my life and mostly they just want to be left alone. I don't and can't condone the illegal activities that go on in the gangs, but they do a lot of good too. You don't want them to know you ever messed with a child and they're always down for a charity event or to help someone who has fallen on hard times.

 

I've been asked to prospect with three different clubs, but I'm more of a lone wolf and have politely turned each one down. I suspect that because of the band thing, me and the guys get a pass almost anywhere we've been and I have NEVER felt threatened when amongst the one percenters.

 

YMMV

[Backslidin']

The police should have let the gangs go at it until they were all dead. Darwinism at work here.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I can't even imagine where to start on THAT crime scene. The DNA and ballistics people at the Texas crime lab are going to be busy for years.

 

I'm thinking charge the whole bunch of them with RICO and 9 counts of murder. Seize and crush the bikes used in the crime.

 

There is no telling what other crimes they will solve after they get the ballistics run and all those bikers fingerprinted and DNA swabbed.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

Bad scene for sure...

[Filthy Harry, SASS #24924]

The only "colors" that I could read on Fox News was a Vietnam Veteran vest. Are we a gang?

[ORNERY OAF]

The only "colors" that I could read on Fox News was a Vietnam Veteran vest. Are we a gang?

Lol...not Vietnam vets in general, or I would have to give my dad the what for, but there is a 1% biker club called Vietnam vets that has links to the bigger Outlaw motorcycle clubs..this is not the first bit of violence they have been involved in...

[Utah Bob #35998]

There are clubs that are just riding clubs and there are clubs that are violent organized crime gangs.

 

I don't and can't condone the illegal activities that go on in the gangs, but they do a lot of good too.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time and Hitler liked dogs.

[Irish Pat]

What does 1% mean ? Irish Pat

[Utah Bob #35998]

What does 1% mean ? Irish Pat

Supposedly, Approx 1% of the biker population is considered "Outlaws"

[Shooting Bull]

Seize and crush the bikes used in the crime.

 

.

Hey now, let's not get carried away.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Hey now, let's not get carried away.

Seize and sell, please.

[Shooting Bull]

Seize and sell, please.

 

Now THAT'S more like it.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

What does 1% mean ? Irish Pat

Back in the 1950's there was a large bike rally sponsored by the American Motorcycle Association. A number of bikers started causing problems. After it made big news, the president of the AMA held a press conference and claimed that 99% of all bikers were good people and that only 1% caused problems. The outlaw motorcycle gangs adopted the 1% slogan. The vest or cut they wear, is full of information if you know how to read it. It tells their rank, accomplishments (dirty deeds) and club/turf. As a general rule, only outlaw motorcycle gangs wear a 3 piece patch on the back of the vest. If there's no bottom rocker, it's probably just a bunch of dentists and store clerks out playing thug on the weekend.

 

This fight was over turf (Texas). The Bandidos have claimed Texas as their turf for many years. The other club is a support club for the Hells Angels. It mostly comes down to controlling the drug trade.

[Sparky Nelson]

Seize and sell, please.

 

That's fine until Bubba gets out of prison and comes looking for his ride. I have no objections to defending myself with lethal force, but hunting over bait doesn't seem sporting.

[Utah Bob #35998]

That's fine until Bubba gets out of prison and comes looking for his ride. I have no objections to defending myself with lethal force, but hunting over bait doesn't seem sporting.

He'd just steal another.

[Blackwater 53393]

There are clubs that are just riding clubs and there are clubs that are violent organized crime gangs.

 

And Mussolini made the trains run on time and Hitler liked dogs.

Mussolinni and Hitler didn't do blood drives and Cancer society fund raisers and the bunch in our area does major work for abused and battered children, nor did they help rebuild wrecked or flooded homes like the Outlaws in our area did after the floods.

 

He'd just steal another.

 

 

Most of the ones I know own their rides legally and own their own homes and work every day at a legitimate job. There is one that I know who is the CEO of a major marketing company and several who have worked for the railroad for thirty or more years. Sure, there are a few who still deal drugs and an even smaller number who deal in worse than that, but to paint them all with that same brush of generally uninformed or prejudiced opinion is just as unfair as what the gun grabbers do to us every time a random shot is fired!!!

 

To my knowledge the Pagans and the Bandidos have never signed the treaty that was signed by the Outlaws and the Angels and several other national clubs. They are the two most off the charts gangs out there.

 

I don't go along with some of the things they do, but I don't go along with some of the stuff some of our police officers do either.

 

I don't go along with broad generalizations.

[Trailrider #896]

Waco? Wacko!

[Professor Tull, SASS #66742]

The Twin Peaks ["breastaurant"] has been a hang out for various MC's in the Waco area for quite a while. I find it somewhat ironic that the local Law Enforcement took this particular Sunday to be camped out in force in the immediate vicinity.

 

What did they know? What was their intel? Could it have been a setup? Instigated by some undercover LE officer?

 

I agree with Blackwater. We only hear about the negatives, done by a minority of club members, not the positives. Immediately after Katrina, nobody mentions all the Bandidos MC, Galloping Gooses MC, Sons of Silence MC members, who were riding into the destruction of the coast to deliver medications [heart meds, insulin, etc.], messages, supplies to those who were trapped or afraid to leave their damaged property.

 

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next few weeks.

 

Tull

99%NFG

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

The other clubs were the cossack and scimatars.I have never heard of them,They must be support clubs to the better known clubs

[Utah Bob #35998]

A lot of muderous mafia bosses are very well liked in certain neighborhoods because they give money to the churches, schools and community projects.

They are still very bad people.

Some towns in Mexico are under the protection of drug cartels.

There are even Iraqis who say things are better in their town now that ISIS is in charge.

As far asclubs go, we are talking about the worst outlaw ones. The ones who steal and kill without a second thought. They make millions off drugs and prostitution. They ruin lives and are a drain on the economy. Not my opinion. Fact.

I don't care if the sponsor a toy run or occasionally help an old lady across the street.

[Professor Tull, SASS #66742]

The meeting was a coalition of Texas biker clubs, set up to discuss issues directly relating to ALL motorcycle clubs, and NOT differences between individual clubs. The coalition had used Twin Peaks as its meeting place before, with no problems having occurred in previous meetings.

 

The clubs included and present at this meeting, were Vaqueros MC, Rebel Riders MC, Bandidos MC, Gypsy MC, some local club with a patch similar to the 'Laffing Devil MC' of reality tv fame, 2 clubs with origins in Viet Nam era membership [but not the Viet Nam Vets MC], and possibly Boozefighter MC and Shamrock MC.

The Cossacks MC and their sister club the Scimitars, were not on the invitation list.

 

If Law Enforcement was aware of the Cossack/Scimitar intention of crashing the meeting - and it appears they were, or they would not have had as many officers standing by as they did - why did they not prevent the Cossack/Scimitar's from attending, and thus preventing the melee which ensued?

 

And the plot thickens . . . . . . . . .

[Sedalia Dave]

The issue is that not all MC clubs are bad. There are significantly more MC clubs that are not involved in illegal activities than those that are. Way too many people tend to lump all MC clubs into the outlaw biker bucket and for us riders that are not outlaws it is really really annoying.

As Blackwater stated the vast majority of MC clubs are not into illegal activities and do a lot of good community service within their communities. Outlaw clubs can occasionally come together and provide community service but that does not excuse their lawlessness. BTW You might be suprised to learn that the Yakuza provided as much if not more disaster relief in the days immediately after the 2011 tsunami in Japan than the Japanese government. Without them the death toll would have been a lot higher.

If you want become educated about the history of MC clubs, riding groups, outlaw bikers, and their differences this is a good explanation. If you are ever thinking of riding a MC this website is a must read.

I’ll try to summarize below.

In addition to the MC clubs you also have Riding Groups. There are several differences but the most significant is that Riding Groups are open to anyone. Show up, pay your dues, and you are a member. Example of riding groups are the Harley Owners Group (HOG) and the Gold Wing Road Riders Association (GWRRA), and ABATE to name a few. All that is required for membership is to show up, meet the groups requirements, pay your dues and obey the bylaws.
Riding Goups usually but not always have a club or organization logo. They may or may not have a top rocker denoting a specific chapter within the organization. They will NEVER have a bottom rocker. Some riding groups are politically focused on Motorcycle Rights (MRO) much like the NRA is focused on the 2nd amendment.

On the other hand, you have to be invited to join a MC club. You then have a probationary period where the club's officers evaluate you. Some form of hazing is not uncommon as part of the probationary period. If you live up to the standards of the club, then you are allowed to become a patched member. If not, you are sent packing. All MC clubs have a logo that is the center piece of their club vest. They will have a top rocker denoting the specific chapter the member belongs to. They will also have a lower rocker denoting their clubs location or territory. The three patch pieces together are commonly known as colors.

While many MC clubs are a boys only organization there are several that are ladies only clubs and some that allow either sex to be patched members.

The vast majority of MC clubs are not much different than the Elks, Masons, college fraternaties, or any other group that has an initiation rite and strict criteria for membership. You also cannot judge the club by its name. Some outlaw clubs have very friendly sounding names. Some national clubs also contain a few local chapters that have been corrupted by a few bad apples.

MC clubs often band together and create a central organization known as the Confederation of Clubs (CoC). The CoCs main goal is to facilitate communication between the various clubs within its region. CoCs meet on a regular basis and it is considered very bad form for any one in attendance have interpersonal conflicts at these meetings. Consider that there is at least one CoC in every state with some states having several, most meet several times a year and until last week many of your were unaware they even existed.

 

Just as a few bad law enforcement officers are making the news and giving all LEOs a lot of unwarranted negative publicity. The few outlaw MC clubs give all MC riders an undeserved bad reputation.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Mussolinni and Hitler didn't do blood drives and Cancer society fund raisers and the bunch in our area does major work for abused and battered children, nor did they help rebuild wrecked or flooded homes like the Outlaws in our area did after the floods.

 

 

 

Most of the ones I know own their rides legally and own their own homes and work every day at a legitimate job. There is one that I know who is the CEO of a major marketing company and several who have worked for the railroad for thirty or more years. Sure, there are a few who still deal drugs and an even smaller number who deal in worse than that, but to paint them all with that same brush of generally uninformed or prejudiced opinion is just as unfair as what the gun grabbers do to us every time a random shot is fired!!!

 

To my knowledge the Pagans and the Bandidos have never signed the treaty that was signed by the Outlaws and the Angels and several other national clubs. They are the two most off the charts gangs out there.

 

I don't go along with some of the things they do, but I don't go along with some of the stuff some of our police officers do either.

 

I don't go along with broad generalizations.

Blackwater..Well said mate, totally agree with 'ya

[Utah Bob #35998]

 

If Law Enforcement was aware of the Cossack/Scimitar intention of crashing the meeting - and it appears they were, or they would not have had as many officers standing by as they did - why did they not prevent the Cossack/Scimitar's from attending, and thus preventing the melee which ensued?

 

And the plot thickens . . . . . . . . .

How do you legally prevent people from attending a meeting?

[Smoken D]

 

If Law Enforcement was aware of the Cossack/Scimitar intention of crashing the meeting - and it appears they were, or they would not have had as many officers standing by as they did - why did they not prevent the Cossack/Scimitar's from attending, and thus preventing the melee which ensued?

 

And the plot thickens . . . . . . . . .

 

Law Enforcement may shoot at this public range, but no, S.A.S.S. groups may not shoot at this public range.

See any problem with that, I sure do. ACLU may even get on that one.

[Ramblin Gambler]

Gypsies were there? I'll have to call a guy I used to work with who rode with the gypsies. I'm not sure if the gypsies were a gang or a riding group. He called them a riding club. He said most of them had white collar jobs during the week, but they had officers and my friend was a Sergeant at arms (which he said meant it was his job to bust heads if a member was having problems while they were out). But, I do know the gypsies were respected enough that the banditos allowed them a territory where they could fly their colors. Apparently that's a big deal. Even a Hell's Angel has to remove his colors when riding through texas unless he has permission from the baditos.

 

Someone commented early on that obviously a meeting of bikers would end like this, and I'd like to point out that not only was this the 3rd one Twin Peaks had hosted, but there are multiple bike rallies across the country every year that don't seem to end in bloodbaths. Do members of gangs not go to motorcycle rallies?

 

Oh and I thought the 1% thing was actually 1% of 1%. There was a documentary that said something along the lines of 1% of motorcyclists are in a club and 1% of those are dangerous. The big clubs latched onto that, so when someone is wearing a 1% of 1% patch, they're saying they are one of the dangerous ones. My understanding is that the patch has to be earned. Probably by killing someone.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I suspect most people, like me, have very little contact with motorcycle gangs. When we do see them with their intimidating attire, we think that those folks should be avoided as they don't look like nice people. True or not, this Waco story just reinforces that trepidation.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I can say one thing. The PIO for Waco PD is one long winded sonofagun.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

How do you legally prevent people from attending a meeting?

UB nailed it, you can't.

[Ramblin Gambler]

Just talked to my friend, and I was mistaken about the gypsies. They are definitely a 1% club, but when he was with them they were trying to clean up their image and the group he ran with were all spineless. He said they're actually an international club. It was pretty interesting talking to him about his motorcylce gang back in the day. He let me in on a lot of the politics and inner workings that goes on which I never would have guessed at. Reminded me of when I learned about the "civilized" indian tribes.