DocWard Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 http://p2t2solutions.com/fbi-finally-decides-on-standard-service-rounds-for-its-use/ Let the discussion begin... Edit: The original source appears to be down due to a server problem. Chief Rick was good enough to track alternate sources down and post them, so I thought I would go ahead and post them here in the OP. http://looserounds.c...ining-division/ http://www.policeone...ol-caliber-war/ http://www.grandview...h.gI8p3jzC.dpbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well, it don't start with a 4 so I think I would pass, but that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Milo Talon SASS #23163 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I had a 9mm. Had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 >The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)< Based on that criteria, let's arm 'em with a 22 short. Betcha they'll be both faster and more accurate with that then they would with a 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Jack Hammer Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Someone once asked me why I carry .45 (1911) off and on duty, I said it's because they don't make a .46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 One retired LEO on another site I'm on said" If you hit'em with a .45, they don't get back up and shoot at you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I use to be a BIG supporter of the .45 ACP for carry. AND, I still think its boss, except for a couple nice 10mm on the market. PLUS, I always found the .45 to be VERY accurate, atleast in the 1911's I was shooting. But bullet design and materials for all our calibers have been greatly enhanced and the 9mm (in my opinion) has gained some ground in efficiency. And it also seems the accuracy of some 9's have gotten better, atleast those few I've shot lately. ANYHOW, I now carry a 13 round (flush fitting magazine) Springfield XD Mod 2 in 9mm that is soooo eeeeZZZ to carry and dead on accurate with its intended purposes......CQB. And it also comes with a 16/17 round extended mag that I really don't use. Its not only accurate, but it's weight and grip design seem to minimize any perceived recoil and has become a really good pistol to practice with and carry. When I know the chips are down, I'll be cuddling my Mossberg 930 with it reflex sight system. But for a good, accurate, controllable, multi-round carry pistol (that I have found 100% reliable so far), for now will be my Springfield XD Mod 2 in 9mm. p.s. - I own NO stock or franchise in Springfield nor have ANY association with them or any of their employees, other than owning only 1 of their products. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_slinger Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I have pistols in 45acp, revolvers in 45 Colt and a J frame in 357 mag, and 2 9mm's. 90% of the time, I carry a S&W Shield in 9mm. Why? it's light, easy to carry and as accurate as any of my 45's. I figure if I can't stop the bad guy with 8 124 +P JHP's i'm in for a very bad day. Truth be told, all things being equal between 357 mag, 45ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm, I'm going to choose the 12 gauge every time. Just a tad hard to conceal carry most of the scatter guns. GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 At the end of the day they just have to find a justification for spending more taxpayer money. In a few years they will go back the other way. Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I wouldn't want to get shot with any caliber. Good luck to the FBI, nothing wrong with a 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 "Promises made. gifts exchanged." Government procurement at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 You just have to hit the target near the middle. Hornady makes a very effective 9mm law enforcement round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panhandle Paladin Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I have heard that some law enforcement agencies are going to the .357 Sig semi auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Interresting that wear from the 40 was decisive. My P.D. issued S&W 4026 I used in USPSA and have well over 10,000 rounds through all the original parts. Still going strong and very accurate. Very interresting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Paso Bob, SASS # 71572 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I was issued a Beretta 92fs which I carried for years. Retired I carry a Glock 26. I practice pulling and shooting often and I spend the money for the best carry ammo. 9mm is fine for me. Ain't saying what u should carry, just saying what I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 If the FBI recommends it I don't want it. TV aside I could never understand why people think they are the experts at anything. If you think they are experts go back and look at the Miami shootings not much has changed the 9mm failed them there and will fail them again. These are the same fools that thought the full power 10mm was a good thing. If I wanted to see what real world police shootings entailed and what works and doesn't work I'd look at New York or LA, they average more police involved shootings in a year than the FBI has had in it's history. Remember a 45 starts at where a 9mm most times fails to finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 One retired LEO on another site I'm on said" If you hit'em with a .45, they don't get back up and shoot at you" My dad used to know an FBI agent, the agent said he switched to a .45 because he point blanked someone with a 9mm and they kept on coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Interresting that wear from the 40 was decisive. My P.D. issued S&W 4026..... I had an instructor recommend a .40 because it is bigger than a 9mm and holds more bullets than a .45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well, I am no expert and have zero experience in shoot outs with bad guys. My hat is off to all those that have, and do. I also have had zero experience with a 9 mm. That said, I want all the advantage I can get if the SHTF. I tend to agree with what others have said, the promise was made, the deal was signed and a kiss on the cheek and everybody went home happy, except the taxpayers. What ever works best for the FBI Agent in the field is fine with me. I just believe that the two rules that should apply are: 1. Always bring enough gun. 2. Never bring a knife to a gun fight, if you can avoid it. I do have to say that I have been impressed with my Springfield 1911. It is not a 9 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Like BMC said... First rule of a gun fight is, to bring a gun. After that, it's what you shoot best. 9MM and .45 will both kill. One kills a little faster. Neither round is a true "one shot stop" round. I don't personally believe anything under about a .30 "rifle" round, or a shotgun, would stop anyone dead in their tracks. So it's about shot placement... So carry what you shoot best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 A pistol is a weapon of convenience. It is not the best choice if you know there is going to be shooting. Most of those FBI agents in the 1986 Miami shootout were carrying S&W revolvers and went up against determined bank robbers with rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 There were many factors in the Miami shoot debacle, not just the caliber of weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yes there were, lousy tactics and training were as big a factor as poor ammo choice. How stupid was it to lay your gun on the seat of your moving car? That works every time. So blind without your glasses you can't see well enough to shoot, and why were the Miami police not on he scene at the time of the takedown. But even with all that, one of the shooters took a lethal hit from a 9mm without slowing him down. Like most cops we studied the Miami shootout as a way not to do things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coho Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I’ve always believed in carrying the largest caliber one can handle. That said, a bulky firearm is more likely to be left at home. So every individual person and situation may require a different tool. This just means I need more guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Practice, practice, practice. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Practice, practice, practice. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement +1000 Spine, plus or minus an inch or two each direction, pelvis, skull. A bullet making contact with any large bone mass will usually drop the target. And, there are more nerve endings in one square inch of the intestines than there are in the rest of the body. Pelvis is a good "stop" shot. Not always lethal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ... Truth be told, all things being equal between 357 mag, 45ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm, I'm going to choose the 12 gauge every time. Just a tad hard to conceal carry most of the scatter guns. GS That is why God invented Guitar Cases :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Practice, practice, practice. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement +1,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 PRACTICE? NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 PRACTICE? NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING! I never practice......for SASS matches that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I never practice......for SASS matches that is. No need to, when you are already great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Link doesn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Everyone KNOWS a handgun , is just a tool to fight your way back to a long gun and a plan only lasts til first contact CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 No need to, when you are already great. TThat is my opinion also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Link doesn't work for me. It was working fine. Now I'm getting a server maintenance message. I don't know if it will come back up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.