Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Mussolinni and Hitler didn't do blood drives and Cancer society fund raisers and the bunch in our area does major work for abused and battered children, nor did they help rebuild wrecked or flooded homes like the Outlaws in our area did after the floods. Most of the ones I know own their rides legally and own their own homes and work every day at a legitimate job. There is one that I know who is the CEO of a major marketing company and several who have worked for the railroad for thirty or more years. Sure, there are a few who still deal drugs and an even smaller number who deal in worse than that, but to paint them all with that same brush of generally uninformed or prejudiced opinion is just as unfair as what the gun grabbers do to us every time a random shot is fired!!! To my knowledge the Pagans and the Bandidos have never signed the treaty that was signed by the Outlaws and the Angels and several other national clubs. They are the two most off the charts gangs out there. I don't go along with some of the things they do, but I don't go along with some of the stuff some of our police officers do either. I don't go along with broad generalizations. I am not making a broad generalization about bikers, just about the outlaw clubs that are known to be violent organized crime gangs. Hey give all bikers a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Seize and sell, please. I assume you mean after they're convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I assume you mean after they're convicted. That's understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 My understanding is that the patch has to be earned. Probably by killing someone. Not necessarily by killing someone. There are other deeds that will earn you that patch. I received an ITCOB patch from a gang and wasn't even a member. Wasn't for any dastardly activity, but it was earned nonetheless. Don'r even know where it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling Stone Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The issue is that not all MC clubs are bad. ... If you want become educated about the history of MC clubs, riding groups, outlaw bikers, and their differences this is a good explanation. If you are ever thinking of riding a MC this website is a must read. ........... Just as a few bad law enforcement officers are making the news and giving all LEOs a lot of unwarranted negative publicity. The few outlaw MC clubs give all MC riders an undeserved bad reputation. I went to the link and read until my eyes crossed. I've ridden bikes since 1964 and never knew there were that many rules. What in the world happened to "Free". I like to tune out everything but the ride and enjoy that. These dudes have more rules than "Obama Care". Looks to me like an excuse to be "diss'ed by anyone at any time if they so please. Sad day. I hope there is some kind of Justice, eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Motorcycle Clubs (Gangs) seem to have as many rituals, rules and symbolism as the British monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 How do you legally prevent people from attending a meeting? Utah Bob, You do what Law Enforcement has been doing since the 60's to disrupt activities of biker clubs, or large groups of bikers. They pull over the entire group [for motorcycle equipment violations, loud pipes, whatever], and proceed to check every member for proper license, registration, and insurance. Then check every bike for altered numbers, working lights, inspection stickers. By the time the LEO's are through checking the bikes and members, the coalition meeting is over at Twin Peaks. Everybody goes home . . . no shots fired. I can speculate on why the Cossacks MC were allowed to attend an event, where it was known in advance they would be a disruptive influence, but I hesitate to do so. There are still 9 dead, and it appears as though there may have been a way to prevent the violence. Unofficially the dead include one Bandido MC, and 8 Cossack MC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Oh and I thought the 1% thing was actually 1% of 1%. There was a documentary that said something along the lines of 1% of motorcyclists are in a club and 1% of those are dangerous. The big clubs latched onto that, so when someone is wearing a 1% of 1% patch, they're saying they are one of the dangerous ones. My understanding is that the patch has to be earned. Probably by killing someone. Ramblin Gambler, The 1%er patch worn by members of most of the MAJOR 1% clubs - Hells Angels MC, Outlaws MC, Bandidos MC/MG, Galloping Gooses MC, Sons Of Silence MC, Mongols MC, Devils Disciples MC, Warlocks MC - is earned at the time the prospect becomes a member. It is a part of their membership into the club, along with the patch, top rocker, bottom rocker. It is earned by being on call 24 hours a day, anywhere from 12 to 18 months. It is the other patches/pins that denote specific acts done in the service to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK ADDER Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The other clubs were the cossack and scimatars.I have never heard of them,They must be support clubs to the better known clubs Major - Cossacks have been a stand alone club since the late 60s or early 70s. They have recently taken to courting the Hells Angels, for support in their territorial issues with the Bandidos. But the Angels have so far been reluctant to involve themselves - especially in Texas. For the news media and police to characterize the Cossacks/Scimitars as having an affiliation with the Hells Angels, is another attempt at sensationalizing and already tragic event. B Adder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 To my knowledge the Pagans and the Bandidos have never signed the treaty that was signed by the Outlaws and the Angels and several other national clubs. They are the two most off the charts gangs out there. What I find interesting, is that it was the Bandido national president who was the initial architect of the treaty you mention Blackwater. He also tried to move the national chapter location from Texas, to the northwest (Washington or Oregon). This obviously did not sit well with the Texas members, and he was removed from his role of leadership, and the Bandidos dropped out of any confederation/coalition dealing with MC rights - except at a state level. The Pagans ? ? ? ? ? ? Like you said, "off the charts." I would also like to correct an earlier statement I made about the clubs in attendance. There were at least 3 members of the Viet Nam Vets MC present [i had stated that there were none at this meeting]. Those 3 VNV MC members were among the 170+ arrested. This past weekend here in Jackson, MS., the local Harley shop hosted the "Trail of Honor" - a tribute to veterans of the U.S. military. I counted at least 26 different MC clubs having representatives in attendance. Six 1%er clubs were there - Bandidos, Outlaws, Sons of Silence, Galloping Gooses, Chosen Few, and Warlocks - ALL, at one time or another have had territorial differences with each other. But this weekend, the talk was motorcycles and shared combat experiences. Plus, the 1%er's were instrumental in taking up collections that allowed at least 5 partially disabled Viet Nam vets to get a ride in one of the two Cobra helicopters that were there. "When they do bad, no one forgets - when they do good, no one remembers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sarge Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I assume you mean after they're convicted. Not necessarily. The forfeiture process is civil. I've seen numerous cases where assets were forfeited in civil court but the person was not convicted in criminal court. Also at one point in Mississippi, forfeitures were deemed double jeopardy under case law. At that time, an agency had to determine whether to pursue forfeiture or criminal charges. Thankfully, that has been rectified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Not necessarily. The forfeiture process is civil. I've seen numerous cases where assets were forfeited in civil court but the person was not convicted in criminal court. Also at one point in Mississippi, forfeitures were deemed double jeopardy under case law. At that time, an agency had to determine whether to pursue forfeiture or criminal charges. Thankfully, that has been rectified Yeah! About that forfeiture thing. The courts recently ordered some of the police and law enforcement organizations that have been making national news with seizures and resulting "forfeiture proceedings" to cease and desist. There has been enough money and property improperly confiscated without due process and in lieu of any criminal charges around here to have justified RICO charges except for the racketeers being law enforcement and local court systems. They like to grab large amounts of cash and high end cars with absolutely no other evidence of any wrong-doing except that their victims own them. One example was a gentleman traveling to purchase expensive cars. He was carrying several hundred thousand dollars in cash, the stuff that you buy cars with. It has taken him a couple of years and thousands of dollars to get his money back and he still hasn't recovered it all, nor have the courts seen fit to require the offenders to refund his costs. It's happening all over the country, but seems to get little to no press coverage. I'm not singling anyone out here, but this is another example of painting a certain group with a broad brush despite the fact that few deserve the labeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yeah! About that forfeiture thing. The courts recently ordered some of the police and law enforcement organizations that have been making national news with seizures and resulting "forfeiture proceedings" to cease and desist. There has been enough money and property improperly confiscated without due process and in lieu of any criminal charges around here to have justified RICO charges except for the racketeers being law enforcement and local court systems. They like to grab large amounts of cash and high end cars with absolutely no other evidence of any wrong-doing except that their victims own them. One example was a gentleman traveling to purchase expensive cars. He was carrying several hundred thousand dollars in cash, the stuff that you buy cars with. It has taken him a couple of years and thousands of dollars to get his money back and he still hasn't recovered it all, nor have the courts seen fit to require the offenders to refund his costs. It's happening all over the country, but seems to get little to no press coverage. I'm not singling anyone out here, but this is another example of painting a certain group with a broad brush despite the fact that few deserve the labeling. If you are not familiar with the Civil forfeiture process as it exists today you are in for an startling wakeup call. Suggest you all look into the process and lobby your elected representative to put a stop to this un-constitutional legal loop hole. Sounds like a good way to get the bad guy until it is you that has suddenly become the victim. Stopping the abuse of civil forfeiture by the Washington Post Civil Forfeiture: A Threat to Private Property and the Impartial Pursuit of Justice Civil forfeiture—where the government can take and sell your property without ever convicting or even charging you with a crime—is one of the greatest threats to property rights in the nation today. Civil forfeiture cases proceed against one’s cash, cars, or home, which means that property owners receive few if any of the protections that criminal defendants enjoy. To make matters worse, when law-enforcement agencies take and sell your property, they frequently get to keep all the proceeds for their own use. This gives agencies a direct financial incentive to “police for profit” by seizing and forfeiting as much property as possible. What Is Civil Forfeiture and Where Did It Come From? Civil forfeiture is a legal fiction that pretends to try inanimate objects for their involvement with criminal activity. Civil forfeiture actions are in rem proceedings, which means “against a thing.” That is why civil forfeiture proceedings have bizarre titles, such as United States v. $35,651.11 in U.S. Currency or State of Texas v. One 2004 Chevrolet Silverado. . Read more at End Civil Forfeture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Not necessarily. The forfeiture process is civil. I've seen numerous cases where assets were forfeited in civil court but the person was not convicted in criminal court. Also at one point in Mississippi, forfeitures were deemed double jeopardy under case law. At that time, an agency had to determine whether to pursue forfeiture or criminal charges. Thankfully, that has been rectified Suggest you get familiar with the civil forfeiture process as it is currently being used in the United States and ask yourself would you like it to happen to you? Because as the law currently stands it most assuredly can. Read the links I posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Mussolinni and Hitler didn't do blood drives and Cancer society fund raisers and the bunch in our area does major work for abused and battered children, nor did they help rebuild wrecked or flooded homes like the Outlaws in our area did after the floods. Most of the ones I know own their rides legally and own their own homes and work every day at a legitimate job. There is one that I know who is the CEO of a major marketing company and several who have worked for the railroad for thirty or more years. Sure, there are a few who still deal drugs and an even smaller number who deal in worse than that, but to paint them all with that same brush of generally uninformed or prejudiced opinion is just as unfair as what the gun grabbers do to us every time a random shot is fired!!! To my knowledge the Pagans and the Bandidos have never signed the treaty that was signed by the Outlaws and the Angels and several other national clubs. They are the two most off the charts gangs out there. I don't go along with some of the things they do, but I don't go along with some of the stuff some of our police officers do either. I don't go along with broad generalizations. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 If you are not familiar with the Civil forfeiture process as it exists today you are in for an startling wakeup call. Suggest you all look into the process and lobby your elected representative to put a stop to this un-constitutional legal loop hole. Sounds like a good way to get the bad guy until it is you that has suddenly become the victim. Stopping the abuse of civil forfeiture by the Washington Post Thanks for reinforcing my statement, Dave. I've become familiar with this recently because it has made major news here in middle Tennessee. The example I gave of the car collector is just one of many that has occurred close by. Since, until recently, I often carried relatively large, (nothing like these others mentioned) amounts of money at times when traveling for business, I worried that these, basically licensed criminals, would try to stop me. It does appear that they were preying on mostly out of state travelers. I'm sure the logic was that folks from out of state were less likely to pursue legal recourse because of the expense of travel and the likely need for local legal representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sarge Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I didn't intend for my post about civil forfeiture to seem negative about law enforcement. I was trying to state forfeiture of assets is civil and can be done without conviction of criminal charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Trampas, SASS # 55781 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I would never have thought this would happen during the day, clubs usually try to keep quiet and do their thing against each other without the public involved, I'm sure this will bring the heat down on other clubs thru out all the states or at least the law will keep their eyes open on what is going on. For all of you going to Sturgis this year, keep your eyes open, all of the clubs will be there, normally not to much trouble but there have been instances where there has been. After this in Waco I'm sure Sturgis will be on the outlook as they usually are to keep the 99% percent safe. All for now JD Trampas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashknife Cowboy Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 To all the Law Enforcement Officers that have had to respond, sort out, manage chaos and investigate this mess, I commend you! Stay safe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 To all the Law Enforcement Officers that have had to respond, sort out, manage chaos and investigate this mess, I commend you! Stay safe..... Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossMunny Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 One thing that's forgotten here, in stating that not all 1%ers are bad people is the fact that if you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. Meaning, you hang around violent people, violence is gonna happen. If I'd have been at a restaurant with my family (wouldn't have my family at Twin Peaks) and seen all these "1%ers" showing up, I'd have collected my family and split. Not to say they would have targeted my family out of meanness, but if they start shooting at each other, stray bullets are just that, stray bullets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The only "colors" that I could read on Fox News was a Vietnam Veteran vest. Are we a gang? Yep, there is a MC gang using that moniker. Many years ago I was at a MC swap meet in Mpls and the Vietnam Vets got in a fight with the local Hell's Angels, the Vets got their a$$ handed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Trampas, SASS # 55781 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I just read on the harley forum that I go to that a 65 year old purple heart marine was killed, he was not a member of any club, he was talking to one of the club members in the parking lot that he knew, he had I believe 9 kids and quite a few grandkids . Guess he was in the wrong place, I know they said all were gang members that were killed but he isn't one of the gang members. I guess the news media wants to put it out all were gang members. I don't know how to post the place it was posted but it the latino fox news that did the reporting on this. Also read that those killed were killed with rifle bullets, I'm sure no gang members were carrying rifles. All for now JD Trampas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK ADDER Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 DELETED - link would not pull up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Post #56,,, ," when you sleep with dogs..." Pretty much sums it up for me. As far as the Purple Heart Marine getting killed, he slept to close to the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Come to think of it, I like most dogs better than I like most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossMunny Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Come to think of it, I like most dogs better than I like most people. Pick your dog wisely. It could come back and bite you,,,, both breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Loco Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Don't believe everything you see on Television. It was an only way out for three federal agents to move into witness protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Supposedly, Approx 1% of the biker population is considered "Outlaws" My understanding is that they control 80+% of the wealth and don't pay their fair share. They ride bikes and grow beards to fly under the radar and launder money. They use aliases such as Dinky, Bobo and Griz as alter egos to the greedy capitalist they are. This shootout was probably over a hostile corporate takeover or business merger that went wrong. Stock options or under/over valuing a business are two likely culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It comes down to really just a few things. There are some BAD and DANGEROUS MC clubs out there. And even they do some really good things at times. Will help others. Then hurt another. But mostly there own kind. Others in there club that cross them. Or other 1% clubs. Just the way it is. There was some GOOD clubs that don't do any of that bad stuff. But get lumped into this mess just because they are a MC Club. And if you have some known 1%er clubs. Getting together to hash out boundary issues???? THAT is a red flag that trouble could or could not come up. But a good chance it could. Not the time to go visit your bubby. (just my opinion) And a good time for police to be on the alert. But by no means should every MC Club be linked to this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/ The plot thickens. To quote Waco PD - "all bikers were members of outlaw organizations" . . . . right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 link will not pull up At the bottom of the above article, click on the link to Wako Wakeup, for a list of the other dangerous clubs participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/ The plot thickens. To quote Waco PD - "all bikers were members of outlaw organizations" . . . . right ! Just shows what a misleading media, incorrect assumptions, and ignorant preconceived notions can lead to. Way more to this than meets the unsuspecting eye. Some truly dangerous gangs on that list!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossMunny Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/ The plot thickens. To quote Waco PD - "all bikers were members of outlaw organizations" . . . . right ! I'd say there were absolutely some ignorant assumptions made. AK47's? Ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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